M-Audio Keystation 88es - Fatar keybed? Which one?

[Reezekeys]

That LX88+ looks interesting, 18 lbs and semi-weighted. The GXP88, smaller and without faders, pads & encoders, is also 18 lbs.

 

All new actions take getting used to. At this point I'm good with any unweighted or semi-weighted that has some resistance, fast return, and no lateral movement. Maybe I'll run into one of those Nektars, I'm getting the itch to bring an 88 to a gig but light weight is a prerequisite! 18 lbs seems pretty good for any 88.

 

I finished the job on my friend's Keystation 88es and all is well. I swapped some contact strips from the lower & upper part of the keyboard with the middle, as I figured the top & bottom contacts get less use so might have more life in them.

[Justin Havu]

I was going back and forth between the LX88+ and the GXP88, which lacks the control surface as you mentioned, but has aftertouch.  AT would be nice, but I really wanted an affordable 88 with a control surface and an action that didn't suck ( <cough>Keylab88<cough> ).  The LX88+ is nice and smooth, has just a little resistance, but doesn't feel springy or spongy to me, and there's plenty of control for synth/B3 stuff.  I would probably prefer if the wheels were a little bigger, but again, not a big dealbreaker for me.

[Reezekeys]

The LX was looking good then I saw no expression pedal input. Lack of AT I can handle but I think that no pedal input might be a deal-breaker for me. It's just weird that the keyboard they equip with more "stuff" is lacking that one extra bit which the less expensive model has. I also see the LX lets you attach two switches to its single switch input - that's nice.

 

I looked around the nektartech website and saw no reference to a Mac or WIndows program for setting up controller assignments on these keyboards - so everything must be programmed from the keyboard itself? The GXP's system where keys are assigned to set functions and enter values is a little cumbersome (I know it's used by a lot of keyboards). That's not that big a deal since I would tend to set things up at home and my setups stay pretty constant, but if there were some emergency at a gig (on a dark stage?!), that might be a problem! Ironic since my Roland A800 requires its computer editor to set up certain parameters - you can't do some of them from the keyboard's panel.

 

4 hours ago, justin_havu said:

I really wanted an affordable 88 with a control surface and an action that didn't suck ( <cough>Keylab88<cough> )

 

Isn't that Keylab88 a weighted hammer-action board that costs over $1000? Seems like a different category of controller.

 

I guess this thread has taken a bit of a left turn, oh well!

[John H Carter]

GXP88 is a very poor quality keybed, not much travel, and very tiring over extended playing time. I just keep as a spare now.

 

[drawback]

I had an LX88 for a minute. The keybed didn’t lay flat, in fact it arced up in a wave around middle C, probably a quarter inch higher at the crest. Back in the box and FedEx’d the same morning it arrived. Wouldn’t risk a replacement and no expression input would’ve been a drag anyway, in hindsight. 

[Reezekeys]

Thanks for the heads-up guys. What can you expect for an 88-note controller in this price range, I guess?

 

This all started when I got my friend's old Keystation 88es to fix. I actually thought the action was fine for me. Semi-weighted and using springs, but it had noticeably more resistance than my Roland A800 - iow, more "piano-like." The key travel was a little longer than my A800, and the increased resistance meant the springs were pulling harder, which I assume is why it was fairly easy to do fast repetitions.

 

Unfortunately for me I don't think there's a practical way to A/B that action with any of the current crop of controllers in this lower price range. The more I think about it, it might make sense to try and find one used. At least I know how to get it apart quickly and fix the contacts!

 

14 minutes ago, drawback said:

I had an LX88 for a minute. The keybed didn’t lay flat, in fact it arced up in a wave around middle C, probably a quarter inch higher at the crest.

 

This might speak to rockmanrock's comment earlier in this thread regarding M-Audio ditching the steel rails of the keybed assembly for plastic in their "Mk3" model. The 88es is 22 lbs vs the Mk3's 14 and Nektar's 18.

[John H Carter]

I currently use a Numa Compact 2x, nice semi-weighted action with aftertouch. Not in same budget range though.

