Pickups & pots

[picker]

I'm installing a set of hot rail style 'buckers in a strat that currently has alnico V singles in it. I have heard that I should change the pots from 250k to 500k. Is it necessary to change all three of the pots, or would it work just to change the volume pot?

[Old Music Guy]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:50 PM, picker said:

Is it necessary to change all three of the pots,

Yes.

This keeps the impedance of the entire circuit balanced. 

 

[KuruPrionz]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:50 PM, picker said:

I'm installing a set of hot rail style 'buckers in a strat that currently has alnico V singles in it. I have heard that I should change the pots from 250k to 500k. Is it necessary to change all three of the pots, or would it work just to change the volume pot?

Try just changing the volume pot and see what happens. I never use any of my pots anyway, I just crank them all up and go. The pick is my instant volume and tone control and the edge of my palm can govern the sustain and/or percussiveness of my attack. 

[Larryz]

500k pots on all three is what I and the Gibson manufacture have done on my humbucker equipped guitars.  Nothing wrong with trying Kuru's suggestion though...😎

[KuruPrionz]

30 minutes ago, Larryz said:

500k pots on all three is what I and the Gibson manufacture have done on my humbucker equipped guitars.  Nothing wrong with trying Kuru's suggestion though...😎

That's what Gibson has in stock and uses. Tone pots are designed to bleed highs off to ground via a capacitor. The value of the cap is more important than the value of the pot. I don't use tone pots, ever. Not even sure why they are called "tone" pots when they remove tone. 

[Larryz]

@KuruPrionz +1 I use 22iu Orange Drop caps.  A lot of players leave the Tone pots up full and that's probably the reason Fender came out with their Delta Tone pots which have a detent locking mechanism that leaves them full up.  The pots are labeled "Tone" and "Volume" on all guitars.  They do increase and decrease the volume and the treble and bass settings to my ear.  I used to not use the tone knobs and just run them full up on my Strats at all times, but working more with Gibson style controls I do use the tone settings on both pups with the 3way in the middle position for blending and I play the electric as though it is an acoustic using hybrid pick and fingers.  The pickups make the biggest difference when more bass is needed, I flip to the neck pup and when more treble is needed, I switch to the bridge pup, mostly leaving the 3way in the middle for rhythm guitar to back my vocals.  I know you would like to bypass the tone pots...😎👍

[KuruPrionz]

58 minutes ago, Larryz said:

@KuruPrionz +1 I use 22iu Orange Drop caps.  A lot of players leave the Tone pots up full and that's probably the reason Fender came out with their Delta Tone pots which have a detent locking mechanism that leaves them full up.  The pots are labeled "Tone" and "Volume" on all guitars.  They do increase and decrease the volume and the treble and bass settings to my ear.  I used to not use the tone knobs and just run them full up on my Strats at all times, but working more with Gibson style controls I do use the tone settings on both pups with the 3way in the middle position for blending and I play the electric as though it is an acoustic using hybrid pick and fingers.  The pickups make the biggest difference when more bass is needed, I flip to the neck pup and when more treble is needed, I switch to the bridge pup, mostly leaving the 3way in the middle for rhythm guitar to back my vocals.  I know you would like to bypass the tone pots...😎👍

We are all different Larryz. 

Last night I played around a bit with my Gibson ES335 Studio model (1986). The wiring needs checked, after decades of good performance now it drops out sometimes. Intermittent, difficult to diagnose. Anyway, I have an EMG HB (Steinberger bass pickup) in the neck, an EMG 81 in the bridge (lowered a bit for volume balance) a 3 way switch and the volume knob closest to the bridge works. The other three pots are used to fill the holes and hold knobs so it looks normal. The volume knob stays all the way up all the time, I don't actually need it except maybe for breaks when I can just turn the guitar down. 

 

I've always played acoustic guitar, mostly acoustically at home. I'm used to getting my volume and tone changes with my right hand, it's how I've done it for a long time. 

If I want to do "swells" I prefer a pedal since that leaves the hands free. I watch video of Jeff Beck plucking strings, working the whammy bar and adjusting the volume all at the same time and flawlessly. I am amazed, he's my favorite guitarist - melodic and meaningful always. 

