Controlling your soft synths (and plugin chain). How do you do it?

[Tusker]

Whether you are using a Fishman Triple Play or a Roli Seaboard or a Nord Stage or a Linnstrument , there is that moment when you want to control some "control" that you see on the screen of your computational device. Right?

 

What are the ways with which you do that? What are the ways you would like to do that? Are you happy with the process you use?

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your approach (es).

[Tusker]

Kuru asked if this would extend to all plugins and of course it does.  Many are saving patches in their DAW or Host which contain a signal chain of multiple instruments and effects plugins from difference sources.

[ABECK]

Most plugins that I've wanted to control have some kind of MIDI learn function.  Click the parameter on screen, turn the knob on controller, save the config.  Repeat.  This is of course predicated on the assumption your controller is connected via USB midi, or 5 pin DIN.

[Stokely]

I'm interested to see what people say.

Honestly right now I mostly do everything after playing a part, and do it via drawing automation in Logic Pro (where all the inner parameters ranging from the expected (cutoff, resonance) all the way into the oscillator settings, envelopes, etc are exposed.)  The exception is that sometimes I use the mod wheel on my controller.

Same with fx, I automate after placing them.  For example, having a delay only audible on the last line of each verse, I might turn up the send just at those times, using the automation line for the send amount, dragging the points.   I learned mixing by moving faders on non-automated analog boards but I don't really miss it  

All that said, I'm sure I could spice up some performances or even some mixes by doing it more "on the fly".

Edit: yes as far as fx chains, I could be saving things as "channel strips" but I haven't really done it just yet.  Logic lets you organize your plugin list so I put the ones I use most in an easy to access spot, and then I tend to do quite a bit copy/pasting of channel strip settings.   I also do bus processing using summing stacks so that's less to do on individual instruments.

 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

there is that moment when you want to control some "control" that you see on the screen of your computational device. Right?

 

Since my rig is all virtual instruments and effects I play from a controller keyboard, I don't want to work "some control"; I need to work all controls! This includes turning on & off different VIs, calling up presets, adjusting levels, reverb amounts, etc. I manually assign CCs and PCs from my Roland A800 to do this. When I have to map a controller to a new parameter, I definitely have to display the assignments I've already made to make sure I don't use the same number! You have to work a little to keep track of things like this, but it's not that big a burden.

[CyberGene]

I program my patches in such a way that they can be controlled through only three controls:

 

1. Aftertouch

2. Mod wheel

3. Pitch bend but not for actual pitch bending, just as yet another mod source

 

I don’t believe that I need a controller with hundreds of knobs and sliders that I tweak in real-time. I can’t do that, my brain is not that good. And while programming patches I don’t mind using screen controls with mouse/trackpad  since I want to see labels and values on the screen.

 

So, for an actual performance the three above are more than enough for me and that means I’m fine basically with any MIDI controller that supports AT. For instance I use a cheap Nektar GXP49 that serves me pretty well.

 

Here’s a recent example of a recording I made with a piano and synth. The synth patch I created on the U-He Diva and programmed it like this:

 

1. Aftertouch controls the filter and the vibrato LFO

2. Mod wheel controls oscillator shape

3. Pitch bend controls filter and volume. 
 

So, pitch bend gives me a reference filter control, AT provides a relative brightening on top of it, while mod wheel sets the general character of the sound. I use the Hydrasynth as a controller but I actually programmed it for my Nektar, it just was in a corner of the bedroom (my “studio” 🤦🏻‍♂️) where it couldn’t be shot for the video. 

 

 

[JamPro]

Does the question apply only to live use or in the studio?

 

In the studio, I automate certain synth and plug-in parameters by drawing continuous controller data onto the track that hosts the synth/plug-in.  This gives me very tight control over the synth/plug-in parameter, and means I can exactly reproduce the desired sound(s) anytime I want.

 

Obviously, this would not work in a live  music setting.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Midi learn for some CC's, particularly for orchestral VI's when I'm recording parts from my controller, but aside from that, everything is click-and-drag with the mouse for me. I guess I'm used to it enough that I don't really mind not having physical knobs - maybe that's a side effect of not having started with physical recording equipment and just going straight to plugins/DAW operation. This is studio use - I don't use softsynths live (so far).

