Hammond SKX + Lester K + 11-pin connector

[SMcD]

I'm looking at doing some pretty substantial rig upgrades soon, and among the things I'd like to beef up is my Hammond sound. I bought an SKX back in March, and as happy as I am with it, I'd love to get one of those external Leslie sims everyone's always talking about.

 

The current frontrunner is the Lester K, because I don't love the lack of easily-accessible controls (especially for drive) on the Mini Vent. However, I'd like to be able to route the organ sound through the Lester while having the extra voices bypass it. To my knowledge, the lack of any hard panning on the SKX means that the only way to do this is to send the organ through the 11-pin output.

 

I know that adapters exist so an 11-pin output can be sent to a 1/4" input (e.g. https://www.bborgan.com/products/copy-of-11-pin-to-dual-1-4-studio-12-cable). However, I also know that there's some sort of voltage magic that happens with the 11-pin connector. My idea would be to connect the Audio jack into the Lester K input, while leaving the Speed jack dangling (I can just stomp the button to toggle speed, and the Lester K doesn't have an input for it anyway).

 

Would this work? Will I fry something if I try?

[CEB]

I don’t know for sure.  Bill Brown will probably know.  Last time I had a question I couldn’t get anyone to answer the phone at Addison.  
 

I have a cable I use for this on my SKX. Bruce Wahler made it for my XK-3c system. It has a 12v power supply that sends voltage into pin 11( I think it’s 11). The voltage tells the organ there is a cabinet plugged in and it disables the internal sim.   The mini vent is in my rack and Ashby installed the remote mod in the Mini Vent so I operate the Vent with the SKX’s half moon switch.  
 

This incoming voltage is the old Hammond system.  I do not know if the SKX needs the incoming voltage or not.  If not the studio 12 cable would be a lot more handy. 
 

I would inquire with on this. You could ask Bill Brown or try to contact Ray Gerlich is he is still with Hammond … or just buy one and try it, you won’t hurt anything. 

[SMcD]

I'm in Canada, so not sure that Ashby's an option for me, unless Bruce delivers across the border.

 

Is Bill Brown a member of the forum?

[CEB]

Ashby doesn’t do these cables anymore.   Bill Brown is BB organ. He is the guy who answers the phone when I’ve called.  I don’t think he is on the forum. 

[SMcD]

Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

 

...and had I taken a closer look at the link I posted, I would've seen this on the page:

 

"* Use with Hammond XK3, XK-3C, and XK5 (not for SKX)"

 

Damn. Any other ideas?

[Baldwin Funster]

Sadly Ashbys doesn't do Ashbys anymore. Website has been taken down. Bruce has left the building.

[SMcD]

Well, damn. That lack of hard panning on the SKX is looking like more and more of a deficit all the time.

 

Guess I'll email BB organ to find out exactly why their cable shouldn't be used with the SKX.

 

There's a local guy here, name of Don Voth, who's a wizard with pretty much everything involving keyboards and electricity. He'll be my next stop.

[dfcas]

Just to Confirm, you have an SKX, not an SKX Pro ?

[SMcD]

Correct.

[Stokely]

Ah, I was coming in to say I don't think the Lester K is an improvement, but I don't know the SKX.  I own a Lester K, barely used (and probably going to be sold soon) as it was intended for use with a Kurzweil.   I also have an SK pro and Nord Stage 3 since then and both work fine for me as-is....though I will say the Lester K is certainly *different*.   I could see someone liking it better as it's just a way different sound.   It's been so long since I played the real deal that my reference for authenticity is recordings so I just go by what I like (and also consider convenience).

[CEB]

Personally … I own both an SKX and a Lester K. I bought the Lester K when my Vent was down and I was using an XK3.   The Lester goes on my guitar board occasionally. I would never bother with running the SKX through title but that’s just me.  

[SMcD]

I must say, I'm surprised - I would've thought the SKX would need the Lester K more than the XK3, given that the latter has a tube preamp.

[SMcD]

Y'know, maybe I'm overcomplicating this. The main deficit with the SKX's Leslie sim is the overdrive. If I just got a decent tube sim pedal, it'd address that and beef up the Clav and spare me from all this cable madness.

 

HOWEVER...then the rotary effect from the SKX would be before the drive in the signal chain, which is obviously backwards. Not sure how'd that mess with the sound. Plus, the idea of having independent effects chains for EV's and organ is still somewhat appealing to me. For instance: clav with external wah, leaving the expression pedal to control the Hammond without interactions.

 

Hmm.

[Stokely]

Yeah I came to that same conclusion.   I was interested (and still am, I'm curious about pedals as well despite feeling pretty good about the internal sims I have) but if you want to add overdrive like an organ grinder or even a guitar pedal then you'd need a leslie pedal to go after it.   Unless you have an insert ability in your keyboard I guess.