[Larryz]

@KuruPrionz  +1 we are all different and yet we have some things in common.  I too learned to adjust my tone and volume using my right-hand picking position and palm muting on my acoustics.  Later I learned to do the same on my electrics. The Tele was a great learning experience with the two stock pups, by getting different tones with the selector on for both pups adjusting the tone knob to taste and then playing it like an acoustic using picking positions and dynamics.  I really don't use/need the whammy much and seldom do any volume swells anymore like Jeff and Roy (except on some surf tunes).  I prefer to use a clean boost pedal to adjust my volume up and down for rhythm and for lead and leave the controls set where I think they sound best for clean rhythm playing.  I prefer USA Gibson 57 humbuckers turned down for some reason.  I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy...😎

 

ps. for the intermittent dropouts on the 335, check the 3way as I have had to replace the cheap ones on two guitars with similar controls using a new Swithcraft switch.  The other issue that came up was very tricky and it was in the 4 pot grounding wires. A loose solder joint on one guitar was easy to spot the 1st time it happened.  The second time was a lot more difficult as the cheap thin ground wire had broken inside the insulation cord exterior about an inch back and everything looked good solder wise. Anyway, I would check the pot grounding wires...😎

[KuruPrionz]

7 minutes ago, Larryz said:

@KuruPrionz  +1 we are all different and yet we have some things in common.  I too learned to adjust my tone and volume using my right-hand picking position and palm muting on my acoustics.  Later I learned to do the same on my electrics. The Tele was a great learning experience with the two stock pups, by getting different tones with the selector on for both pups adjusting the tone knob to taste and then playing it like an acoustic using picking positions and dynamics.  I really don't use/need the whammy much and seldom do any volume swells anymore like Jeff and Roy (except on some surf tunes).  I prefer to use a clean boost pedal to adjust my volume up and down for rhythm and for lead and leave the controls set where I think they sound best for clean rhythm playing.  I prefer USA Gibson 57 humbuckers turned down for some reason.  I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy...😎

 

ps. for the intermittent dropouts on the 335, check the 3way as I have had to replace the cheap ones on two guitars with similar controls using a new Swithcraft switch.  The other issue that came up was very tricky and it was in the 4 pot grounding wires. A loose solder joint on one guitar was easy to spot the 1st time it happened.  The second time was a lot more difficult as the cheap thin ground wire had broken inside the insulation cord exterior about an inch back and everything looked good solder wise. Anyway, I would check the pot grounding wires...😎

Thanks Larryz, I plan on pulling the entire harness. At least it's a Studio model so there are no f-holes and there is a large plate on the back for access. 

FWIW, the switch IS a Switchcraft but the contacts may need cleaning, it's been in the guitar since 1988. Also, there is only one pot. So it should be pretty straight forward. I'll clean up everything, resolder some contacts and it will probably spring back to life. 

 

I HUGELY prefer 2 pickup guitars for that reason, you turn both pickups on and then just move your picking around to get different tones. I also love the sound of both pickups. The in-between sounds on a Strat just aren't my thing, others use them and sound great but I always feel like there's something missing. 

[Old Music Guy]

On 5/1/2023 at 11:15 AM, Larryz said:

The pots are labeled "Tone" and "Volume" on all guitars. 

I would guess that the reason for this is not that the pots are different values, but serve different functions. When it's turned over to wire it, it's easy to confuse them. I do that all the time when I do wiring. 

[CEB]

My old 71 Strat I got as a kid has my favorite Strat wiring scheme.  I got the idea from Skunk Baxter.  The switch is 3 way and is wired like a Tele. The   switch only effects the neck and bridge and can be Tele like.  The knobs are:

Front knob is master volume for bridge and neck 

Middle knob blends in the the middle pickup. 
Rear knob is a Master Tone. 
 

One of my favorite slide sounds are all three pickups wide open. 
 

This is also called Memphis Wiring. I think Reggie Young used this setup also. 

[Larryz]

3 hours ago, Old Music Guy said:

I would guess that the reason for this is not that the pots are different values, but serve different functions. When it's turned over to wire it, it's easy to confuse them. I do that all the time when I do wiring. 