[KuruPrionz]

Note: I am using soft synths for recordings I'm working on. I'm not real deep into the synth world and certainly not a adept keyboardist. Doesn't mean I don't love the sounds and I find them useful often.

I'm currently using either a Fishman Triple Play on guitar or an XKey 25, which does not have MIDI controller knobs. 

One of my strategies is to find 4 synths with notably different preset ADSR envelopes and sounds and open all 4 in Triple Play. 

Typically I chose a lower frequency for a fast Attack time and go from there with at least one synth having a long Sustain and Release time and various swelling and "bubbling" sounds to decay into. Then playing one note in Triple Play triggers an interactive, shifting sound that I enjoy. 2 or more notes can become huge and engaging.

I use the XKey for chord punches, just one synth at a time. I'll tweak the individual sounds a bit more there although I'll admit to a tendency to hunting down a preset that doesn't need much tweaking to sound good in the mix I'm working on. 

 

I have 18 synths available on Triple Play. Probably a couple more for the DAW, Spitfire Audio LABS stuff didn't seem to work well with Triple Play but is fine with the XKey.

Arturia Analog Lab V -  not full version presets -knobs

Arturia Augmented Strings - Presets, knobs

Tracktion Collective -  Presets, knobs

Crystal - Presets, 5 tabs, siders

Dexed - Presets, LOTS of knobs, a few sliders and switches.

CA Eight Voice Presets 230 knobs, over 50 switches.

Izotope Iris 2 Presets 30+ knobs, lots of buttons, a couple of sliders, some great visual interfaces

NI Kontakt Player 7 - 19 different soft syths - 1 is Soniccouture Array Mbira the rest all NI. Different interfaces.

NI Massive, HUGE preset library, mostly knobs, some sliders and switches.

Newfangled Audio Pendulate - "Squares with arrows instead of knobs" Works fine and easy to see the settings.

IK Multimedia Miroslav Philharmonik 2 - 8 knobs, can be used in 2 different ways so 16 knobs total. Sample player more than a synth.

u-he Podolski Presets, Lots of knobs. great synth!

IK Sampletank - Tons of preset sounds, not many knobs

Surge Presets ALL sliders!!!!

IK Multimedia Syntronik presets knobs and sliders depending on function.

u-he Triple Cheese presets, knobs

MOK Waverazer knobs, presets

u-he Zebralette knobs

[ABECK]

Update:  My previous reply was in the context of live playing.  If I'm mixing in a DAW, I'll either use mix automation and "move" sliders or pots with my mouse, one at a time, or I'll draw automation curves (eg, like if I want a clean fade, or tempo based panning, etc..)

[johnchop]

I've got a 24" touchscreen monitor, so I get by with that most of the time, at least for quick, somewhat broad changes.

 

I'm yet to find a really satisfactory solution on the hardware side that doesn't involve mapping. I usually map a handful of macros if the VI supports them, and I try to map consistently (a knob for filter/overall brightness, one for timbre adjustments, one for effects depth, etc.). I don't want to think too much when I'm playing.

 

Kore was pretty cool, but NI dropped it.

VIP was less cool but worked well enough for me (and still does for many VST2 plugs) but Akai/inMusic effectively dropped it.

 

If MIDI 2.0 + CLAP integration materializes, I can envision a controller where parameter discovery + assignment could be done from the hardware itself, or when you want to tweak something very specific but don't want to click around a screen.

[Stokely]

For live, on my hardware keyboards I rarely change more than cutoff and play around with vibrato on the mod wheel.  So softsynths would likely be the same.   Most of the work would already be done in programming the patch. 

 

That said, on keyboards with many controls (my old Virus, Summit) I have been known to do more tweaking live, mainly for fun as the mood hits.  I had relatively few patches on my Virus because I felt comfortable tweaking them so quickly from song to song.   That keyboard also had excellent, very "playable" aftertouch as an additional control, the best I've owned by a fair margin (I expect it was a combo of hardware and the programming.)

