No love for Genos here? (and some personal ramblings)

[Jose EB5AGV]

Hi all,

 

As some of you may recall, I am a beginner player (four and a half years now, starting from zero) and, just last 21st July, I played on my very first gig, using a Montage 6, in a pop/rock band setup (so, except for a couple intros and some synth heavy moments, I was mostly hidden among other players sounds 😅)

 

That is just an introduction to get some background. Well, as I began just shy of my 50th birthday, and luckily my work and family situation let me do it, I began buying plenty of gear (later I discovered it was an acute GAS period 😅). So, as I had no real clue back then of what I would be able to achieve musically, nor what was the best instrument to get... I got a full set 😇. My first keyboard instrument in February 2018 was a SY77 but, in short time, I got a Genos, a DGX660, lots of 80s and 90s synths (DX7, DX11, SY85, D50, M1, ... about 25 or so). Also plenty of rack units (TG77, EX5R, Triton rack, Motif XF rack and 15 or so more). And then I bought a used Montage 6 (black, the white one arrived next year). I forgot!. In February 2020 I bought my lovely Yamaha U3H also.

 

So, from 2/2018 to about 7/2020, I got an stash of gear (and I forgot to mention the plethora of MIDI controllers and Virtual Instruments...) and set up three places at home to play them, two for electronic gear and one for the acoustic piano. Now most of the classic synths with keys are in storage, rack ones are in one of the setups, along the VPC1, Montage 6 (white) and Genos. That is my most used music place. Montage and Genos are on a double deck K&M support, Genos on the lower level.

 

And, finally (sorry 🙏🏻) that is what has triggered my question: when I got the Genos, I had just it and the SY77. So I began playing mostly piano sounds on it. But then, as I began to attend piano lessons, I found I needed a weighted keybed, so the DGX660 arrived (it was later replaced by the U3H). Since then, the Genos has been played only occasionally, using it with styles to play some pop and rock arrangements. I have found that, for my band playing, the arranger functions have no use and, except for having some nice SA sounds and 76 keys, I think the Montage is a better instrument for my needs there.

 

But, at home, as I am advancing on my playing, I think the Genos still has some place and perhaps can be a good instrument for any solo playing I may do here, just for friends and family... Or for some future composition works.

 

I see there is little interest on this instrument in this forum. I guess most professional players manage to do all their work without the arranger functions (please, correct me if wrong 🙏🏻)

 

Sorry for the long rambling... Now you know my musical gear turbocharged trajectory to these days. And how dangerous is to discover a hobby late in life, when you can afford to acquire almost all the gear you fancy 😆

 

Jose

 

PS: I am no rich to any extent, but have managed to raise some extra cash working hard (I work for myself) and selling some items I didn't need, in order to afford all the musical gear. Which, BTW, except for the DGX660 and the Genos, have all been bought used, most at very good prices

[Stokely]

Wow, that is a lot of gear in a short time frame.   I recommend this:  get something good, learn it really well.  Then supplement whatever is missing, after you've squeezed everything you can out of it.    I've learned this the hard way not with hardware gear but with software--I ended getting so much stuff on Black Friday and other sales that I forget I even purchased it at times.   These days I do have my go-tos, while a lot of my plugins gather virtual dust. 

I have not used (or even seen) a Genos, so no thoughts on that.

I think because I spent some time way back (late 80s into the 90s) wiring up midi and audio for a couple studios that I can't go back--the convenience of software instruments is just too great of a thing.   Trying to get a room full of gear to get back to a certain state for a session--patch changes, sample loading, multi-timbral modes on rack units, storing and restoring sysex,  etc etc--was a challenge.  Not to mention our consoles were not automated so I had to set up the non-midi tracks too.   These days I pull up a Logic Pro project and it saves all of that for me, I don't need to save changes to patches or anything 

That said, a room full of gear can be inspiring and I do miss that (though my live keyboards kind of fill that void a bit if I bother to set them up.)

