Thinking about using an iPad...

[Stokely]

I had a separate thread about Setlist Maker, but figure I'll mention it here instead.

I bought it and the Midi add-on and started working with it.  No real problems getting it to send program changes to my Modx, although the PC number is one off from the number the Modx reports (and it doesn't matter if I select 0-127 or 1-128 in the SLM options).  No biggie, once I create the patch it's out of sight and mind. I haven't tried songs in a "layout" but I changed a setting so that selecting a song invokes the midi presets attached to it (not sure why you wouldn't want that but I'm sure there's a reason).

 

This will take a lot of the "look ahead" stress out of the gigs.  It also makes me just a bit more inclined to consider adding a tabletop synth or more ipad apps (assuming it can send Program Changes internally to a synth app running on the same ipad).  And if something goes haywire I'll still have my patches in Modx and SK Pro quick access slots and can grab them manually.   Very impressed with the app so far.

[stoken6]

15 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Pretty much what a modern iPad can do, without all the outputs of course.

I think there's still a degree of complexity with the software ecosystem around iPad - for this particular situation. As I posted a couple of years ago, MainStage for iPad would be a great offer from Apple. Plus if they want to subcontract/co-brand an audio/MIDI interface with USBC power delivery, they could charge a tidy markup on that.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

13 hours ago, Stokely said:

Very impressed with the app so far.

Yes it's a solid piece of software - reliable and versatile. Support from Arlo is good too. I'm happy to pass him $12 or whatever per year for the basic edition. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Mills Dude]

19 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Yes. I know I posted something here a while ago wondering if someone could make a keyboard controller with a built-in dock for a tablet - one that automatically connected power and audio, no fussing with cables, dongles or adapters. Perhaps with a multi-output audio interface in the body of the keyboard. I think that right now Macs/PCs still have the edge for top-shelf plugins and sounds but the gap is closing.

Akai had the Synthstation 49 out about 10 years ago. But looks like the idea was abandoned as it only supports the old iPads with the original connector (pre lightning) up to iPad 3, I believe.  I bought the other model for my son, Synthstation 25, that you could plug an iPhone or iPod touch into.

 

I didn't spend much time with it. The idea was flawed in that, I think, it only supported the Akai software on IOS. But I wholeheartedly agree that its beyond time for some manufacturer to tap this market as IOS has matured, iPad dominates the tablet market and musos are using them much more than 10 years ago.

[hrestov]

Before Camelot I have used Set list Maker, for scores and patch change. It’s good (you can change the range from 0-127 to 1-128 if you want). 
Now I use Camelot also for score, it’s ok also this. Set list Maker have the auto scroll function that is good, Camelot no, so I have to use another workflow. I use a pedal to change patch, score, and start eventually backing tracks. 

[Reezekeys]

22 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

On 2/4/2023 at 3:29 PM, Reezekeys said:

Yes. I know I posted something here a while ago wondering if someone could make a keyboard controller with a built-in dock for a tablet - one that automatically connected power and audio, no fussing with cables, dongles or adapters. Perhaps with a multi-output audio interface in the body of the keyboard. I think that right now Macs/PCs still have the edge for top-shelf plugins and sounds but the gap is closing.

Akai had the Synthstation 49 out about 10 years ago. But looks like the idea was abandoned

 

22 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

I wholeheartedly agree that its beyond time for some manufacturer to tap this market as IOS has matured, iPad dominates the tablet market and musos are using them much more than 10 years ago.

 

I remember the keyboard. It was probably a little ahead of its time! Back then there was no AUv3, Audiobus, AUM, Camelot, etc. Now my iPad & iPhone has replaced my laptop for all my gigs. I think most would agree the plugins are not at the level of the top Mac/PC offerings and you probably won't see Spitfire strings ported to i-devices, but if someone came out with a small & light ≧61 key controller (otherwise a deal-breaker for me) with the same complement of sliders, buttons, knobs & pads as my Roland, I would probably buy it. I really like my little setup, but I still have to fuss with setting up my iPad clip stand, then attach the CCK dongle, thread & connect the cables & power adapter, etc. Imagine a small lightning or USB-C cable coming out of the keyboard, plug it in, boom, done.