[Tusker]

1 hour ago, ABECK said:

Update:  My previous reply was in the context of live playing.  If I'm mixing in a DAW, I'll either use mix automation and "move" sliders or pots with my mouse, one at a time, or I'll draw automation curves (eg, like if I want a clean fade, or tempo based panning, etc..)

 

I too have different approaches for different purposes. For live playing I am more like Cyber Gene, programming the expression into a patch so that I can use one or two controllers to shape the sound as it evolves. For the DAW, I use a pedal for swells but then I over-write my pedal movements with smoothe automation curves.

 

I am trying to play the DAW notes live a bit more than I used to, only because it's sometimes tricky to imagine the lines if the dynamics don't follow. I tend to overplay if I don't have expressive control after the note is struck. (the habit of pianists and guitarists)

[Tusker]

54 minutes ago, johnchop said:

I've got a 24" touchscreen monitor, so I get by with that most of the time, at least for quick, somewhat broad changes.

 

John, that's really interesting! Are you using a Raven or something similar? I understand the Slate Ravens are Logic Pro compatible. The Wacom Cintiq 22 looks like it can serve the same functions. In the early days of getting to know a soft synth, I feel the burden of hunting and pecking with a trackpad/mouse. After I know the interface, not so much.

[Tusker]

14 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Note: I am using soft synths for recordings I'm working on. I'm not real deep into the synth world and certainly not a adept keyboardist.

 

K, that's a huge list for somebody who is not really deep into the synth world. 👍 I've been thinking about Massive. Would you recommend it? Do you use a pedal or other controller to shape sound, or do you get most of your response off the strings?

 

I used to play with a chap who was quite adept with an E-Bow. He would also do pedal swells with a Roland Space Echo. (A Steve Howe fan.) 

[KuruPrionz]

56 minutes ago, Tusker said:

 

K, that's a huge list for somebody who is not really deep into the synth world. 👍 I've been thinking about Massive. Would you recommend it? Do you use a pedal or other controller to shape sound, or do you get most of your response off the strings?

 

I used to play with a chap who was quite adept with an E-Bow. He would also do pedal swells with a Roland Space Echo. (A Steve Howe fan.) 

It is a pretty big accumulation but I picked up most of them free or on special. Play the long game and stuff piles up!!! 😃

Massive IS Massive, I'm not sure my left field recommendation is worth doodley-squat but I can say for certain that you should download the demo and see what you think, then wait for the sale. Now that the holidays are over the next big sale for NI will come this summer. 

Every Christmas season they have giveaway software that they later put up for sale. I got Hypha synth free this year, the only other one I remember is Raum reverb (nice!) but I probably have some stuff in Kontakt Player that they gave away for the holidays. 

 

I have no controller or pedal for MIDI stuff (yet). I've let a good friend borrow my Akai MPK25 which does have that stuff but she can actually play keyboards and needed one.

I may get it back at some point or I might get a more modern unit down the line. I like the XKey for the ability to just set it up on a cluttered desk and bang out some sounds, it's tiny and since I'm not really a keys player the keyboard is fine with me. 

 

I do have an E-Bow, haven't gotten around to synthing with it yet. It's awesome on regular old guitar, including steel string acoustic. There's nothing else like it. 

 

The Triple-Play is a bit of a tricky beast. It took me a while to figure out that the glitchy attack was being caused by using a heavy pick. It becomes a "movable fret" and for an instant on the attack there is a split point on the string where there are 2 notes (one on either side of the pick) popping out before the string settles and that brief blast translates into a glitchy, splatty noise. I've learned to use the pads of my fingers, they don't have the same effect and the results are much cleaner. 

 

While I haven't really done this yet, there's no reason I couldn't just pull Triple Play and drop a synth plugin into the MIDI track that's been created. Above somebody mentions using automation tracks to change MIDI settings, I could be doing that as well and might as well if I'm recording. Another experiment!!!!! 😇

[johnchop]

2 hours ago, Tusker said:

 

John, that's really interesting! Are you using a Raven or something similar? I understand the Slate Ravens are Logic Pro compatible. The Wacom Cintiq 22 looks like it can serve the same functions. In the early days of getting to know a soft synth, I feel the burden of hunting and pecking with a trackpad/mouse. After I know the interface, not so much.