[GovernorSilver]

Genos is a great arranger keyboard, but as the top-of-the-line arranger that costs $6000, I think you can understand why most of the membership here would rather spend money on a nice clonewheel, some Nord thing, a Vent, etc.

 

If there are professionals on this forum whose jobs demand the capabilities of a Genos or Korg PA4X/PA5X, they have been very quiet, or may simply be socializing elsewhere.   I have an arranger myself, but it is the more modest Yamaha PSR-SX600.

 

If you love making music on your Genos, you need no other justification for keeping it.

[Wrrtyuuiioop]

You are on the wrong forum for the Genos, you would be better supported on the psrtutorial.com forum which has specific sections on the Genos and the other Yamaha models.

[cassdad]

Wow.  I want one for my solo playing!

[AnotherScott]

The closest board I've used to a Genos is a Korg PA1000, which I like a lot, even though I've never used it as an arranger. It's one of the few lightweight "rompler" boards with aftertouch, and it's got reasonably loud speakers which sometimes comes in handy, and I like the sounds. It also does some of the nice behavioral tricks in acoustic instrument emulations, similar to what Genos does with SA2 and Roland does with SuperNATURAL Acoustic.

 

If it weren't $6k, I'd have considered Genos. No speakers, but I'd really have liked 76 keys, and the SA2 and Ensemble voices are temptations. I have no philosophical objection to using an arranger without using its arranger functions... if it's got the sounds I need, a nice user interface for selecting them, and a reasonable action to play them from, and isn't too heavy to cart around, I'm open to it, even if it also does a whole bunch of other things I don't care about. Heck, I've owned numerous workstations, and never touched the sequencer. But for strictly the kind of live performance board I'd use it for, $6k is steep.

 

 

[Tusker]

I have a friend who is an advanced pipe organ player, who uses the Genos for a number of “semi-classical” and “folk” gigs. He doesn’t use the arranger functions. He likes the sound quality and the ease of getting to sounds.

 

It’s a tool. If it works for you, then it’s good.

[ElmerJFudd]

The Genos is a great board.  I don’t typically make use of arranging features and it’s very expensive.  That’s really the crux of it.  If I had dollars bursting out of my pockets I’d own one for sure. 

[Stokely]

I honestly have no clue what an "arranger" even is, I'm guessing it plays tracks (?)  No interest from me in that case.  However, as with AnotherScott, I've owned a number of workstations and haven't used the sequencer once on any of them.  (or arps or motion sequences for that matter, as my band doesn't play to a click so those would be hard to use.)   They just happen to have a wide range of sounds, and they let you layer and split those sounds more than keyboards in other genres.

[ElmerJFudd]

34 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I honestly have no clue what an "arranger" even is, I'm guessing it plays tracks (?)  No interest from me in that case.  However, as with AnotherScott, I've owned a number of workstations and haven't used the sequencer once on any of them.  (or arps or motion sequences for that matter, as my band doesn't play to a click so those would be hard to use.)   They just happen to have a wide range of sounds, and they let you layer and split those sounds more than keyboards in other genres.

Pretty much - they are loaded with pre-created content in many styles of music that follow your chord changes.  You have real time control over when to jump from one section of the form to another.  Verse Chorus Bridge, etc.  A great tool for solo acts and for singer song writers to bang out demos.  

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, Biggles said:

You are on the wrong forum for the Genos, you would be better supported on the psrtutorial.com forum which has specific sections on the Genos and the other Yamaha models.

 

Yes, I know that Forum, I am also a member. My question here was because it seemed to me that people here did not care about that keyboard and I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that for pro-keyboard players it made no sense. But seems that just for the quality of sounds, even don't using the arranger functions, it may be a good one to use. I will keep on my initial idea of using the Montage 6 for my future gigs, but will get back to playing the Genos. Who knows, it could become my preferred board!

 

I am very blessed of having this kind of problem, if this may even been called a problem!

