KARMA - Front and Center

[Thethirdapple]

Is it time to re-visit and re-think KARMA-Lab algorithms?

 

Generative musical creativity has become a central point of my current studio work. I have been exploring the use of KARMA phrasing and GE’s not as accompaniment but as a central aspect of my compositions. Going beyond the notion of a workstation as a standalone tool, by using my Korg as a midi / sound matrix for driving other gear in my studio. And of course feeding the KARMA modules with all sorts of external triggers.

 

Also coming to realize that many of the features and tools with KARMA are limited by the onboard controls of either the Korg or Yamaha WS. Diving into SysEx has unleashed a myriad of performance parameters which is eye (ear) popping goodness. 

Would love to hear anyone’s thoughts around generative algorithms and gear in general. I have been looking into some desktop modules such as:

NDLR

Squarp Hapax 

Oxi One

 

 

🤖

PEACE

 

 

 

[David Emm]

Being a long-term Korgian and native Wavestater, I can relate to your interest. I use Logic in a very linear fashion, so I'm not big on actual generative, just informed by it. I'll sometimes noodle on casually by hand and end up with a usable base for More.  

 

I missed the KARMA boat by inches (that damned display was pixelated to squinting death, yeesh), so I've leaned on Korg's internal sequencers. The Wavestate's DICE button is a strange beast that crosses over with the KARMA engine, I think. You always have to decide how much will roll on cyborg auto-pilot and where you'll put your hand in more directly. Its like early AI, where the systems still toss you variants on whatever you did previously. That's fun to hear, but also dangerously seductive.

 

You're a brave soul to turn even a modest GE into the driver for outboard gear. That's as complex an undertaking as creating a modular patch that looks like you dipped all of your patchcords in glue and threw them at the synth. If you're planning to use KARMA to send AND receive, you're beginning to think in Buchla-level terms. I hope you don't have a demanding job or significant other. If so, toss those; you won't have time for them. You have super-GEs to build.

[marino]

I would love to see a "Karmastate" instrument! Unfortunately, the Wavestate UI is already not user-friendly, or simply logic, at all. With all these knobs and buttons, a more rational approach to the many functions would have been welcome. Adding a complete Karma section would be wonderful in theory, but dangerously close to madness... doing it via the editor(s), however, could be viable.

[Thethirdapple]

12 hours ago, David Emm said:

You're a brave soul to turn even a modest GE into the driver for outboard gear. That's as complex an undertaking as creating a modular patch that looks like you dipped all of your patchcords in glue and threw them at the synth. If you're planning to use KARMA to send AND receive, you're beginning to think in Buchla-level terms. I hope you don't have a demanding job or significant other. If so, toss those; you won't have time for them. You have super-GEs to build.

 

Luckily all those cables are just bits and bytes! It is a daunting platform for sure, yet once I got away from using the preset Combi’s and began to build my own, the whole thing makes perfect sense. In my experience making humble and restrained GE’s, has taken time, but has led to some  truly awesome phrasings and expressions for not only the Korg sounds but many other synth’s in the studio.

 

 

 

11 hours ago, marino said:

I would love to see a "Karmastate" instrument! Unfortunately, the Wavestate UI is already not user-friendly, or simply logic, at all. With all these knobs and buttons, a more rational approach to the many functions would have been welcome. Adding a complete Karma section would be wonderful in theory, but dangerously close to madness... doing it via the editor(s), however, could be viable.

 

Fully agree a new version of KARMA is highly anticipated. That said I have not had a chance to use the Wavestate as much as would like, dont yet have one, but friends are luckily friendly…

 

I was very frustrated by the limitations and menu diving on a small screen which Korg, understandably had to impose on a keyboard , I dove into cataloging all the REALTIME SysEx messages to be able to visualize and control all the parameters of KARMA with external controls such as the BCR/BCF 2000. And currently building a proof of concept,  Ctrlr interface to translate midi CC to SysEx for the Korg KARMA. In doing so I realized that ALL the KARMA RT parameters are controllable in real time… moving on to the M3 next and eventually a Yamaha Motif to do the same.