 

I use this one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkVision-T24T-20-Touchscreen-Monitor/dp/B09QCL771L

 

Works well for me as an Ableton user, and when displaying GUIs at > 100% scale (which helps my aging eyeballs regardless).

 

Not every software UI works the way I want. HALion Sonic does acknowledge the right-click gesture, and some GUI elements have really small target areas. Otherwise, it tracks really well for slider movements, knob spins, preset navigation, etc. I've been meaning to do a video sharing my experience... maybe this month?

 

I mouse all the livelong day, so it's refreshing to use what amounts to a big tablet for music work. For a pro with a rapid-fire workflow, I'm sure it would be more hindrance than help, but I much prefer it for sound design and DAW control.

[EricBarker]

This is the problem I’ve found with soft synths and controllers. I bought a Keylab88 thinking “oooh! I’m going use all of these sliders and knobs for different things and control in real-time. Then I can’t for the life of me remember what they are. On a hardware synth with dedicated controls, I’m pretty good at tweaking in real time, but workstations just suck, either software or hardware. At least with hardware workstations, manufacturers tend to be more consistent, and even label their knobs a bit, but it’s not great either.

 

So yeah, I’m with most that I use Pitch, Mod, AT, and an expression pedal for my patches, and that’s it. No complex mapping.

 

The one exception is B3s, I always have drawbars.

[Al Coda]

3 hours ago, EricBarker said:

I’m going use all of these sliders and knobs for different things and control in real-time. Then I can’t for the life of me remember what they are.

 

^^^^^

THIS !

And it drives me nuts !

Not enough, there are never enough physical controller haptics available for any given software device,- and you´ll have to store controller maps for every single one of these devices AND you´ll have to remember what all these mappings are for because not every controller keyboard offers clear names for the mappings you´d need to load quickly.

 

Handling of software rigs is lightyears BEHIND handling of large hardware rigs,- at least depending on complexity and for me.

(Your) milage might vary ...

 

 

A.C.

 

[Anderton]

9 hours ago, johnchop said:

Kore was pretty cool, but NI dropped it.

VIP was less cool but worked well enough for me (and still does for many VST2 plugs) but Akai/inMusic effectively dropped it.

 

...for the same reason keyboard companies rarely make rack modules anymore. People didn't buy them. 

 

At my seminars, I often ask how many people use a control surface, and how many mix with a mouse. It's always at least 20:1 in favor of the mouse.

 

As I've mentioned before, MIDI 2.0 has the potential to make controllers easy and consistent to use. As to if or when that happens, I have no idea.

[EricBarker]

You’d have to standardize and implement many things across the board for it to make sense. First off, many software packages seem to have universal midi mapping, which drives me nuts. U-he Diva does this: I’ll set filter cutoff for one instance, and then it’ll change it for ALL instances, so I‘ve suddenly made all of my patches volatile. It makes me not want to do any MIDI mapping at all. Also many synths can’t set ranges.

 

Then, there’s no feedback to controllers. Encoders often don’t have LED collars, and even if they did, there’s no standard to light them up from the mapped synth. But none of this is that helpful because there’s no way of contextually labeling your controllers. In a perfect world, Controllers would have little LED readouts below each one, with their mapped controller. If all of this was implemented and standardized, THEN we’d be getting somewhere.

 

But the sad reality is, no one cares, because 90% of this shit is built for bedroom studio producers, who don’t care about real-time performance anyway. As gigging software keyboardists, we’re unicorns. No one caters to our needs, we’re just trying to cobble together the leftovers meant for basement hobbiests.

[David Emm]

22 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Note: I am using soft synths for recordings I'm working on. I'm not real deep into the synth world and certainly not a adept keyboardist. Doesn't mean I don't love the sounds and I find them useful often.

I'm currently using either a Fishman Triple Play on guitar or an XKey 25, which does not have MIDI controller knobs. 

 ...

I have 18 synths available on Triple Play. Probably a couple more for the DAW, Spitfire Audio LABS stuff didn't seem to work well with Triple Play but is fine with the XKey.

