Where do I go from Nord Electro HP 73?

[Dave Keys]

Dilemma. I've had my Nord Electro 5 HP73 for about 6 years now for my live rig, with the top board being a Kronos 2 61. The Nord is used for Pianos, EP's, and the odd organ (although from a Pianist background I've never really got into drawbars!)

 

While I love the sound, the look and the portability of the NE5, while I once tolerated the TP100 action, I am now loathing it. To me it's like wading through treacle and it actually tires my hands, and rattles like a bag of spanners. My RD700nx is 10 years old and it's still a joy to play, but is way too heavy to carry for regular gigging, and now lives mostly in my studio. There really needs to be a Roland RD73 or 76!

 

So, I'm considering alternatives. 

Ideally, I want to keep the portability, quality of sound and high endness of the Nord, but with a nicer action. 

The options that have sprung up seem to be, Yamaha CP73/YC73, or the Roland RD-88. I'm also not against the idea of a different Nord with a different action if it has similar dimensions, but they all look the same to me, so any knowledge on that front gratefully received. 🙂

 

I was quite liking the idea of the CP73, but many have said the organs aren't so good, and that the sound is rather 'digital'. The RD-88 is a late entry into the race, but I don't like the idea of a wall wart for a power supply. 

 

Any thoughts from the Keyboard Corner bretheren on here would be gratefully appreciated. 

 

Dave

[CyberGene]

For the sake of completeness there's also the Numa X Piano 73 with TP110 action that is a great improvement over the dreadful TP100/LR. It has nice Rhodes and passable acoustic pianos, audio mixer and USB-audio interface, very compact and lightweight, good price. The organs are nothing special though. But you can always add a VB3m on your iPhone/iPad.

[Stefan011]

The exact reason I got rid of the Nord Electro 5 HP73 too.

 

I liked Yamaha CP73 keybed but sounds not so much.

 

Kurzweil instruments with TP40L like Forte 7 or Artis 7 are very playable, but Kurzweils OS is not for everyone.

 

Havent got a chance to try Numa X Piano 73 yet.

[CyberGene]

I'm on a similar path currently but rather seeking options for downgrading my CP88 to a 73-key keyboard that is lighter. I really *LOVE* the CP88 but its weight is just killing me. Besides, I can't fit it sideways in the trunk of my SUV and so I have to fold the rear seats but I'm losing the rear seats where I drive my gig-mates... I remember I was able to just fit the Studiologic SL73 sideways in the trunk, so this exact size and not even a centimeter longer is the maximum I can afford. Seems only the Numa X Piano 73 is as short at 105cm. But I briefly owned a Numa X Piano 88 and was slightly underwhelmed... No perfect world 😕

[Adam Burgess]

Yes, I almost loved my Arturia KeyLab 88, but the TP100 is just abysmal 😞 
Only thing letting it down was the keyboard haha. 

The TP40 in my old Stage 2 took some getting used to after my CP33, but that did not take long at all.

Tried the TP100 for months and - nah!

The Yamaha keybeds on a couple of P120s I had, and the CP33 were lovely to me.
Not played a Yammy in quite a long time, but generally the CP73 seems to do well.
The Numas I've had through my hands, I just never connected with.

Also - if all 61s played like the Kronos 61, the world would be a much better place.
Korg should do a Fatar and put that action in everything.

[Dave Keys]

30 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

For the sake of completeness there's also the Numa X Piano 73 with TP110 action that is a great improvement over the dreadful TP100/LR. It has nice Rhodes and passable acoustic pianos, audio mixer and USB-audio interface, very compact and lightweight, good price. The organs are nothing special though. But you can always add a VB3m on your iPhone/iPad.

 

Yes it's a nice looking board. Any idea what the build quality is like for the road? 

14 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I'm on a similar path currently but rather seeking options for downgrading my CP88 to a 73-key keyboard that is lighter. I really *LOVE* the CP88 but its weight is just killing me. Besides, I can't fit it sideways in the trunk of my SUV and so I have to fold the rear seats but I'm losing the rear seats where I drive my gig-mates... I remember I was able to just fit the Studiologic SL73 sideways in the trunk, so this exact size and not even a centimeter longer is the maximum I can afford. Seems only the Numa X Piano 73 is as short at 105cm. But I briefly owned a Numa X Piano 88 and was slightly underwhelmed... No perfect world 😕

 

If you are already happy with the CP88, have you not considered the CP73 as a viable alternative? Would be interesting to get your thought process on this one.

