Weighted keys (as a midi controller) for gigs - studiologic sl studio 73 vs Yamaha p-121

[Benny Vilner]

Hi.

I'm looking to replace my Roland RD-64 for my mainstage live setup (keys feel too stiff and not 'pianinstic'). My specific setup includes the keys, korg nanokontrol2, an audio interface and a macbook pro with mainstage. The sounds - pianos&Ep's are pianoteq, bass&B3 are Kontakt, and the others are mainstage factory sounds.

Since portability is a main concern, both weight and length, I'm into short weighted actions. I was looking into studiologic sl studio 73 and Yamaha p-121 for their length and weight, and wanted to hear from a player who knows theses boards.

I tested yamaha p-125 which is basicly the same as the 121, but couldn't find a store here in Israel with the sl studio.

 

pros for the yamaha - has its own sounds (might be useful occasionally), functions as an audio interface, reliable company.

cons - no pitch bend/mod wheel, not sure about the action - works great with the internal sounds, not quite the same  with pianoteq (maybe because it's dual sensors?)

 

pros for the studiologic - built for this exact purpose, has pitch&mod sticks (although looks fragile), aftertouch, triple sensors.

cons - I have a nord stage 3 (76) with the same action. It's not THAT great, not sure if it feels different on the SL Studio. No internal sounds.

 

Any thoughts? Especially if you own one of these and use it as a controller for a piano plugging .

 

Benny

[stoken6]

I would personally avoid anything with a TP/100 action. I tried the SL73 Studio a little while back and didn't like it. It was similar to the Electro 6 HP set up alongside, so I suspect it will be similar to your Stage. 

 

I quite like the P121 action - it's way ahead of the SL in my view. Built-in audio interface is useful, but as you say no pitch/mod wheels. Add a little two-octave controller if you want those.

 

What's your budget? Could you stretch to the Studiologic Numa 73 - which has the updated TP/110 action (I haven't tried it but many reports are positive). Or even Yamaha's CP73?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Benny Vilner]

3 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

I would personally avoid anything with a TP/100 action. I tried the SL73 Studio a little while back and didn't like it. It was similar to the Electro 6 HP set up alongside, so I suspect it will be similar to your Stage. 

 

I quite like the P121 action - it's way ahead of the SL in my view. Built-in audio interface is useful, but as you say no pitch/mod wheels. Add a little two-octave controller if you want those.

 

What's your budget? Could you stretch to the Studiologic Numa 73 - which has the updated TP/110 action (I haven't tried it but many reports are positive). Or even Yamaha's CP73?

 

Cheers, Mike.

Thanks for the reply.

I think the new numa x piano didn't arrive to Israel yet (saw the GT on one website, not the regulars). Wondering if it's that different.

The cp 73 seems overstretched. I'm gigging with the nord and a yamaha modx6, this setup in purely on occasions where I don't want to carry an expansive board, feels weird to use the cp as a midi controller...

 

[Paul Woodward]

I had the SL88 so same keybed. I quite liked playing it once I got into the SL Editor and tweaked the velocity settings to my taste (default settings either play sounds full velocity too easily (not good for piano) or you pretty much needed to stand on the keys to achieve the same 🙂 However, if you are playing with headphones on or live you will not notice how clunky and noisy it can be. In a quiet room, or for others, its really quite noisy especially the black keys.

If you google for a video stripping it down/repairing, you see that the hammers hit the frame under the front panel and, when the foam tape deteriorates, it gets much worse.

Haing said that, I thought it was a fantastic midi controller (two Midi out, one in and also USB) and the sticks are more robust than you might expect. Just don’t expect it to replace a proper weighted piano keybed, or look at the SL Grand. Sold mine as I am not gigging and it was just too big to have around the house collecting dust. Otherwise, might have kept it as a cheap live board.

[mobi]

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

would personally avoid anything with a TP/100 action.

 

Definitely avoid that action, I've seen many keyboards that use it develop rattling keys over time, no matter which brand (Nord, Arturia, Native Instruments, Studio Logic)

 

 

[ChazKeys]

I am using the P121 at home for VB3m and Korg Module. I have a drawbar unit for the VB3m and it doubles as a controller for the Korg Module, I have the Mdi Expansion installed.

 

If I want piano I use the built in piano  - it’s the CF engine.  Sounds fine to me.

 

Scarbee EP and the Korg Wurly play great on the P121. The action is lighter and easier to play than the SL73 which I found too sluggish - similar to a real Rhodes which was too heavy for my taste. The P121 is closer to a real Wurly.

 

Surprisingly I also find playing VB3m organ quite easy on the P121. 

 

Easy to split on the fly and you can shift them up or down several octaves. You just have to remember the shortcuts - like switching the internal sounds off.