[Reezekeys]

Yep that was on my list of 88s to consider. Nothing wrong with a board you can turn on and have sounds to play immediately. Then I got my Native Instruments piano happening on my iPhone- so that feature became less of a necessity!

 

I’m looking at a brand called Icon right now. Very slim design, aftertouch, expression pedal jack, metal chassis, not big bucks. Hoping to hear more about it. 
 

https://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8Nano/

[drawback]

These companies that ship controllers with no power supply… argh! For iOS players it’s another piece or workaround. 🤨

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, drawback said:

These companies that ship controllers with no power supply… argh! For iOS players it’s another piece or workaround.

 

It's not really another piece for me, I use the USB3 Camera Connection Kit to connect my iPad or iPhone to my controller. As you probably know, it has a lightning port to connect to a charger. The charger delivers enough juice to keep my i-device's battery charged and power my controller. While I've read that some USB midi devices can run from the iPad's battery, trying that with my A800 got me the alert "this device uses too much power", so I'm always using either the charger or a 10,000maH battery bank to keep the juice flowing.

[stoken6]

15 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I’m looking at a brand called Icon right now. Very slim design

We complain about actions that have a fulcrum too near the playing surface - those Icon boards take that to the extreme! I would be surprised if the action/playing experience meets your standards.

16 hours ago, John H Carter said:

I currently use a Numa Compact 2x

The older Numa Compact 2 (without the X and without the organ capability) would suffice as a controller, and less $$$ as well. (You lose aftertouch iirc).

 

Cheers, Mike

[Reezekeys]

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

We complain about actions that have a fulcrum too near the playing surface - those Icon boards take that to the extreme! I would be surprised if the action/playing experience meets your standards.

 

The Numa looks pretty similar in its slim design - I wouldn't be surprised if it used the same action as the Icon. Fatar TP9?

 

http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_9PIANO.htm

 

Notice the Icon has no buttons or other controls on top - just a few on the side along with the pitch & mod wheel. That tells me it doesn't need the real estate, depth-wise. I've probably been playing a similar action on my little Roland controllers the last 16 years. That and my standards are low! 🙂 

 

 

[Justin Havu]

On 12/31/2022 at 11:49 AM, Reezekeys said:

I looked around the nektartech website and saw no reference to a Mac or WIndows program for setting up controller assignments on these keyboards - so everything must be programmed from the keyboard itself?

 

Correct.  The control assignments are done on the keyboard.  You simply press SHIFT + SETUP, which puts the keys into setup mode.  Press C2 (the manual says it's C1, but we know better, lol) which enables Control Assign.  Then, move a control or press a button.  The display will show that control's CC setting, which can then be changed by either using the keys labeled + or -, or using the keys labeled 0-9 and pressing the Enter key.  The drum pads can also be mapped to CC settings instead of MIDI notes.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 11:49 AM, Reezekeys said:

Isn't that Keylab88 a weighted hammer-action board that costs over $1000? Seems like a different category of controller.

 

My bad, I was referring to the Essential 88.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 11:49 AM, Reezekeys said:

The LX was looking good then I saw no expression pedal input. Lack of AT I can handle but I think that no pedal input might be a deal-breaker for me.

 

That's understandable.  I have two low-end ProLine expression pedals that I bought back when I got my Motif XS6, just cause.  Funny, I don't really use them that much, though.  Sadly, I'm not sure of any 88-key semi-weighted controller out on the market that even has an expression input.  Everyone's needs are different, though.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 12:26 PM, drawback said:

I had an LX88 for a minute. The keybed didn’t lay flat, in fact it arced up in a wave around middle C, probably a quarter inch higher at the crest.

 

Mine is laying pretty flat on my desk.  The front of the chassis, however, is slightly bowing upward just around the middle C octave, just above the keys.  I didn't really notice it until yesterday, so I guess it really isn't a deal breaker for me.

 

[hrestov]

Numa compact 2 also have an audio interface. Class compliant. So it’s good for iPhone, iPad. It’s a good master. And the internal sound are ok, for backup. 

[Reezekeys]

The Numa C2 is definitely on my radar. I'm curious if the audio-over-USB connection adds perceptible latency when playing iOS instruments, over & above the buffer setting in my iOS host (AUM).