Pedals appeal and they seem like they'd be a lot of fun...but definitely going that way would not be making life simpler, and practically speaking for a classic rock band gig (like I do) I doubt anyone would really notice the difference.    I also complicate my life by going stereo when I can, mono when I can't and with a pedal rig that might get tricky.

[Jim Alfredson]

I don’t think the SKX needs the external voltage like the XK3c and others. But I need to make sure. I’ll look at the service manual. 
 

The external voltage is used to tell the organ that a Leslie is connected and thus the organ routes the signals accordingly. But the SK1 and SK2 use an 8pin DIN connector and are able to detect connection without an external voltage. 

[SMcD]

Yeah, there's a cable you can buy for the SK1/2 that goes from 8-pin to 1/4". Surprised nobody bothered to engineer an analogous thing for the 11-pin on the SKX.

 

Thanks Jim. Lemme know what you find out. If it doesn't need the external voltage, I assume my original plan to use the BB organ cable (letting the Speed jack dangle) will work? Or is that thing somehow sending voltage?

[Jim Alfredson]

Hammond does make a cable. 
 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XK3CtoStudio12--hammond-11-pin-xk-3c-to-studio12-cable-10-foot

[mcgoo]

7 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Hammond does make a cable. 
 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XK3CtoStudio12--hammond-11-pin-xk-3c-to-studio12-cable-10-foot

 

I got that Hammond - Studio 12 cable for my SKX, wanting to send the organ signal to my Ventilator and control the speed from the organ. I had a tech reverse the wiring (I had read that was necessary for the vent), but unfortunately the audio doesn't pass thru the leslie jack. 

[Jim Alfredson]

Ok I looked at the service manual for the SKX and yes, the 11pin needs the Leslie detect voltage to switch the relays in order to send the organ signal to the Leslie 11pin output.

So what you need is a cable that has audio output on a 1/4" connector and a 12vDC power supply for the Leslie detect signal, right? You don't need the switching 1/4" TRS. I can build that cable for you.

 

 

[SMcD]

Man, I love this forum. Thanks for the offer Jim.

 

However...I am re-re-re-thinking. 

 

To split the Hammond and clav is to add another channel on the mixer, buy separate pedals to put OD on both, and to make the rig dependent on one custom-made specialized cable (i.e. God help me if I lose it). As much as I wanted this idea to make sense, I'm increasingly in the "it doesn't" camp.

 

Instead, maybe what I'll do is keep the Hammond and clav combined, and buy one of the Tech 21 Sansamp offerings to beef them both up. I'm trying to decide between the Classic and the Para Driver DI.

 

Technically this will mean my Hammond chain is "incorrect", with distortion after the Leslie sim. I'm hoping that, with only a modest amount of drive, the pedal will nicely fatten up the Hammond without inducing too much throbby weirdness. Then the combination of pedal and onboard Leslie sim should give me enough options to crank the drive on clav, Hammond w/Leslie, and Hammond w/o Leslie as/when needed.

[Jim Alfredson]

Try the Wurli Grinder from Lounsberry. I love what it does to clav and the EPs. Sounds good on organ, too.

[SMcD]

Not bad, especially with shipping to Canada being only $22.

 

I see that the low end is tightened a bit compared to the organ grinder. Does that affect Hammond bass tones, in your experience? I'd still love to hit a low C and rattle some teeth 😎

[Stokely]

I see the lure of pedals even when they don't make sense from a convenience standpoint.

I've seen pro guitarists meddle with obvious unhappiness at their pedalboards for the better part of an evening.  They can be fiddly.  Then again, our guitarist's Axe3 wigged out (for lack of a better term) at a recent show and had to be rebooted.

I just borrowed an HX Stomp from a friend, which if I buy it ultimately might be used for some guitar if I can get the courage up.   In the meantime despite it being digital it might scratch the fun-with-pedals itch.  It'll be interesting to see how the Nord stage rhodes and clav might fare through some of the stomps/amps vs the built-in options, and I'm also interested in some of the reverbs (having a separate reverb would be handy, at some venues I want 0% reverb and if it's baked into the patches that becomes difficult.)  I watched some vids with some verbs they added (the Dynamic patches) that to my ear rivaled the boutique pedals I was considering.   We play a few slower/trippier tunes where it might be fun to experiment.    Unfortunately for delay/verb it would be best used on an fx send (from the Key Largo) but for stomps and amps it would be best to go direct into it.  I'll try it first just to see if the overdrives are better than the built-ins.

[Baldwin Funster]

Now you see one of the appeals of an ipad setup. Imagine any amount of effects before, after and even in-between multiple leslies with full midi control over any possible parameter. AUM with an iPad can do stuff that's so convoluted even steve porcaro might get stumped. And no hook up issues, no pedalboard, unless you want a multi footswitch midi switcher. You could even run it in conjunction with your real B.

Of course it's not as easy as just popping a phase pedal on your hardware KB, but that's not turning out to be so easy.