Analog Tape Recording: Anyone still doing it?

[Old Music Guy]

I have been struggling with DAWs for about 2 years: ProTools, Cubase, Ableton, etc. My computer is up to snuff. I have a good TASCAM DI, and everything that one would THINK they need to make good music. 

 

Instrument wise I have guitars by the boat load, eDrums, MIDI synths, a Hammond organ, mics, mile and miles of wires and connectors, blah blah blah. 

I got so tired of trying to set up analog and digital gear, only to find that at my next session, all my work is "missing" or "cannot be found" or all the settings have been lost.

 

I decided to go back to analog for tracking. I purchased a Revox C278. While this creates it own set of issues, I am honing in on a 16 channel board with direct outputs to the Revox. 

 

I guess my question is: Has anyone gotten to the point where DAWs are really not worth the trouble for tracking? And are there any pitfalls to mix and master using a DAW from an analog input? 
Thanks, 

Don

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

I have been struggling with DAWs for about 2 years: ProTools, Cubase, Ableton, etc. ...

I got so tired of trying to set up analog and digital gear, only to find that at my next session, all my work is "missing" or "cannot be found" or all the settings have been lost.

 

I've used Pro Tools, and the most irritating thing (okay, ONE of the most irritating things) is when it can't find data files. I don't understand why it doesn't save a file WITH all its data. As it is, it's as if every time you saved a Microsoft Word document (or saved a variation, i.e. "save as..."), all your formatting was in the Word doc, and all the actual text was in some other data file, so when you opened a document, you were only assured of having the formatting, and might have to search to re-locate and "re-link" the actual text that goes with it. 

 

I'm thinking of trying Logic next. I don't know if it's any better/simpler/more error-proof.

[AnotherScott]

23 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

And are there any pitfalls to mix and master using a DAW from an analog input? 

It's pretty much the only way I've ever done it. All my Pro Tools tracks have been brought in as live-played audio. I've never been a sequencer guy, whether in the keyboards, or on the computer side. I've played with it a bit for demo/learning purposes, but never used it for real work.

 

I guess the pitfall is the inability to edit a bum note by changing a MIDI value. Like you, I've come from the analog tape world, so I have an analog-style approach to editing. If a note is off-time, instead of editing MIDI, I'll move the waveform. If there's a flub, either I do another take, or copy-and-paste something from elsewhere in the track.

[Bill Heins]

I started out on a Tascam PortaOne...4 tracks by using both sides of the casettetape   Right now I use Nuendo, Wavelab, etc. I have no troubles in the digital world but I build my own machines, set all my project files to save to a seperate location for each project(all the files for Project X are in the Project X folder ), stay on top of software updates, etc.

 

Right now I'm running an i91200k on an ASUS ProArt mb with 128GB of RAM, 18TB of storage(I'll wind up doubling it ), Thunderbolt 4(though I'm using a TB3 interface- Presonus Quantum 2626, Win11 Pro, yadda yadda! Also got a Motu Midi Express XT for midi connections. With that said all my audio runs through my old Mackie 1604VLZ...a little bit of analog noise on the way in !

 

Doing the music I do analog tape is not an option....classical, new age, hard rock, new age, celtic...mixed up of course! I can't picture the cost to house and feed a symphony orchestra to have on call any time I want to work

 

Bill

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, Bill Heins said:

I Doing the music I do analog tape is not an option....classical, new age, hard rock, new age, celtic...mixed up of course! I can't picture the cost to house and feed a symphony orchestra to have on call any time I want to work

Using analog tape does not preclude using your keyboards--or even VSTs!--to record whatever orchestral sounds you want. But your editing options greatly diminish. 🙂

[Bill Heins]

I took it that the original poster was foregoing computer recording altogether and doing it all analog I know you can record any source to tape but if you use a computer as a sound source why wouldn't you record on it? I'd love to find out what the problems are and maybe we can figure them out for him

 

Bill

[AnotherScott]

33 minutes ago, Bill Heins said:

I know you can record any source to tape but if you use a computer as a sound source why wouldn't you record on it?