Arturia Analog Lab V -  not full version presets -knobs

Arturia Augmented Strings - Presets, knobs

Tracktion Collective -  Presets, knobs

Crystal - Presets, 5 tabs, siders

Dexed - Presets, LOTS of knobs, a few sliders and switches.

CA Eight Voice Presets 230 knobs, over 50 switches.

Izotope Iris 2 Presets 30+ knobs, lots of buttons, a couple of sliders, some great visual interfaces

NI Kontakt Player 7 - 19 different soft syths - 1 is Soniccouture Array Mbira the rest all NI. Different interfaces.

NI Massive, HUGE preset library, mostly knobs, some sliders and switches.

Newfangled Audio Pendulate - "Squares with arrows instead of knobs" Works fine and easy to see the settings.

IK Multimedia Miroslav Philharmonik 2 - 8 knobs, can be used in 2 different ways so 16 knobs total. Sample player more than a synth.

u-he Podolski Presets, Lots of knobs. great synth!

IK Sampletank - Tons of preset sounds, not many knobs

Surge Presets ALL sliders!!!!

IK Multimedia Syntronik presets knobs and sliders depending on function.

u-he Triple Cheese presets, knobs

MOK Waverazer knobs, presets

u-he Zebralette knobs

 

Holy crap, look who threw the world of softsynths at a wall and played what stuck! Its not 18, as Kontakt contains 19. Sampletank and Syntronic add even more. You have major Synth Bloat, like the Mr. Creosote diet of Everything Plus A Thin Mint.

 

That impudence aside, I was looking at MY list and its no lightweight either, but a lot of it is the simpler Logic synths I never use. I've got 12 main instruments, one of them the huge cheat of Sampler (EXS24), which contains a small mountain of my choicest samples of many years. I pretty much have the palette I need.

 

I keep leaning towards orchestral dabbling with added synth sauce, so many intriguing new instruments still end up feeling like video games to me.  

 

While I could take up a controller with more assignable knobs, I'm satisfied to play my XKey and mouse things into shape afterwards. I don't have much need of CC knobs for real-time use because my sounds are 98% playable as-is, having been tweaked beforehand. I can just cackle & screech while laying down the notes. I'm the scowling Conlon Nancarrow of the synthesizer.

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, David Emm said:

 

Holy crap, look who threw the world of softsynths at a wall and played what stuck! Its not 18, as Kontakt contains 19. Sampletank and Syntronic add even more. You have major Synth Bloat, like the Mr. Creosote diet of Everything Plus A Thin Mint.

 

That impudence aside, I was looking at MY list and its no lightweight either, but a lot of it is the simpler Logic synths I never use. I've got 12 main instruments, one of them the huge cheat of Sampler (EXS24), which contains a small mountain of my choicest samples of many years. I pretty much have the palette I need.

 

I keep leaning towards orchestral dabbling with added synth sauce, so many intriguing new instruments still end up feeling like video games to me.  

 

While I could take up a controller with more assignable knobs, I'm satisfied to play my XKey and mouse things into shape afterwards. I don't have much need of CC knobs for real-time use because my sounds are 98% playable as-is, having been tweaked beforehand. I can just cackle & screech while laying down the notes. I'm the scowling Conlon Nancarrow of the synthesizer.

You are correct, it's a buttload of synths and I forgot to mention that I also have Kontakt Player 6, which has a few that 7 did not load (and vice versa) so I keep them both around. 

More than anything else, by far, I use IK MODO Drum (which I guess is a synth too since it uses both sampling and modeling for the sounds) or NI Studio Drummer which sounds like all samples, really nice. A simple pop rock country reggae song seems elementary until you start trying to create a legitimate drum track so you can play a proper bass line etc. etc. 

I gravitate towards orchestral sounds as well. For my Mac Mini at home I just got Spitfire Audio's Epic Choir for $17, it was just too cool to pass up. 

I've got an IK Orchestral Percussion sound bank residing in Sample Tank, haven't gotten much use out of either yet but it's coming. 

Everything else you can think of is in SampleTank plus more, it's crazy world. 