[ElmerJFudd]

For a better, more piano-like action you have to add some weight.  Piano centric boards aren’t typically going to have great organs.  The YC88 has better than most.  But it’s comparatively a schlep.  As is the SV2 (which is an improvement over the SV1 for acoustic pianos).  
 

Is the TP-110 actually a noticeable improvement over the TP-100?  
 

Lighter weight are usually plastic builds.  But try the MODX8 or YC73, ES520 or 120, PX360 or 560, FP60X or 30X.  
 

 

[CyberGene]

45 minutes ago, Dave Keys said:

If you are already happy with the CP88, have you not considered the CP73 as a viable alternative? Would be interesting to get your thought process on this one.

Well I actually purchased a YC73 first. But it had a slight defect and I returned it. But there wasn’t a second unit for replacement and new units were expected after three months and the only available CP/YC instrument at that moment was the CP88.

 

I think the BHS action in the 73-keys models is OK but somehow springy. It’s not terrible as the TP100LR though. However the action in the CP88 feels more premium, not so springy, very tight and controlled. But I would sacrifice that for a lighter weight and shorter size and the CP73 and YC73 are in my shortlist now. I don’t see the former available in European stores though and I’m wondering if it has been discontinued. There’s one YC73 available though. But the price has increased to €2300 and I can’t sell the CP easily where I live and will have to ask something like  €1600 and the entire exercise might not be worth it… BTW, I’m not an organ guy and I prefer the CP panel with separate piano, Rhodes and others. On the YC there’s a dedicated organ which I would barely use. And then I’m left with a single keys A/B panel which is reused and needs to be switched between the two voices there. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Dave Keys said:

used for Pianos, EP's, and the odd organ

...

The options that have sprung up seem to be, Yamaha CP73/YC73, or the Roland RD-88.

...

I was quite liking the idea of the CP73, but many have said the organs aren't so good

Unlike your Nord that has a real organ engine, CP73 basically just has a handful of samples organ presets (and average rotary effect). I suspect RD88 organs are of about similar calibre. YC73 gives you much better organs (competitive with your Nord). Also, the YC73 action is more amenable to organ playing than Roland's PHA-4.

 

As for the other sounds you mentioned...

 

...all the piano sample sets of the YC73 are in the CP73, plus more, though you could well end up preferring the pianos that are in both anyway. I generally prefer Yamaha pianos to Rolands, but there is some subjectivity to that, and I haven't played the RD88 in particular.

 

...the YC73 and CP73 have the same EPs, but the YC gives you more in the way of effects and amp simulations to use with them. Again, personally, I'd prefer these Yamaha EPs over any Rolands I've played, but again, I haven't played the RD88 in particular.

 

I'm not bashing Roland, I like a lot of Roland stuff, they just wouldn't be my pick for "piano, EP, and the odd organ."

 

1 hour ago, Stefan011 said:

Kurzweil instruments with TP40L like Forte 7 or Artis 7 are very playable, but Kurzweils OS is not for everyone.

Artis 7 is not TP40L, it's a TP8P (semi-weighted).

 

I like Kurzweils a lot, but if its only for piano/EP and some organ, and there's a preference for hammer action and internal power supply and portability (size/weight) being as close as possible to the Electro 5HP, I think the YC73 is a closer fit. But depending on what you're willing to compromise and what's available at a given budget, any of the PC4/SP6 series boards are arguably worth consideration. (I'd probably take any of them over the RD88 for the task at hand.)

[Stefan011]

41 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

Artis 7 is not TP40L, it's a TP8P (semi-weighted).

You are right, I mixed it with PC3A.

[Dave Keys]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

Well I actually purchased a YC73 first. But it had a slight defect and I returned it. But there wasn’t a second unit for replacement and new units were expected after three months and the only available CP/YC instrument at that moment was the CP88.

 

I think the BHS action in the 73-keys models is OK but somehow springy. It’s not terrible as the TP100LR though. However the action in the CP88 feels more premium, not so springy, very tight and controlled. But I would sacrifice that for a lighter weight and shorter size and the CP73 and YC73 are in my shortlist now. I don’t see the former available in European stores though and I’m wondering if it has been discontinued. There’s one YC73 available though. But the price has increased to €2300 and I can’t sell the CP easily where I live and will have to ask something like  €1600 and the entire exercise might not be worth it… BTW, I’m not an organ guy and I prefer the CP panel with separate piano, Rhodes and others. On the YC there’s a dedicated organ which I would barely use. And then I’m left with a single keys A/B panel which is reused and needs to be switched between the two voices there. 