 

 The built in audio interface is so useful. The lack of pitch and mod wheels will be an issue if you rely on them. However, I don’t like the sticks. Yamaha used them on the CP73 - one of the reasons I dumped the CP.

 

My CP also suffered from clacky keys. I opened it up several times and found that removing them and resetting them helped.

 

If I was still playing live I would be happy to be use my P121/iPhone rig.

 

 

 

[Benny Vilner]

20 minutes ago, ChazKeys said:

I am using the P121 at home for VB3m and Korg Module. I have a drawbar unit for the VB3m and it doubles as a controller for the Korg Module, I have the Mdi Expansion installed.

 

If I want piano I use the built in piano  - it’s the CF engine.  Sounds fine to me.

 

Scarbee EP and the Korg Wurly play great on the P121. The action is lighter and easier to play than the SL73 which I found too sluggish - similar to a real Rhodes which was too heavy for my taste. The P121 is closer to a real Wurly.

 

Surprisingly I also find playing VB3m organ quite easy on the P121. 

 

Easy to split on the fly and you can shift them up or down several octaves. You just have to remember the shortcuts - like switching the internal sounds off.

 

 The built in audio interface is so useful. The lack of pitch and mod wheels will be an issue if you rely on them. However, I don’t like the sticks. Yamaha used them on the CP73 - one of the reasons I dumped the CP.

 

My CP also suffered from clacky keys. I opened it up several times and found that removing them and resetting them helped.

 

If I was still playing live I would be happy to be use my P121/iPhone rig.

 

 

 

Did you try playing a virtual instrument piano plugging with the p-121? does it translate well to your touch?

[Paul Woodward]

Not aimed at me, but I used the Ivory Piano from Module and, after the tweaks I mentioned, found it very enjoyable to play with good response. Out of the box the board would feel like a dud and its presets are next to useless as there is an issue with external gear not responding with all four zones activated. Again, easy enough to get around when you know, but to a new user they might feel very disappointed with their new buy. 

P.S Another glitch when connecting the SL editor which requires a specific process and settings to work. Again, head scratching and disappointing.

[ChazKeys]

I have tried it with Pianoteq - demo version so some notes don’t play. This also feels very good and responsive. I set my P121 to the light setting.

 

I can run it at 64ms and there is no discernible latency with my iPhone 8+.
 

 The latest version of Pianoteq is impressive. I am quite happy with the P121 piano sounds -  but I am not a pro piano player!

[Benny Vilner]

26 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Not aimed at me, but I used the Ivory Piano from Module and, after the tweaks I mentioned, found it very enjoyable to play with good response. Out of the box the board would feel like a dud and its presets are next to useless as there is an issue with external gear not responding with all four zones activated. Again, easy enough to get around when you know, but to a new user they might feel very disappointed with their new buy. 

P.S Another glitch when connecting the SL editor which requires a specific process and settings to work. Again, head scratching and disappointing.

Did you experience a decreasing quality of the keys over time?

[MPN21]

I was going to get either the P121 or the Numa X73.   No built-in speaker on the X73 is a deal breaker for me.   I realized that I play the low C, Db, D, and Eb too often.  So the P121 is also out of the question also.  Casio or somebody should build a nice 73 key with built in speakers.

[Paul Woodward]

2 hours ago, Benny Vilner said:

Did you experience a decreasing quality of the keys over time?

Didnt really have it long enough to see clear deterioration, but I wasnt the first owner and I noticed the noisy keys within a few days of really digging in when playing.

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, MPN21 said:

Casio or somebody should build a nice 73 key with built in speakers.

Korg SV2/S? (Although still no low C)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[drawbars]

I just bought a Studio 73 myself, for similar reasons.  Having it about two weeks, with one gig, here are my thoughts:

 

• (+) It's very solidly built.  I use it to hold up the keyboard end of my Nord Stage 3 Compact, and I have absolutely no worries about it falling off.  It's a good balance between weight and stiffness.
• (+) It fits well in most 'slim 61' keyboard cases.  (I'm using the SKB 1KS-SC61KW.)
• (+) It runs well on USB self-power.
• (+) The display is bright and easy to read.  I like the fact that each of the four zones can have a name and an instrument group/type.
• (+) It has a LOT of program locations -- far more than I will ever need out of a MIDI master keyboard.
• (+) It feels a lot like the hammer action on a Nord -- because it is -- but the ability to program 9 custom velocity maps makes a world of difference.  I use Soft for the upper part of my acoustic piano, and progressively heavier variants for the middle and bottom -- all of which are a little lighter than the 'Normal' setting of the SL73.  I also have a specific one for Clavinet that plays pretty much like the semi-weighted action on the Stage.
• (-) Programming the SL73 is typical Studiologic 'quirky.'  The programming software helps a lot, but even that doesn't make tasks like reorganizing the progams easy.
• (-) The three joysticks need more resistance, IMHO.  The two with springs are usable, if one doesn't get carried away.  The springless one is so easy to push that only thing it's useful for so kind of wild knob thrashing at the end of a solo or something.  I'm trying to work out if there is something I could put in the ring -- cloth, Velcro, foam rubber, etc. -- to give all three sticks more 'push-back.'
• (-) The data joystick is also a little lighter weight than I wish.