 

Jose

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

Genos is a great arranger keyboard, but as the top-of-the-line arranger that costs $6000, I think you can understand why most of the membership here would rather spend money on a nice clonewheel, some Nord thing, a Vent, etc.

 

When I bought it, I paid about 2600€ for it. It is still a large amount, but very far from the $6000 you quote. I guess that is manufacturer list price. All in all, I understand your point, it is not the wiser buy for knowledgeable people. But I was not (nor I am now) such... I am glad I got it, because it opened a new world of sounds and possibilities, even if I can't make full use of them. But, let's say, having a Ferrari in the garage is nice, even if you are an average driver!

 

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

If there are professionals on this forum whose jobs demand the capabilities of a Genos or Korg PA4X/PA5X, they have been very quiet, or may simply be socializing elsewhere.   I have an arranger myself, but it is the more modest Yamaha PSR-SX600.

 

This is the thing I noticed...

 

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

If you love making music on your Genos, you need no other justification for keeping it.

 

Yes, by now, I will keep it and now I am even more interested in playing it again, just to see what has happened during those couple years I have almost not touched it. I have advanced on my playing but, to what extent?. Interesting to find out!

 

Jose

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

20 minutes ago, EB5AGV said:

 

When I bought it, I paid about 2600€ for it. It is still a large amount, but very far from the $6000 you quote. I guess that is manufacturer list price. All in all, I understand your point, it is not the wiser buy for knowledgeable people.

 

 

I wouldn't quite put it that way, because I cannot assume that all people who bought a Genos or Korg PA4X/PA5X are not knowledgeable with regard to songwriting, composition, arrangement, production, etc.

 

Keyboard playing is not my speciality, but I feel like learning how to use my PSR-SX600 arranger and practicing with it has improved my playing.  The process of learning which left-hand chord shapes will trigger particular chords - dom 13th, minor 9th, slash chords, etc. - has also given me some good exercise on identifying chord tones and extensions.

 

Before I bought my arranger,  I did search various forums to learn more about arranger keyboards, and found much more knowledge and enthusiasm - compared to here (I do like this forum though!) - with regard to the Genos on, well, the Genos forums here:

 

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php

 

There's also this one, although it appears to be a little less active:

 

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=160

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

I wouldn't quite put it that way, because I cannot assume that all people who bought a Genos or Korg PA4X/PA5X are not knowledgeable with regard to songwriting, composition, arrangement, production, etc.

 

 

Point noted, it was really not a great phrasing on my side

[Dave Bryce]

I always preferred Pat’s to Geno’s.

 

Sorry….I’m a Philly boy.  Couldn’t resist… 

 

dB

 

 

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

Before I bought my arranger,  I did search various forums to learn more about arranger keyboards, and found much more knowledge and enthusiasm - compared to here (I do like this forum though!) - with regard to the Genos on, well, the Genos forums here:

 

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php

 

There's also this one, although it appears to be a little less active:

 

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=160

Here's another forum, not specific to Genos/PSR, but still specific to arrangers: http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/category/5/The_Arranger_Keyboard_Forums and they also have a Yamaha sub-section.

 

[GovernorSilver]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Here's another forum, not specific to Genos/PSR, but still specific to arrangers: http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/category/5/The_Arranger_Keyboard_Forums and they also have a Yamaha sub-section.

 

 

Probably like you, I also used Google to find forums related to Yamaha arrangers when I got mine.. I found that forum too.

 

The PSRTutorial forums are the most active that I found.  An arranger user who needs help can reasonable expect answers to questions within a few days.  Last post on the sub-section you mention was dated early June - which does not inspire confidence in getting timely replies.

 

 

[Mills Dude]

I'll admit to having been biased against arranger style keyboards.  I find that the older I get the more I question my biases as they just seem to provide no good value for me.