 

As I write this, I am sat between my Electro 5 HP73 and the RD700nx, trying them both out lol. 

 

Yes, I take your point on the 73 action. I don't mind it not playing like a Bosendorfer as long as the keys are comfortable, don't rattle, and that I can express myself.

 

56 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Unlike your Nord that has a real organ engine, CP73 basically just has a handful of samples organ presets (and average rotary effect). I suspect RD88 organs are of about similar calibre. YC73 gives you much better organs (competitive with your Nord). Also, the YC73 action is more amenable to organ playing than Roland's PHA-4.

 

As for the other sounds you mentioned...

 

...all the piano sample sets of the YC73 are in the CP73, plus more, though you could well end up preferring the pianos that are in both anyway. I generally prefer Yamaha pianos to Rolands, but there is some subjectivity to that, and I haven't played the RD88 in particular.

 

...the YC73 and CP73 have the same EPs, but the YC gives you more in the way of effects and amp simulations to use with them. Again, personally, I'd prefer these Yamaha EPs over any Rolands I've played, but again, I haven't played the RD88 in particular.

 

I'm not bashing Roland, I like a lot of Roland stuff, they just wouldn't be my pick for "piano, EP, and the odd organ."

 

Artis 7 is not TP40L, it's a TP8P (semi-weighted).

 

I like Kurzweils a lot, but if its only for piano/EP and some organ, and there's a preference for hammer action and internal power supply and portability (size/weight) being as close as possible to the Electro 5HP, I think the YC73 is a closer fit. But depending on what you're willing to compromise and what's available at a given budget, any of the PC4/SP6 series boards are arguably worth consideration. (I'd probably take any of them over the RD88 for the task at hand.)

Although I don't delve deep into the organ sounds, I really do like some of them on the NOrd, on things like 'Proud Mary' and 'Gimme Some Lovin'. Maybe it is the YC73 I want after all. It seems more of a worthy replacement. I just need to get into a store and try them out. One of the good things about the Electro is that it fits into an SKB ATA 61 Hard case. The Yamaha's are about 11mm taller. Maybe the padding can take up the slack. 

 

Another thing I wondered was whether the Electro feels even worse because I tend to play standing up. Maybe it's time to adopt a seated posture on stage - getting old man! 

[CyberGene]

Not sure if the keyboard in the RD-700NX is similar to that of the RD-700SX but I used to own the SX and to haul it to gigs a lot 15 years ago, it's still my favorite stage piano, I have very fond memories. I was kind of fit back then, working out in a gym regularly, so didn't mind the 23kg if I remember correctly, however I have a herniated spinal disc and long ago abandoned sports, so I would never buy again such a heavy piano... Even the 18kg of the CP88 cause pain in my back that lasts for days after a rehearsal... I've even considered the Vox Continental Black 73 which is under 10kg and despite having waterfall keys has been praised for piano playing on this forum. BTW, I owned a YC61 for a while too 😀 It had a fantastic waterfall action, I liked it a lot even for piano playing but 5-octaves was just too limiting. If the YC73 was with that action, I would gladly purchase it. Some people say the VOX is even better as a multi-purpose waterfall keyboard. What I don't like though is the lack of USB interface and I use a Mac with Logic to add drum patterns and synths. As I said, no perfect world...

[Noah DC]

Plenty of takes on the Numa X Piano here.

 

I gig regularly with a Numa X 73. Long story short, for me it’s a perfect Swiss Army knife of board with much better action that any HP Nord I’ve played. When I need organ on the fly, I connect a single cable from the Numa to an iPad magnetized to the right panel, activate a zone with one button, and run the 10-dollar VB3 app, which sounds as good as any other organ engine in a bar band setting. 

[jeffincltnc]

I was thinking either a Nord Piano 5 73 or a Korg Kronos 2 73 as a weighted bottom board here.  Lots of options up top.

 

I'm waiting to see what actions are in the new Stage 4 boards.