 

Regards,

-BW

[DovJ]

@Benny Vilner have you checked at Kley Zemer? They claim to have the P125A. 
 

I’ve bought from the Jerusalem branch (Yamaha YC61 for myself and a classical guitar for my son) and also had my Yamaha CP4 serviced by them. I am completely satisfied. 
 

 

[Benny Vilner]

8 hours ago, DovJ said:

@Benny Vilner have you checked at Kley Zemer? They claim to have the P125A. 
 

I’ve bought from the Jerusalem branch (Yamaha YC61 for myself and a classical guitar for my son) and also had my Yamaha CP4 serviced by them. I am completely satisfied. 
 

 

Yamaha P series are all over the place in Israel. The problem is to find studiologic models...

[MPN21]

19 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Korg SV2/S? (Although still no low C)

 

Cheers, Mike.

It is certainly a nice board, but heavy at 40 LBS.

[ProfD]

Considering the 1) price point and 2) how most KB players use controllers nowadays, I would recommend a digital piano (DP) over a dedicated MIDI controller. 

 

Beyond patch changes, I doubt that very many gigging KB players are using MIDI controller to make ADSR changes and/or do filter sweeps on a multi-rig KB setup.  The 1980s are gone.🤣

 

Most MIDI controllers are just another set of keys (weighted or unweighted) to use with another hardware KB and/or software.

 

Added bonus is that a DP has built-in sounds which makes for a great rehearsal KB too.😎

[Benny Vilner]

59 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Considering the 1) price point and 2) how most KB players use controllers nowadays, I would recommend a digital piano (DP) over a dedicated MIDI controller. 

 

Beyond patch changes, I doubt that very many gigging KB players are using MIDI controller to make ADSR changes and/or do filter sweeps on a multi-rig KB setup.  The 1980s are gone.🤣

 

Most MIDI controllers are just another set of keys (weighted or unweighted) to use with another hardware KB and/or software.

 

Added bonus is that a DP has built-in sounds which makes for a great rehearsal KB too.😎

I'm for one am using controllers for B3 drawbars, triggering effects and adjusting balance of layered piano&pad. I'm doing this with my nanokontrol2. Guess I'm indeed stuck in the 1980' in a way 😂

 

After googling for truly weird joystic/pitch bend gadgets, I actually came across a REALLY COOL solution. It's a software named audioswift and it turns your macbook trackpad into a controller! At first I had issues understanding the concept of the setup, but I contacted them and the guy replied very quick and guided me clearly and simple. I tried the track pad as a X/Y pad but I think I'll use it as a virtual 4 sliders (the software has few modes to use the trackpad). Left quarter of the trackpad as a pitch wheel ('springs' back to zero) and right next to it - a mod wheel.

Since the macbook pro is already infront of me in the shows, it's very handy and convenient. This really solve me the lack of a pitch bend on a DP. Not as pleasing as a dedicated hardware but it will certainly do the job!

[ProfD]

4 minutes ago, Benny Vilner said:

I'm for one am using controllers for B3 drawbars, triggering effects and adjusting balance of layered piano&pad. I'm doing this with my nanokontrol2. Guess I'm indeed stuck in the 1980' in a way 😂

 

After googling for truly weird joystic/pitch bend gadgets, I actually came across a REALLY COOL solution. It's a software named audioswift and it turns your macbook trackpad into a controller!

 

Since the macbook pro is already infront of me in the shows, it's very handy and convenient. This really solve me the lack of a pitch bend on a DP. Not as pleasing as a dedicated hardware but it will certainly do the job!

I'm a vet around here...nevermind my broad brush stroke.🤣

 

Surely, there are modern KB players who need more control over their sounds and rigs.

 

As you've discovered with the NanoKontrol2 and now audioswift software, there are different ways of getting there.

 

One size doesn't fit all.  There are several paths to the solution.😎

[Paul Woodward]

In defence of the SL series, you can program the sticks to pretty much anything. The right one for example can work like the vector stick on the wavestation/D50. I set the left one to pitch bend and mod, second one to leslie speed/stop. You could set these to provide a lot of control over external gear if you need that sort of thing.