 

Why a bias against arranger keyboards?  Some reasons I can think of

1. I never saw my idols using them (not that they existed in the 70s).  But if Tony Banks, Rick Wakeman, or Keith Emerson had used something like that, maybe we'd all be using them today.  Also, in general, I just don't see any pros using them.
2. I'm colored by those early Casio keyboards with their schlocky rhythms and one touch chord arrangements.  They were toys, sold like hotcakes, but I never took them seriously.   Probably why it took so long for me to accept Casio Privias as legitimate instruments, which is that bias thing working against me yet again.  I'm probably not alone in this feeling.  I've come around and I'm a big fan of the Casio offerings.
3. They gave off that Vegas lounge act vibe, kind of karaoke, one-man band schlockiness.  So relating back to the other points, I'd established a mindset that if you want to sound like a lounge act you get an arranger but serious pros wouldn't touch one.
4. As touched upon already in this thread, the good ones are insanely expensive.  They may be worth it, but its got too many features I wouldn't use and dumping > $5K on a single instrument is a huge investment.  I could by a digital stage grand and rompler on top and have $$ left over for a self monitoring system.

So there's some reasons and I just never thought of them as viable instruments for serious players.  While there may be some truth to the points above, still a lot of preconceived bias.

 

I was staying in China a few years ago and saw a lot more use of arranger keyboards.  I think in Asia and possibly Europe there's more acceptance of these instruments.  Seeing arrangers used in different contexts that I actually enjoyed changed my mind about them.  While In China, I used to eat at a Thai restaurant regularly that had live entertainment.  One regular act was a German guy backing up a singer.  He used a Korg PA4X and man, did he make it sound great.  He was a good player with obvious command of the instrument and could make it sing.  I remember loving the Rhodes sound he got out of it and could make it bark or chime when he wanted.  His rhythmic arrangements were fantastic.   

 

Seeing how that instrument could be used changed my mind about their usefulness and prompted me to look at why I never had high esteem for them before.

 

I just wanted to explore your inquiry about why there's not a lot of discussion here about these instruments and give some of my personal perspective.   It won't change anything.  The simple answer is probably because not many of us that frequent here use one.  

[Mighty Motif Max]

Way back when I thought I wanted a Tyros 5 instead of a Motif XF...I grew up with a CVP-305 Clavinova with all sorts of bells and whistles, etc, and thought that what I wanted for gigs was a portable version of that (I was 10-11 at the time). But they didn't make an 88-key version, so I started looking elsewhere and went down the workstation/synth route instead. What I will say about modern arranger boards in general is that they usually have really good sounds, especially for solo acoustic instruments with all sorts of articulations and behaviors programmed/modeled. But often they max out at 3-4 parts split/layered and such so they're not ideal as an all-in-one stage piano for more complicated setups. The "styles" or accompaniments are a lot of fun, but I wouldn't gig with them now, just because I hit a point where I couldn't reproduce what I was hearing in my head with pre-made styles (or custom styles I programmed for that matter). In a way. moving away from those features forced me to learn how to actually play the piano better, and voicings and such. Not saying that arranger boards are for people who aren't as skilled; it's just a different way of doing things that suits some more than others. The styles aren't generally that cheesy, believe it or not; I have noticed though that as more recent Top 40 pop songs make their way into the factory styles that those styles seem kind of locked to specific songs that I associate them with.

 

On the Genos specifically, I played one for some time at a Guitar Center a few years back. I thought it felt great and sounded pretty good, but there was no way it was worth the $5,500 price tag. Granted, the nice CVP-709 top of the line Clavinova at the time was around 14K, so maybe in comparison it wasn't bad. But it's a nice board to be sure.

[Adam Burgess]

I have a Korg i3 (newer model), and it's a fantastic little keyboard that's got me thru a few great gigs that otherwise would've meant programming drum tracks, and extra rehearsals with a singer who hates to/can't work to the 'original forms'. All a lot of work for a couple of dates.

Would I rather have bought a Genos or P4X - absolutely. I think they're awesome. They're massive, heavy, and complex if you dig really deep, but when has that ever stopped a keyboard player?! But, my little Korg is a great sounding ROMpler; it weighs nothing, and was stupidly cheap. Handy thing to have around.