Well, some people just like the sound of analog tape... in fact, there are plug-ins to simulate it. 😉 But just as there are purists who will take real analog synths over virtual ones, I imagine there are those who want to use real analog tape and not a simulation. 

 

But in the case of the OP, it's not that... it's that the digital recording approach can yield another layer of complication, prone to its own issues (like the aforementioned missing data when you try to open a file). 

 

[KuruPrionz]

I used to use tape, even worked at a friend's 8 track recording studio for a while. 

I spent some time at Maximus Studios in Fresno, just as an observer. They had a pair of 2" Studer 24 tracks synced up so 46 tracks (or so, not sure on the number).

Unfortunately, my memories of their monitor speaks is that they were more of less like an Altec Voice of The Theater design, built into the soffits. Not great sounding. 

They probably have some fantastic monitors now, this was decades ago.

 

Now I use Waveform (used to be Tracktion) and I find it very easy to work with. It sounds great, plugins work well and the file is saved both as a master file and in a separate folder every track is saved. My interface is a MOTU M6 and it's sounding excellent. Very easy to work with. 

 

I won't be going back to analog. 

[David Emm]

I had just barely been exposed to a solid Otari 8-track setup when I hit a bump that landed me in front of my first PC. I had a crap generic Windows 95 knockoff, with all of the attendant joys. Things improved mightily when I took up a PowerMac, but after hating the bleep out of my first crapulent sequencer, I took up Logic with version 8, where IMO, it really came into its own.

 

Logic retains Everything. Files & data pop up as a unit. I've rarely had it ask for anything and when its occurred, its been 98% "Which version of this sound do you want?" By contrast, the prep required for a tape session seems too top-heavy now.  

 

You won't hear me wind up about Mac-vs.-PC, but Logic's system integration with its hardware is a marvel of consistency. Apple's premium fees seem small when I consider the high performance quality. I don't know how that might stack up against your previous DAW experiences, but it deserves some consideration.

 

P.S. Ah, Altec-Lansing A7 Voice of the Theater speakers, with the power to blow away toupees and animals up to 20 pounds! 🎃

[Anderton]

Overall, I found tape to be much more difficult to deal with on multiple levels than DAWs. But DAWs are strict about how to have to handle the data. Some do it better than others. Usually, there's some kind of option to "save to a new folder" or whatever. It collects all your data, whether you recorded it, it came from a sample CD, is sitting on an external drive, whatever, then saves that with your project file. The project file knows exactly where to find the data, because it's all in the same folder. 

 

I don't consider a project truly saved until I've re-saved it as described above (and backed it up, of course!). 

[Old Music Guy]

On 10/30/2023 at 2:34 PM, Bill Heins said:

I took it that the original poster was foregoing computer recording altogether and doing it all analog I know you can record any source to tape but if you use a computer as a sound source why wouldn't you record on it? I'd love to find out what the problems are and maybe we can figure them out for him

 

Bill

Not exactly, Bill. I am not precluding "computer recording". My biggest issue(s) are:

 

On 10/29/2023 at 10:06 PM, AnotherScott said:

I've used Pro Tools, and the most irritating thing (okay, ONE of the most irritating things) is when it can't find data files. I don't understand why it doesn't save a file WITH all its data.

What Another Scott said. This can be said for any DAW i have used. I've lost so much music, including lost files, deleted files, non-existent files, that it's disgusting. 

If I have it on tape, it lives. 

On 10/30/2023 at 3:12 PM, AnotherScott said:

But just as there are purists who will take real analog synths over virtual ones, I imagine there are those who want to use real analog tape and not a simulation. 

I'm not a "purist". Digital, analog, no one can tell the difference anymore anyway. I just wanna make music with my friends, and not look like an idiot everytime my DAW crashes. And that's not the worst part... It's the latency. THAT drove my guys to the edge, and is the ONLY thing they bitch about (and I'm no angel).

I want the "in the moment" vibe when we click. I can do post after the fact. 