[EricBarker]

I just tried out the iPad with the Crumar Mojo61, and while I got it to work, I'm starting to get cold feet. It's gonna take a lot of physical setup to get this to work cleanly, and even more to make the setup easy. My goal was to create a physical setup, sort of like a pedal board, but that would semi-perminantly velcro to the top of the Mojo (since there's space up there. The Mojo and iPad audio feed into a stereo AB switch pedal that my friend miraculously had (they're rare and hand made). With a click of a button I switch between inputs. My idea is to wire in the iPad hub and Mojo output up there and just leave it, using ziptie, velcro, and other things to hold it down, using only right-angle plugs into the Mojo so I could pack it into its case without unplugging everything, or else this would be a real hassle, and the whole point of this is to be able to make my life easier, right?

 

Some issues I ran into:

- The iPad audio out is significantly quieter than the Mojo, even maxed out. This means I'm going to need to keep the Mojo volume knob low. I can digitally boost the gain with a plugin, but I suspect the DAC is just not very hot, and would clip.

- The Mojo actually puts out different midi and velocity data depending upon what instrument model you're using. Obviously the organ model doesn't have velocity, but I didn't expect the MIDI output to change as well. I have to leave it on the EPiano models to correctly output Velocity to the iPad. Not a huge deal, but something I could easily forget and BLAST people with 127 piano!

- The cabling is just a Rube Goldberg monstrosity. My end goal is to plug in one power splitter and the Mojo and the iPad get power. But this means mounting the Crumar power brick, and a USBC power cable, as well as attaching the USB, Midi Cables, AB Pedal, Behringer Xtouch (which is bigger than I thought). Even if everything works, I have this nagging suspicion that it's not going to be as plug-and-play as I'd hoped.

Then the looming reality... Nord... I got to play an Electro 5 this weekend at a friend's house... I loved it. It absolutely fit the bill for everything I need. I also located an in-state Nord dealer who told me they could get it to my town for free. I'm all ready to go. The only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger TODAY is NAMM. We all know there's a decent chance that Nord is going to bump up the line this year, and I'm just gonna fall apart if I've just bought a Stage3C. With the gigs coming up, I kinda need this yesterday, though.

 

So here are my current options:

A) Soldier through with this iPad mod, I've already sunk about $200 into it anyway (software and hardware). There are, after all, some nice possibilities for long-term travel, since this would practically allow me to use any board.

B) Go back to using my MacBook with the Keylab on a 2-tier setup. It's a bitch to setup, and I'm a floating head over the top of the K&M Spider, but I know it in & out.

C) Just buy the F***ing NORD now and don't wait for NAMM. Cry later.

[Stokely]

It's definitely easier to make it all work with a keyboard like the Modx.  I wish all keyboards had a built-in interface.  I could get away with one cable, although I generally bring another one to power the ipad just in case.

When I used B-3X, I had no volume issues.  The Modx master volume is generally at 3:00, and the internal sounds and maxed-out IOS sounds were comparable in volume.  From testing, other apps like Zeeon and Model 15 had plenty of headroom.

Now I'll need a hub I guess to get Setlist maker to be able to talk to two keyboards.  Getting more "fiddly".   But it's definitely going to be nice to send program changes from one spot, all in order to match the set list for the night.  As long as everything ipad-related (including the ipad) can easily go into my Modx bag pocket, and it only takes a minute or two to set up, not bad, but minutes add up.  The annoying part is making the cables neat against my stand legs   

A laptop gets even more fiddly with several cables and a separate stand for the thing.  And probably nobody will notice any sound difference other than me.  I definitely prefer having all sound come from the keyboards themselves.   But geez comparing the price of say a new Fantom against an ipad I already own plus a 10 dollar app...that's where I start wobbling!

[Reezekeys]

25 minutes ago, Stokely said:

When I used B-3X, I had no volume issues.  The Modx master volume is generally at 3:00, and the internal sounds and maxed-out IOS sounds were comparable in volume.  From testing, other apps like Zeeon and Model 15 had plenty of headroom

 

Yea I find it odd to hear the iPad volume is low - my 9G, with its old-school headphone jack puts out plenty of signal to feed my QSCs or Altos. I do remember an inexpensive 3rd-party lightning dongle with a 3.5mm audio output that was very low (I returned it).