[Jon E]

Had a Genos for a couple of years and if you don’t intend to use the arranger features of it I would say the sounds is good, maybe on par but not better than any newer workstations. The pricing now is ridiculous, bought mine for about 3.300 euros and sold it for the same amount two years ago. It’s fun to play solo but in a band context most of the features are not really relevant.

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, Jon E said:

Had a Genos for a couple of years and if you don’t intend to use the arranger features of it I would say the sounds is good, maybe on par but not better than any newer workstations. The pricing now is ridiculous, bought mine for about 3.300 euros and sold it for the same amount two years ago. It’s fun to play solo but in a band context most of the features are not really relevant.

 

You are right!. Have just checked and current price on same large German online dealer I bought it for less than 3000€ in 2018 (I incorrectly wrote on a previous message 2600€, but it was in a bundle, and I would say it was closer to 2850€), lists it now at 4280€ and available in 12-16 weeks!. So it seems I made a good buying after all 😲

 

Trust me, this thread has greatly boosted my interest for my little used Genos. Thank you all!

 

Jose

[ElmerJFudd]

Id imagine they are also great to practice with short of having a band to play with.  More interesting than a metronome, more convenient than backing tracks.  

[pjd]

Didn't expect this many comments to read and respond...

 

I play a Genos, mainly in the studio. Arrangers are good practice and educational instruments. For many people, the left hand chord aspect is their way into basic harmony and theory. Although I don't use the auto-accompaniment that much, the registration system calls up everything for practice against an existing track. (Montage/MODX could learn from this.) The FSX action is the same as Montage and I enjoy playing it more than MODX, which I take to my church gig.

 

I got into Yamaha arrangers by way of the old QY-70, which is perhaps the best Yamaha sequencer (ever). Yamaha's upper-end arrangers have similar sequencing capabilities including a chord track. I can enter a lead sheet and practice. The Genos Chord Looper is really handy, too. It tirelessly plays a progression for practice or fun.

 

As to styles, today's factory styles aren't too bad, but are still lacking in soul, funk, funky jazz, and the rest of the music that I enjoy most. So, I got into creating my own styles:

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/motif-styles-for-your-arranger/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/free-djx-ii-styles-version-2/

 

Yes, the styles are based on patterns and performances from Motif XF and the DJX. Definitely fresher than the Genos factory styles. Ironically, most of the bread and butter Motif XF arpeggios are deconstructed Tyros and PSR styles! (Arpeggios for electronic-oriented genres were lifted from Yamaha beat boxes or newly created.)

 

As to price, I bought Genos from an independent dealer (USA) for less than MAP. The final price was in line with Nord Stage 3 Compact 73, my reference point for premium keyboard price. Shop around and don't just click "Add to cart". 🙂

 

Sorry 'bout the length of this post -- pj
 

[GovernorSilver]

6 hours ago, pjd said:

As to styles, today's factory styles aren't too bad, but are still lacking in soul, funk, funky jazz, and the rest of the music that I enjoy most. So, I got into creating my own styles:

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/motif-styles-for-your-arranger/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/free-djx-ii-styles-version-2/

 

Yes, the styles are based on patterns and performances from Motif XF and the DJX. Definitely fresher than the Genos factory styles. Ironically, most of the bread and butter Motif XF arpeggios are deconstructed Tyros and PSR styles! (Arpeggios for electronic-oriented genres were lifted from Yamaha beat boxes or newly created.)

 

 

Thanks for posting these!  

 

I look forward to trying these styles with my Yamaha PSR-SX600, although it looks like I have to learn some things - like how to get SFF files from the computer into the SX600.  Looks like USB connection does not mount the SX600 as an external drive.  I guess I'll have to try copying to USB stick then plugging the stick into the SX600.

[Wrrtyuuiioop]

There is a new kid in town that blows the Genos into the last century.

