OT - Bratty kids in public places - finally, some places are fighting back

[surfergirl]

I was raised by my mom, and she was young when I was born. We were more like sisters 99% of the time, but she could be pretty tough the other 1%. When I was 12 I spent the money I had for school clothes on pedals at a pawnshop, I'm not sure who got worse of her wrath, me or the pawnshop owner. The second time was when she took away my surfboards, guitars and everything else till my grades got up. I now have a 13 year old living with me, and I kinda get it now. I threaten to send her back to Long Beach to go to a school she doesn't like, that usually works.

[Notes_Norton]

I got divorced, and my wife moved them >1500 miles away when the oldest was 10, so I didn't get the problem years. She married another guy, also named Bob, so he got the teenage tantrums.

 

I don't think the person with custody can move that far away anymore, but back then, there were no restrictions. She wanted to go back to her mom. Paying child support for children I couldn't visit irritated me, but that's way back in the past, and it's all healed. It was probably best for the children to be there, and that's the most important thing.

 

With my current Mrs. Notes it's, “No kids, no pool, no pets, no debts, no regrets.”

 

Notes ♫

[o0Ampy0o]

I am certain it takes a parent mindset to raise healthy children into adulthood. Most parents never graduated from being children. They are a minority but there is such a thing as a parent soul. They naturally have a rapport with children that establishes the alpha yet respects who and what the child is. Many problems stem from violations of ever shifting boundaries resulting from a failure to comprehend and define boundaries. If that is not accomplished and reinforced from the beginning, adjustments to growth in children will be far more turbulent. Children love parent souls. They see the best in them. That brings out their best behavior. The way to get a brat to behave is to treat them like they are already a well behaved child. Brats are miserable. They naturally feel healthier when they can behave in a healthier manner. The problem is that the guardian is unhealthy. If they were aware and willing to adjust themselves everyone around them would adjust in a healthy direction. It ends up falling on the individual and makes it difficult to have the influence required to turn the tide.

 

EDIT: I was in the parking lot of a store reading when I posted this earlier. On my way home I needed to add that I am not commenting on Surfergirl / Jenny's ❤️ situation although I had read it before making this post. In some cases the age of your parents does not interfere with them being parents. Not to say younger or older than average does not call attention to itself when you are doing school related things (i.e. "Is that your brother and sister?" "Are those your grandparents?"). It is the mindset and rapport that matters. An older sibling can act like a mentor and protector or they might act like they are younger than you. Even when your parents are average age or older than average they too can act more like your siblings in terms of rapport or maturity level.

[analogika]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:09 PM, Notes_Norton said:

There is a place between don't beat the child at all, and abuse the child. 

No. 

[David Emm]

I knew an LPN who said that before they got some words together, you occasionally had to swat that butt. "You have to get your fix in. Otherwise, they won't believe you as they get older and you'll have a real monster on your hands." I agree that physical action should be pointed and very limited, but you have to get real about how feral kids are until you set boundaries. They have to learn what No means or they'll go sour. Swat 'em away from the hot oven when they're pre-verbal toddlers, but make words do the job ASAP. If you keep hitting them, one day they'll shove you into that oven like a witch.

[Notes_Norton]

IMO, you have to get control of your children when they are young. If you spoil your children when they are young, they will be harder to socialize when they get older.

 

Mother cats and dogs nip their babies when they misbehave.

 

There are times for a spanking. But those situations should be when all else fails, or when particularly appropriate. It should be done calmly, lovingly, and definitely not with or in anger. You need to use the minimum force necessary, and absolutely only on their butts. I chose my bare hand, on their clothed bottom, knowing that if I hurt my hand, I was hitting too hard. I rarely needed this, but when I did, it worked.

 

My two children grew up to be responsible, well-adjusted, happy adults. My former wife and I can be proud of the job we did providing for, protecting, and socializing them.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

 

[jazzpiano88]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:41 AM, Notes_Norton said:

I got divorced, and my wife moved them >1500 miles away when the oldest was 10

 

That was clearly for the best.   Give my thanks to your wife in multitude!

[Anderton]

I was very (very) fortunate, and won at genetic roulette. My kid was born with a moral compass and smarts, so to my amazement and delight, no disciplining was ever necessary. However, early on I did make two Dad Rules that I made clear were absolutely 100% non-negotiable: never ride on a motorcycle, and never get involved with someone because they have "potential." (The latter was based on hearing too many kind-hearted people say things like "he has such potential...if only he wasn't a heroin addict.") I also thought about adding "don't fly in single-engine planes," but decided to pick my battles.