@Old Music Guy  Sorry, I meant that the knobs are labeled "volume" and "tone" on all guitars as opposed to the actual pots.  +1 The ones I order for humbuckers both have a value of 500k.  

[Sharkman]

3 hours ago, CEB said:

My old 71 Strat I got as a kid has my favorite Strat wiring scheme.  I got the idea from Skunk Baxter.  The switch is 3 way and is wired like a Tele. The   switch only effects the neck and bridge and can be Tele like.  The knobs are:

Front knob is master volume for bridge and neck 

Middle knob blends in the the middle pickup. 
Rear knob is a Master Tone. 
 

This actually makes more sense than having two tone controls and just one master volume control.  If I ever get a Strat type guitar again someday, I'm going to have this done.

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

13 hours ago, CEB said:

One of my favorite slide sounds are all three pickups wide open. 

Three pickups all on in parallel, especially Strat-style single-coils or P-90 soap-bars, is one of the most Heavenly, lush clean or clean-ish tones one can experience. Played through Vox and a Fender amp simultaneously- or, say, a Matchless and a Tone King like i did in a shop once, nearly attains Nirvana... 💖✨

 

11 hours ago, Larryz said:

@Old Music Guy  Sorry, I meant that the knobs are labeled "volume" and "tone" on all guitars as opposed to the actual pots.  +1 The ones I order for humbuckers both have a value of 500k.  

I think that sometimes, pots of the same values with different tapers have been used for volume and tone functions... ?

[CEB]

Due to part tolerances you need to bench test your pots with a multimeter to know what you really have.  The resistance values printed on the pot is just a general guesstimate LOL. 

[Larryz]

@Caevan O’Shite  +1 on Linear vs Audio taper volume and tone pots.  I prefer the Gibson audio taper pots as I think I can hear the adjustments better.  I also like the numerical top hat and/or speed knob markings. I feel I can hear the tone adjustments better when dialing in the roll-off settings and zeroing in on the volume settings when blending two humbuckers. I use both to get the amount of treble and bass I'm looking for using a 3way switch in the middle position...😎👍

[hurricane hugo]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:11 PM, KuruPrionz said:

The other three pots are used to fill the holes and hold knobs so it looks normal.  

Well if that's the case, might as well make 'em put on a show:

[KuruPrionz]

12 minutes ago, hurricane hugo said:

Well if that's the case, might as well make 'em put on a show:

There's a set of gold top hat knobs on there. Like these but not from Sweetwater...

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1236--Guitar_Knobs?highlight=PRHK020&mrkgadid=&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=1&mrkgcat=drums&percussion&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700073341524483&lid=92700073341524483&ds_s_kwgid=58700008063423979&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=1788203029099&product_id=PRHK020&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&device=c&network=u&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9033359&creative=624396267556&targetid=pla-1788203029099&campaignid=18437397786&awsearchcpc=&&&gclid=CjwKCAjw6vyiBhB_EiwAQJRopss3f5DYtRDVsotXSoQULKHxJPl24MDomdwdEpHLCOMw-kOXLsr8rRoCYmgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[hurricane hugo]

*bump*

 

[hurricane hugo]

Ya gotta love the things that get rolled out for NAMM...

[hurricane hugo]

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:50 PM, picker said:

I'm installing a set of hot rail style 'buckers in a strat that currently has alnico V singles in it. I have heard that I should change the pots from 250k to 500k. Is it necessary to change all three of the pots, or would it work just to change the volume pot?

So, @picker, how'd you make out there with that Strat, those hot rail style 'buckers, and any pots and capacitors?

[hurricane hugo]

 

[hurricane hugo]

anyone recognize these pickups?

 

[Sparquelito]

Hurricane Hugo,

That's the Martyr War Of Wrath Custom guitar by Arda.

Pickups are listed on the Italian company's website as "Mama Custom" humbuckers.

I went to the Mama pickup website, and they don't list them as regularly offered for sale, but the do show them briefly in a streaming slideshow of images, without a name or description. (Lower right of the home page, link below)

https://www.mamapickups.com/en/

I guess you could call the company and ask about them.

Via Marecchiese 1350

47822 Sant'Ermete (RN) - ITALY

mobile 334 36 08 171

info@mamapickups.com

 

[hurricane hugo]

thank you!