 

Korg released their brand new from the ground up Arranger a few weeks ago.

 

Korg Pa5X.

 

Available in 61, 76 and 88 key versions.

 

Just because there are onboard Styles to provide auto accompaniment does not mean that they have to be used, it is very easy just to have the drums and if required the bass to play along.

 

The drum rhythms have a Round Robin feature that offers variation that you will not likely get if you are using a standalone drum machine.

 

For a one many band a top quality arranger makes sense, no taking half a music store to a gig, just take your Pa5X, mike, stands and PA system and you are good to go.

 

I’m biased I see very little point in a shed load of kit at home if all you want to do is to make music, one Arrangef keyboard and my laptop and/or iPad is all I need.

[pjd]

23 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Thanks for posting these!  

 

I look forward to trying these styles with my Yamaha PSR-SX600, although it looks like I have to learn some things - like how to get SFF files from the computer into the SX600.  Looks like USB connection does not mount the SX600 as an external drive.  I guess I'll have to try copying to USB stick then plugging the stick into the SX600.

 

Glad these will help you out. I usually move styles over on USB flash drive. There is an old program, Yamaha Musicsoft Downloader, which can transfer files directly. (Via MIDI!) The user interface is old and clunky, tho'.

 

I tried to create styles that are compatible with older arrangers, but occasionally, you might need to select a different voice or DSP effect. These are not chicka-boom. I got comments about the Funkhunters style, in particular. The Yamaha sound designers put a drum pattern into EPiano. Think 70's Mahavishnu or Julian Priester.

 

Factory styles must appeal to a broad audience or range of customers. After making styles, it's hard to make a style with wide applicability that doesn't sound like musical Ambien. 😀 Funkhunters demonstrates that an arranger does not have to sound like Grampa Joe. 😉

 

All the best -- pj

 

[GovernorSilver]

29 minutes ago, pjd said:

 

Glad these will help you out. I usually move styles over on USB flash drive. There is an old program, Yamaha Musicsoft Downloader, which can transfer files directly. (Via MIDI!) The user interface is old and clunky, tho'.

 

I tried to create styles that are compatible with older arrangers, but occasionally, you might need to select a different voice or DSP effect. These are not chicka-boom. I got comments about the Funkhunters style, in particular. The Yamaha sound designers put a drum pattern into EPiano. Think 70's Mahavishnu or Julian Priester.

 

Factory styles must appeal to a broad audience or range of customers. After making styles, it's hard to make a style with wide applicability that doesn't sound like musical Ambien. 😀 Funkhunters demonstrates that an arranger does not have to sound like Grampa Joe. 😉

 

All the best -- pj

 

 

I ended up transporting the files to the PSR-SX600 by way of USB stick.  The process was easier than expected.

 

Great work with the Motif style collection!  At first I was confused because left hard chord shapes seemed to be only triggering bass lines, then I realized there was e-piano comping part whose level was set very low.  I also found that pressing the Multi-Pad buttons added rhythm guitar parts.  Just like in real life, the damn guitar is louder than the comping keyboard.  😜  😉  Seriously, though, great work.

 

I also enjoyed the DJXII collection.  Despite my PSR-SX600 being a 2020 model and purchased in new condition, the DJXII styles made my arranger sound gritty and vintage - which I dig.  It has at least one jungle/d'n'b style which is not represented at al in my SX600.

 

I didn't use the arranger features on my first arranger (Yamaha DGX series) at all.  Once in a while I would accidentally trigger the DGX's auto-accompaniment in band practice.  Yes, I got laughed at because of the Grandpa Joe sound.  I joined the band as a bass player.  Then when they learned I owned a keyboard, they asked me to start bringing it to band practice.  Sadly for all involved, the DGX was all I had at the time.  I picked up an Emu Command Station on blowout sale shortly after, so MIDI-ing the DGX to that resulted in more enjoyable sounds, but the DGX was still vulnerable to accidental auto-accompaniment because of its built-in speakers.