 

 

On 10/29/2023 at 10:23 PM, AnotherScott said:

It's pretty much the only way I've ever done it. All my Pro Tools tracks have been brought in as live-played audio.

That's my current goal.

 

I really appreciate your points of view. 

Please, keep em coming!

 

 

[Bill Heins]

I've never lost data but I don't use Pro Tools so I don't know if you can configure it the way I work. I use Nuendo and on an SSD I have a folder called Nuendo Projects. Every Nuendo project I create has it's own folder in the Nuendo Projects folder. Inside every one of those individual project folders contains the project, an audio folder, a mixdown folder, etc. I can move that folder anywhere I want and if I open the project file in that folder everything is always there. I backup to bluray so at any time in the future I can move that folder back to the PC and the project will open up no problem. One thing I do that helps future proof is at the end I render all Midi tracks to audio so there is only audio...though now I'm starting to copy the Midi files to plain Midi tracks so I can always use them again with the latest and greatest midi instruments at that time

 

I don't lose files or have latency issues but I built a system strictly for audio work....hopefully you can sort out your issues because a good running DAW is a gift from the heavens!

 

Bill

[Old Music Guy]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:18 PM, Bill Heins said:

I use Nuendo and on an SSD I have a folder called Nuendo Projects.

Did you format your drive to create another drive (such a F:) to save your work?

[Bill Heins]

No I have 2 separate SSDs, a 1TB for Windows, Programs, plugins. etc. and a second 2TB drive for my projects. I also use 4 hdds for sample libraries and an external for backup until I burn to bluray. All told I'm sitting on 18TB of room I can add 2 more SSD's to the motherboard or 1 SSD and 4 more hdds...not worried about space here

 

Bill

[KuruPrionz]

On 10/31/2023 at 4:38 PM, Old Music Guy said:

Not exactly, Bill. I am not precluding "computer recording". My biggest issue(s) are:

 

What Another Scott said. This can be said for any DAW i have used. I've lost so much music, including lost files, deleted files, non-existent files, that it's disgusting. 

If I have it on tape, it lives. 

I'm not a "purist". Digital, analog, no one can tell the difference anymore anyway. I just wanna make music with my friends, and not look like an idiot everytime my DAW crashes. And that's not the worst part... It's the latency. THAT drove my guys to the edge, and is the ONLY thing they bitch about (and I'm no angel).

I want the "in the moment" vibe when we click. I can do post after the fact. 

 

 

That's my current goal.

 

I really appreciate your points of view. 

Please, keep em coming!

 

 

I'm using Waveform 12.5 as a DAW, a Mac mini with 16gb of RAM and I have backup drives to put the recordings because "1 is none and 2 is 1". If something happens to your one tape, it's game over. Tape duping loses fidelity. If you are going to record your tapes to a DAW you might as well just use the DAW. 

Have you tried googling questions about ProTools or posting questions in online forums? There are answers for everything if one searches. 

It's very important to have a fast, modern computer. You don't mention what you are using but if latency is a problem that suggests your computer is simply not up to the task at hand. It could very well be a newer computer but simply under powered in terms of the processing chip and/or RAM. If the computer is modern and fast then the only other thing I can think of is operator error. 

On the other hand, if you are recording a band playing then as long as nobody is listening while recording, latency should not be a problem at all if you set it long enough so the computer can keep up. 

By the way, I've used tape many times in the past. 8 track tape recorder running 1/2" tape for a few projects, 4 track reel to reel and cassette. There is much that can be done that way but I don't miss it at all. 

[Old Music Guy]

I know this is a reply to an old post, so consider this an update. 

I decided to jump into analog head first. I picked up a Studer/ReVox 8 track a month ago. I also picked up a Peavey RSM 16 track mixer. 

While I'm still up to my arse trying to wire the proper cables, I have been able to make music (on 4 channels) without a computer. 

I did find that my TASCAM DI will work as a true DI IF it isn't plugged into the PC via USB. 

My only issue now is how to route my MIDI controller, synth and  drum plugins and go directly to tape WITHOUT plugging the DI into the computer. 

Maybe it should be an overdub situation

???