 

So far, the two rules have never been broken, and I don't think they ever will be. And my kid is skittish about single-engine planes anyway, so I didn't have to worry about that one.

[Notes_Norton]

A friend of ours who is a sailor and pilot just died in a single engine plane accident. He has thousands of hours in the air, and they suspect engine failure with no safe place to land.

 

I think from this day on, I will heed your single engine plane rule.

[Notes_Norton]

10 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

That was clearly for the best.   Give my thanks to your wife in multitude!

Best for me.

Thankfully for the children, my former wife and I agreed 100% with our parenting responsibility and discipline philosophy. The children did turn out well. Sadly, it was other things that tore us apart. We do remain friendly to this day.

 

What I was too young to know at the time was how to manage life as a musician living a night life, and having a wife living a day life. I tried working a day job, but to put it mildly, it wasn't making me happy.

 

I learned a musician should marry someone in the biz, and probably shouldn't have children.

 

The second time around, I got it right. I found someone in the biz, she is an incredible singer and she plays guitar and synth. We were in different bands when we met, both bands broke up at the same time, and we found ourselves in a 5-piece band together. We were best friends from day one, and 45 years later we're still best friends. 24/7/365 is not too much time to be together.

 

We work together in our duo http://www.s-cats.com and our Band-in-a-Box aftermarket products business https://www.nortonmusic.com and although not rich, we are 'living the dream'.

 

We have no kids, no pool, no pets, no debts and no regrets.

 

Notes ♫

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I think from this day on, I will heed your single engine plane rule.

 

Actually, that rule was passed on to me from my father, who was an aeronautical engineer. He knew his stuff! He was also a superb jazz drummer and consulted to NASA. I'll always wish he was around, until the day I'm not around anymore.

[o0Ampy0o]

The poster boy for potential if only he wasn't in love with drugs, Robert Downey Jr.. Lots of people rallied to assist him getting on track. It is wonderful seeing him shine, all things considered.

[ProfD]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:09 AM, Notes_Norton said:

A friend of ours who is a sailor and pilot just died in a single engine plane accident. He has thousands of hours in the air, and they suspect engine failure with no safe place to land.

Reads like he went out doing one of the things he loved to do.  Surely, every time he jumped into that cockpit he knew the risks involved. 😎

[David Emm]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:37 PM, o0Ampy0o said:

The poster boy for potential if only he wasn't in love with drugs, Robert Downey Jr.. Lots of people rallied to assist him getting on track. It is wonderful seeing him shine, all things considered.

 

 "Everyone can change their nature.
  Its what defines our species.
  Look at Iron Man, that actor was an animal in the 90s,
   literally waking up in bushes.
  His agent had to catch him with a butterfly net."
      ~ "Rick and Morty" 🤓

 

This is also where I highly recommend his turn as Charlie Chaplin, whom I admire immensely. He did Charlie proud. If you think you've known hard times, read Chaplin's "My Autobiogaphy." You'll feel ashamed to grouse for a week or so. He also wrote the scores for a couple of his last films, such as "Monsieur Verdoux."

[Notes_Norton]

20 hours ago, ProfD said:

Reads like he went out doing one of the things he loved to do.  Surely, every time he jumped into that cockpit he knew the risks involved. 😎

Definitely.

 

He was a daring guy, and crossed the Pacific in small sailboats a couple of times. His wife described crossing the Pacific in a small bot as “Endless hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of sheer terror.”

 

There is often the balance between pleasure and danger. Sometimes like my friend in the airplane, the danger can happen suddenly, sometimes a slow deterioration.

• The obese person balances the pleasure of eating things he/she loves with the risk of dying early due to an obesity-related disease.
• The drug user, whether it's alcohol or fentanyl, does the same thing.
• Same for smokers. Most smokers don't get lung cancer, but some do, and any smoker can be in the 'do' category.
• Skiers risk broken bones. It's so common that almost every movie that depicts a ski lodge, has someone with their leg in a cast.
• Hang gliders and wing suit 'flyers' risk sudden death for the pleasure of the sensation of flying.
• Climate change has unearthed bodies on Mt. Everest of climbers who risked death for their pleasure.
• Motorcycle riders risk death by inattentive motorists.
• Going down in an unapproved sub to see the Titanic can kill you, too.

Some people are more daredevil than others, and sometimes the devil wins. Most of us probably have a risk vs. pleasure evaluation for many of the things we do.

 

Even if I had the means, I probably wouldn't pilot a single engine plane, or climb high mountains, but I wouldn't stay 'safe at home' all the time, either.

 

But 'safe at home' would help me avoid improperly socialized, bratty kids (there, back on topic)

 

 

Notes ♫