 

If you can find a Kurzweil Forte 7 in excellent condition it's a great value when looking at the capabilities and sound in relation to the price they sell for in the used market now.  I think that's a sleeper that just didn't really take off and get traction in the market but me and a lot of other people on this forum love them.

[Dave Keys]

4 minutes ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I was thinking either a Nord Piano 5 73 or a Korg Kronos 2 73 as a weighted bottom board here.  Lots of options up top.

 

I'm waiting to see what actions are in the new Stage 4 boards.

 

If you can find a Kurzweil Forte 7 in excellent condition it's a great value when looking at the capabilities and sound in relation to the price they sell for in the used market now.  I think that's a sleeper that just didn't really take off and get traction in the market but me and a lot of other people on this forum love them.

One thing I could do is just get a decent controller for the bottom board, to control the sounds on the Kronos. Isn't quite as exciting though as a fully fledged new board. Cheaper though! 🙂

[Adan]

5 minutes ago, Dave Keys said:

One thing I could do is just get a decent controller for the bottom board, to control the sounds on the Kronos. Isn't quite as exciting though as a fully fledged new board. Cheaper though! 🙂

One advantage of doing that is you can position the boards very close together.  For me, the comfortable ergonomics of that is a major plus.  

 

Having played the Numa X, I'd recommend it for that scenario.  TP110 feels very different than TP100, and I'd say much better.   TP110 much crisper.  It's also pretty affordable, so you can feel better about relegating it to controller status.  The onboard organs on the Numa are not great, so in that sense it's not a competitor with the YC73.

[AnotherScott]

32 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I've even considered the Vox Continental Black 73 which is under 10kg and despite having waterfall keys has been praised for piano playing on this forum. BTW, I owned a YC61 for a while too 😀 It had a fantastic waterfall action, I liked it a lot even for piano playing but 5-octaves was just too limiting. If the YC73 was with that action, I would gladly purchase it. Some people say the VOX is even better as a multi-purpose waterfall keyboard. What I don't like though is the lack of USB interface and I use a Mac with Logic to add drum patterns and synths. As I said, no perfect world...

 

I agree, YC61 is better than most non-hammer actions for playing piano. But besides the Vox, another semi-weighted board that I think is better is the Kurzweil PC4-7 (and presumably the SP6-7 as well). Based on what I know of it, I suspect that the Dexibell S1 is as well. I think the Dexibell may have the USB interface, though my one experience on a different Dexibell using its USB interface for keyboard-triggered-audio is that it had more latency than using the line input for the audio. The PC4-7 does not have the USB interface, but unlike the Vox or Dexibell, it has a ton of MIDI capabilities. It also could give you the option of taking care of your drum patterns without connecting the Mac in the first place.

 

12 minutes ago, Dave Keys said:

One thing I could do is just get a decent controller for the bottom board, to control the sounds on the Kronos. Isn't quite as exciting though as a fully fledged new board. Cheaper though! 🙂

6 minutes ago, Adan said:

One advantage of doing that is you can position the boards very close together.  For me, the comfortable ergonomics of that is a major plus.  

 

Having played the Numa X, I'd recommend it for that scenario.

Numa X could work. At even less cost and lower travel weight (despite having 88 keys), there's the Casio PX-5S as a possible nice feeling capable controller for that purpose, that also has built in sounds, and that's one that can keep the boards very close together. (Also cheaper and lighter than the RD88.) The Casio forum has some nice additional downloadable piano and EP patches that improve on the stock ones.

[Dave Keys]

26 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I agree, YC61 is better than most non-hammer actions for playing piano. But besides the Vox, another semi-weighted board that I think is better is the Kurzweil PC4-7 (and presumably the SP6-7 as well). Based on what I know of it, I suspect that the Dexibell S1 is as well. I think the Dexibell may have the USB interface, though my one experience on a different Dexibell using its USB interface for keyboard-triggered-audio is that it had more latency than using the line input for the audio. The PC4-7 does not have the USB interface, but unlike the Vox or Dexibell, it has a ton of MIDI capabilities. It also could give you the option of taking care of your drum patterns without connecting the Mac in the first place.

 

Numa X could work. At even less cost and lower travel weight (despite having 88 keys), there's the Casio PX-5S as a possible nice feeling capable controller for that purpose, that also has built in sounds, and that's one that can keep the boards very close together. (Also cheaper and lighter than the RD88.) The Casio forum has some nice additional downloadable piano and EP patches that improve on the stock ones.