 

I thought Yamaha did a good job in updating the styles in the SX600.  It's got styles for "Lucky Star", "Ladies Night", "In Da Club", etc.  I've been digging more into the Brazilian stuff though.

 

The PSR-SX600 is only the 2nd arranger keyboard I've owned, and the first that I've actually used as an arranger. 

 

[AnotherScott]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:42 PM, EB5AGV said:

far from the $6000 you quote. I guess that is manufacturer list price.

$6k is U.S. street price (list is even higher), which makes it, I believe, at least in the U.S., the most expensive portable/gigging keyboard in production, except for the Moog One. 

 

Mills Dude makes good points about perceptions. Related to that is how the boards are marketed, and also some decisions the manufactures make about interface and documentation. I mentioned that I think the Korg PA1000 is a strong gigging board even if you completely ignore its arranger functions. But one obstacle is that so much in the manual and interface assumes you are using it as an arranger, so it can take a little more effort to figure out how to best use it when you don't intend to use songs and styles, etc., because you're kind of doing everything in a context that isn't consistent with the presentation. But it's not at all insurmountable. I've thought about doing a video about how to use a Korg PA just as "regular" live performance board. Though I'm not even sure that the way I do it is indeed the best way to do it. Anyway, it's on the list of a whole lot of things I've thought about doing videos about. ;-)

 

On 8/4/2022 at 5:08 PM, Biggles said:

There is a new kid in town that blows the Genos into the last century...Korg Pa5X.

 

Both seem like great boards. For gigging, personally, I'd go with the Genos simply because a bit under 29 lbs, whereas the 76-key Korg is almost 10 lbs heavier. I could gig with a 29 lb board, I would not consider gigging with a 38+ lb board. But... that's me.

 

I think the video below is an interesting comparison of the two, and much of it is done with no arranger functionality engaged (and you can just listen to the RH sound and ignore the arranger contributions where necessary), and--apart from whatever you may think about this sound or that--you can hear (at least to some extent) how both of these keyboards incorporate some behavioral characteristics of many of the emulated instruments, generally without having to do any kind of other-hand manipulations but rather simply based on how you play, which is a nice advantage over the typical keyboards that have buttons for alternate articulations (if they support them at all), which require additional skill to implement and, moreover, can't be used if your left hand is busy playing some other part. If you wanted this kind of feature in a non-arranger board, I think the only option is Roland with some of their SuperNATURAL Acoustic tones. (There are other boards that at least use velocity or legato-vs-detached playing for some different articulations, but SuperNATURAL and what the Korg and Yamaha arrangers do go beyond that. And the arrangers do also makes use of articulation buttons, but they can do some more tricks without your having to resort to them.)

 

As for the sounds themselves, in this video, sometimes I preferred the Korg, sometimes I preferred the Yamaha... though more often the latter, at least for the strings/horns/winds which is my main interest for a board like this. But I also don't know how much time and effort was put in to find sounds of similar character between the two boards, It's not inconceivable that, for some of the demonstrated instrument emulations when I liked the Yamaha better, there could have been some other Korg patch that I would have preferred over the one demonstrated... or vice versa. But just based on this demo, the Yamaha more often came closer to fooling me into thinking I could be listening to the actual acoustic instruments.

 

As for some other relevant non-arranger factors, the Korg has a tilt screen and, by the accounts I've seen so far, a nicer action... semi-weighted, compared to the unweighted Genos. (Genos action isn't bad, though... it's the FSX from the Montage/Motif.) Korg provides deeper sound editing.

 

I'd be curious to see how the operational interface compares... again, specifically from the perspective of non-arranger usages. One thing I like on the Genos is that the sliders have their own display that changes to let you know what the sliders are currently assigned to and their current values.

 

 

 

[AROIOS]

14 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

...

 

  This gentleman made both boards sound like lower-end DGX/YPG models. Martin Harris would be shaking his head.