Korg KARMA SYSEX: Peeks, Pokes and Calls

http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/korg-karma:sysex:peeks-pokes-and-calls

 

The publication on the wiki is in progress, but you will find a nearly completed database of all the Sysex for it. As for other generative gear, the search continues as I am looking into all sort of triggers for Humanized Generative Music expression… 

 

Posted my “laundry list” of wants here:

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

I was just reminded that the band Animal Collective used  KARMA on the Korg M3 as part of their songwriting/production process

 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/animal-collective-turn-to-korg-m3-for-next-album-202590

[Tusker]

It’s worth presuming that some automated tools such as Karma may carry more cultural and idiomatic information than other tools which could be more abstract or mathematical. Also some tools may be better for exploring pitch and harmony relationships while others may be better for rhythmic relationships.

 

[Thethirdapple]

14 minutes ago, Tusker said:

It’s worth presuming that some automated tools such as Karma may carry more cultural and idiomatic information than other tools which could be more abstract or mathematical. Also some tools may be better for exploring pitch and harmony relationships while others may be better for rhythmic relationships.

 

 
Without a doubt, the KARMA GE’s are not random phrasing per se… My understanding is that it was developed to bring humanized phrasings to otherwise stiff midi sequencing. Also that the rules (algorithms) which it follows are not modifiable, paired with more randomized generative gear, it has brought a certain flavor to the overly random notation of most generative platforms. One of my favorite mix and match options right now is Wotja and KARMA. Mixing all of these tools together into one instrument (whole studio approach), is a major goal as well as revisiting vintage gear in new ways…

 

I have been exploring the use of all sorts of triggers for KARMA to “phrase”, some driven by me such as a DrumKat, MMT-8, MSQ100, and of course my own keyboard playing. But now have been intrigued by using elements of nature such as rain, directional sound, animals to trigger the GE’s and phrasing modulations.

 

In todays world of AI, I am determined to find and define a Humanized Algorithmic Paradigm. Using most generative gear also follows rules which are defined by certain cannons or musical theory.

 

 

[marino]

17 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I was just reminded that the band Animal Collective used  KARMA on the Korg M3 as part of their songwriting/production process

 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/animal-collective-turn-to-korg-m3-for-next-album-202590

 

I didn't know that they used the Karma system, but it seem to fit well with their music. I like Animal Collective... they start from pop (pop?) and turn it upside down.

[Thethirdapple]

18 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I was just reminded that the band Animal Collective used  KARMA on the Korg M3 as part of their songwriting/production process

 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/animal-collective-turn-to-korg-m3-for-next-album-202590

Very cool, I also found this from a 2009 article…

 

Quote

Why did you choose the Korg M3?
I started making songs on a Korg 0/1W pro that my family had, and I feel that by using it so much I came to understand how the thing worked inside and out. I guess I felt like I had learned the Korg language, if you know what I mean. So when I first heard about the Korg M3, I was excited because it felt like a familiar face coming back. I was really into the idea of the Karma engine too, and how it could throw surprises and twists and turns into the sounds. I really like how you can manage the sounds in detail and how you can kind of rip the thing apart from the inside out.

I’ve also really been into the idea of using current equipment and new technologies and devices. I feel like there’s a lot of interest in older machines and gear, and I’d rather go the other way and try to embrace what’s now or what’s new.

 

Do you have any favorite features of the M3?
I really like the arpeggiator and the Karma engine. I feel like I can get all kinds of sounds just using combinations of those two. I don’t use a keyboard at all, although sometimes I’ll hook up a guitar with a MIDI pickup, because it’s fun to see how things end up melodically and structurally that way.

https://midikeyboards.wordpress.com/tag/animal-collective-gear/
 

 

PEACE