Which means I could just drop 4 instances of SampleTank into my Triple Play, load each instance with 8 sounds, drive latency through the roof and sound just like everybody all playing at once (which is why I don't do that!!!!). 

 

This is an amazing new world for musicians. I think you have to abuse your privileges beyond all reason to understand why you might be better off musically by keeping a more limited track count. I still push those limits when tracking but mixing brings me back to the "Does this actually sound good or is it just blatherspew?" world. 

Deleting is almost the easiest part of the process.

[David Emm]

4 hours ago, EricBarker said:

This is the problem I’ve found with soft synths and controllers. I bought a Keylab88 thinking “oooh! I’m going use all of these sliders and knobs for different things and control in real-time. Then I can’t for the life of me remember what they are. On a hardware synth with dedicated controls, I’m pretty good at tweaking in real time, but workstations just suck, either software or hardware. At least with hardware workstations, manufacturers tend to be more consistent, and even label their knobs a bit, but it’s not great either.

So yeah, I’m with most that I use Pitch, Mod, AT, and an expression pedal for my patches, and that’s it. No complex mapping.

 

Similar mental template here. The solution already partially appears on the Hydrasynth: separate OLEDs with knobs under them. The issue would be those who ached for 20 of them. That wouldn't come at all cheap, but then, its instant hard-vaporware. Many of OUR greybeard ideas for hardware solutions would be alien to younger players and not likely to be widely adopted. 

 

Most of the complex mapping I've heard didn't make a huge impact on the songs anyway. Your basics are where they breathe the most, the Osmose excepted. That's a breakthrough approach that intrigues me. Its not about how many parameters you can control, its how immediate the results are to the listeners.

[David Emm]

1 minute ago, KuruPrionz said:

>> For my Mac Mini at home I just got Spitfire Audio's Epic Choir for $17, it was just too cool to pass up. 

 

Likewise. Its a modest thing, but its also some of the best Mellotron Helper I've heard. I can't reasonably drop $600 on the full Whitacre choir, but I'd give 2 rounds of plasma to buy a $300 in-betweener. Hah!

 

1 minute ago, KuruPrionz said:

 

>> I think you have to abuse your privileges beyond all reason to understand why you might be better off musically by keeping a more limited track count. I still push those limits when tracking but mixing brings me back to the "Does this actually sound good or is it just blatherspew?" world. 

 

That's been the overriding conundrum for every composer since the main axe of choice was a boulder.

 

1 minute ago, KuruPrionz said:

Deleting is almost the easiest part of the process.

 

You would think that one could improve over time and need to do less of that. I still laugh at how many times a piece comes together AFTER I figure out where I most need to musically STFU.

 

 

[Reezekeys]

49 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

4 hours ago, EricBarker said:

I’m going use all of these sliders and knobs for different things and control in real-time. Then I can’t for the life of me remember what they are.

 

^^^^^

THIS !

And it drives me nuts !

 

I got my softsynth rig together years ago and decided to standardize what parameters I was going to control, and which controls on my A800 I would use for those parameters. I've kept this assignment the same as much as possible. Fortunately, I do 99% bread & butter gigs with the same basic sounds (mostly acoustic or electromechanical samples). My controls are mostly for turning sounds on & off and adjusting levels, occasionally calling up presets, and triggering song files or percussion loops to play with.

 

I liken the abundance of controls on my keyboard to any instrumentalist's physical relationship to their instrument. Sax players instinctively reach for the correct keys to play the notes they want; I apply the same principle with the knobs, sliders, buttons & pads on my controller. It's all one entity, your instrument. In most cases we have the ability to assign this stuff however we want - so do what makes sense to keep things logical and simple, and stick with that until the controls become second nature. That's my tip of the day! 🙂 

[KuruPrionz]

Well, I forgot that I recently picked up Cherry Audio's GX80. I haven't even opened it yet but I will. 

Everybody seems to love it, I do remember listening to 10cc's Bloody Tourists album and loving the keyboards, if I'm not mistaken that's a CS-80. 