[EricBarker]

I should specify, this is a 11in iPad Pro, WITHOUT a headphone jack, I'm going into a USB-C Hub that has a headphone out. Might be significantly lower volume than a Lightning iPad with a headphone jack

[stoken6]

29 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Now I'll need a hub I guess to get Setlist maker to be able to talk to two keyboards.  Getting more "fiddly".   But it's definitely going to be nice to send program changes from one spot, all in order to match the set list for the night. 

Do either of your keyboards have a "THRU merge" function - where anything appearing at the MIDI in is merged to the MIDI out alongside anything played on the keyboard? That would save you the need for a hub.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Reezekeys]

11 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

I should specify, this is a 11in iPad Pro, WITHOUT a headphone jack, I'm going into a USB-C Hub that has a headphone out. Might be significantly lower volume than a Lightning iPad with a headphone jack

 

Is the volume also low when you connect headphones to that hub and listen to audio from different apps on the iPad? Headphone outputs as a rule should be mid-to-high line level. Sorry to hear of your troubles. For me an iPad setup exists to make my gigging life easier; less and lighter stuff to carry along with easy setup. Reading your post about velcroing and the cabling mess makes me wonder if it's all worth it too. Good luck!

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, EricBarker said:

there's a decent chance that Nord is going to bump up the line this year, and I'm just gonna fall apart if I've just bought a Stage3C

Not a snark but: why? Any keyboard is just as capable the day after its successor is announced as it was the day before the announcement. If the Stage 3 works for you (and - more to the point - you can afford it), then who cares what else is announced?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

22 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Do either of your keyboards have a "THRU merge" function - where anything appearing at the MIDI in is merged to the MIDI out alongside anything played on the keyboard? That would save you the need for a hub.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Good question, I did consider it. Neither of my keyboards have an actual thru port, though it's possible the out might act as one.

Also, the Modx has some weird limitations on using midi OR usb...I'm not sure about receiving, but I'm pretty sure you can't transmit both.  It's a global choice.  Not one of my favorite features of the machine.  

Fortunately I only need an unpowered hub, and I have a small one that I'll just leave connected to the camera connection kit and both usb cables and roll the whole thing up.  Just need to fix it up so it isn't dangling off the back.   This is where my column stand would support and hide  it for me, but the Omega is open.

An x factor in my rig is the fact that my Key Largo also has an interface, but I've heard conflicting info on whether it works with IOS devices.  It does work with my laptop.   I could try it with a powered usb hub (that could potentially stay hooked up ready to go on the pedalboard next to the KL...)

[EricBarker]

47 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Not a snark but: why? Any keyboard is just as capable the day after its successor is announced as it was the day before the announcement. If the Stage 3 works for you (and - more to the point - you can afford it), then who cares what else is announced?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

This is what I'm starting to come around to. Frankly, the S3C does pretty much everything I could possibly hope for and then some. It mostly comes down to options and minor sacrifices. If they came out with an 88 with physical drawbars (unlikely) that MIGHT sway me to get an 88. If they came out with unlimited split points or some trigger pads or MPE support, that would open up some occasional possibilities. But this is splitting hairs. The other reality is, if Nord DOES announce the stage4, it won't be out for months after that, and the news would only postpone my purchase of something I frankly needed YESTERDAY. So screw it, I shouldn't wait.

April contains 2 things: NAMM and Taxes. I was going to hold out until after Taxes, but I could just do those early and see where I stand. I recently got a pretty hefty raise, which is why this is now within reach.

I can always resell and upgrade down the line, the one caveat is living in Fairbanks, Alaska, the ability of easy resell is limited, but that's minor.

[stoken6]

18 hours ago, EricBarker said:

I can always resell and upgrade down the line, the one caveat is living in Fairbanks, Alaska, the ability of easy resell is limited, but that's minor.

Just make sure you keep the original box, and it's easy to ship. Frankly Nord commands ridiculous secondhand prices, so you won't lose much.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[EricBarker]

Yeah, I have a lot of storage space here, so I always keep boxes for big purchases.