When you mention getting the keys closer together, is that because I wouldn't need access to the bottom board? Fortunately I can already get these pretty close together thanks to the Spider Pro Stand. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Dave Keys said:

When you mention getting the keys closer together, is that because I wouldn't need access to the bottom board? 

It's that, even if you DO need access to the controls of the bottom board, the control surface of the Casio is so shallow (e.g. compared to CP73/YC73) is that you can operate it without needing to allow for a bunch of clearance to be able to access its controls while sitting under the Kronos.

[Noah DC]

[Ibarch]

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Not sure if the keyboard in the RD-700NX is similar to that of the RD-700SX but I used to own the SX and to haul it to gigs a lot 15 years ago, it's still my favorite stage piano, I have very fond memories. I was kind of fit back then, working out in a gym regularly, so didn't mind the 23kg if I remember correctly, however I have a herniated spinal disc and long ago abandoned sports, so I would never buy again such a heavy piano... Even the 18kg of the CP88 cause pain in my back that lasts for days after a rehearsal... 

I feel your pain. I would have loved to have the RD-700sx but was restricted to the RD300sx because of a bad back. 

A couple of years back I tried gigging with the 61 note A-800 Pro controller and a laptop but didn't enjoy the lack of a proper weighted keyboard. 

I've now gone for the Rd-88 for reason of both weight and cost. It is only 13.5 Kg. Clearly I'm Roland thru and thru and have been since my first board, a U-20. That said, the RD-88 is good in most things. It's not the best in any one area but I haven't found another board that ticks so many boxes. 

If you liked the Rd-700 the RD-88 is worth a proper try. 

[Dave Keys]

3 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

I feel your pain. I would have loved to have the RD-700sx but was restricted to the RD300sx because of a bad back. 

A couple of years back I tried gigging with the 61 note A-800 Pro controller and a laptop but didn't enjoy the lack of a proper weighted keyboard. 

I've now gone for the Rd-88 for reason of both weight and cost. It is only 13.5 Kg. Clearly I'm Roland thru and thru and have been since my first board, a U-20. That said, the RD-88 is good in most things. It's not the best in any one area but I haven't found another board that ticks so many boxes. 

If you liked the Rd-700 the RD-88 is worth a proper try. 

Yeah I'm very curious about the RD-88, particularly for how they managed to get practice speakers in too for such a low weight. I worked out it would fit my existing ABS case for the RD, but the combined weight would still be 28 kg. The length however would only be 21cm longer than the 73 note Nord. 

[Dave Keys]

Bit of an update: My original idea was to get rid of my Nord Electro because of the horrible action. I use the Nord for Band gigs, and the RD700nx for lounge Piano gigs. The Roland is too heavy to carry, more so with the hard case.

One board won't quite cover both. The YC88 comes closest.

 

I've just spent 4 hours at Fairdeal Music in Birmingham Testing out the RD88, CP88 and YC73. Being a Roland man, the RD88 I so wanted to like; speakers and the Roland sound in a 13.5kg package - what's not to like? I'll tell you what - the PHA3 Standard action. I took an instant dislike to it - stodgy and inconsistent, not unlike the Nord. I tried putting it on the lighter settings to see if that could help me live with it, but no. Definitely off my list.

 

Then I came back to the CP88. What joy. Beautiful, responsive graded action. I played for ages on it. I then went off to play on the YC73, expecting not to like it as much after the CP but I was equally blown away by that action too, and played for ages on it. Resistant yet light, even action across the board. Controls so intuitive and easy to use.

Also tried the Nords again while I was there - the Stage, the Nord Piano and the Nord Grand. The quality of Nords sound is beyond question to me and their ease of use is trailblazing  - but none of them felt nice to play in terms of action. 

 

I was tempted to go with the YC88, but having drawbars to go with a Graded Hammer Action didn't quite compute for me. Plus, It makes my Band gig rig an extra 10 kilos heavier than the Nord setup, as I have to bring in a bigger case.

 

So, I've gone for the YC73 for the Band gigs, and am seriously considering trading in the RD700 for a CP88 for the sit down Piano lounge gigs. It is quite an extravagance, but I've not seen a Stage Piano that has the weight, feel and sound combination that the CP88 has. 

 

My wallet says no! My Head and heart say yes! lol