[Al Coda]

13 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

occasionally calling up presets

 

 

How do you call up presets of dedicated virtual instruments w/ the Roland A-800 WHEN in need to hit a specific MIDI Prg.-CHange number in a specific program bank?

It drives me nuts scrolling thru programs by using the MIDI Prg-Ch. function and the rotary encoder and prefered jumping to a given PrgCh. number, changing the patch in a fraction of a second.

 

 

A.C.

 

[Tusker]

I am enjoying hearing about the myriad ways to control your sound and learning from the different approaches. I like to think of it in three levels. Each level is equally valid.

 

First level - Note-ons, and Velocity - we trigger notes but we are not controlling the shape of the note myself. This is the most pianistic/guitaristic level of control. Sometimes that's all we need or want.

Second level - Additional control is brought by manipulating midi CCs or pitch directly in real time. So you might be moving a slider or depressing a pedal to change the texture and pitch of the sound. This is more like a wind instrument, bowed instrument or vocal level of control. If done right (see excellent example by Cyber Gene above) it can carry a melody very effectively.

Third level - Even more control is brought in by manipulating automation which manipulates the controllers which affect that sound. The automation could be LFOs, MSEGs, envelopes or sequencers. It could be changing LFO rates, MSEG shapes and sequencer "meta" patterns, sometimes on the fly. This level of control is possible only with synthesizers. You hear it in rhythm beds, where rapid 16th notes or 32nd notes can be widely different from each other. It's kinda wasted on melodies, unless you smooth the  automation into a slower, more lyrical shape though that is also possible.

 

I love to do this is with Reaktor as a MIDI effect in Logic Pro or MainStage. Here Reaktor's curve sequencer and shift sequencer are affecting the timbres and notes of another synth, in this case Repro-1. The same effect is possible within the DAW itself by drawing in curves, but an analog style sequencer can turn on a dime and surprise you and your listeners. It's dangerous in a good way. Basically you can jam with it by "playing" the knobs and it's fun, because you are exploring a bit of tuplet math or timbral contrast very quickly. This piece of automation won't be for the duration of the song. It's just a rhythmic "break" for a few measures, kinda like a drum solo. It's not for everyone but it's something that only synthesizers can bring to a party ...

 

 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, Al Coda said:

How do you call up presets of dedicated virtual instruments w/ the Roland A-800 WHEN in need to hit a specific MIDI Prg.-CHange number in a specific program bank?

 

To be fair, I probably don't need to do this a lot as I load up all my sounds at the beginning of a gig and just enable/disable them with the A800's buttons. I do have some presets that use PCs to select them, but luckily I've never needed more than seven - so I use the pads on the A800 assigned to send program changes. On my Mac, Bidule is where my actual "presetting" takes place - it uses the PCs from the A800 to change presets I have in various modules to route, channelize, transpose, enable VIs, etc. On my iPad/iPhone I use Midiflow, which uses the A800's PCs to select its own presets that can route, channelize, transpose, re-map midi messages, etc. then send to AUM where my virtual instruments live.

 

As you've probably seen, the A800 is pretty flexible with its ability to assign its controllers to PCs - they can send plain PCs, bank select & PCs combined, also PC "increment" and "decrement" messages. I've never needed bank select for the gigs I do.

 

1 hour ago, Al Coda said:

It drives me nuts scrolling thru programs by using the MIDI Prg-Ch. function and the rotary encoder and prefered jumping to a given PrgCh. number, changing the patch in a fraction of a second.

 

Here's another somewhat undocumented A800 feature. You can send any PC number directly (without bank select unfortunately). It involves the keypad which you may notice has numbers in faint grey text underneath the buttons (absolutely invisible on a stage!). The one at the bottom left is labeled "SHIFT." With the two arrow keys at the top, move the cursor in the display to "PGM CHANGE" if it's not there already (that's where you've been doing your scrolling). Press and hold "SHIFT", then you have a numeric keypad to type in a PC number (0 - 127) using those almost invisible numbers. Continue to hold SHIFT, then press the "enter" knob to the right of the display. There's your PC, maybe not in a "fraction of a second"! 🙂 In addition to the numbers being almost invisible, the layout is completely different from a standard numeric keypad! Better than nothing?