Chord ID and naming

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hi. Some of you may recognize me as Caevan O'Shite, the actor portraying Kevin Miller in streaming analog quantum reality. I'm here to discuss and compare notes- literally-   let's kick the ball around here, I want your input- on identifying and naming chords and their functions in a given setting 'after the fact', after voicing, fingering and playing them out on guitar 'by ear' within a composition.

Chords like-

G#m add4 add9/A

That is, G sharp minor added 4th & added 9th with an A in the bass

(Or, well, that could also be considered an Abm add4 add9/A, G# and Ab being 'enharmonics', effectively the same note or pitch by different names. Just which one could ultimately depend on what key the given piece of music is decided to be.) 

My grip? No, not on reality, that's always been questionable and slipping; my grip, my voicing and fingering on the fretboard. My grip in question here is:

   X  0  6  6  0  6

Muted, Open, 6th-Fret, 6th-Fret, Open, 6th-Fret, low-to-high;

  A  G#  C#  B  A#,  respectively (aka  A  Ab  Db  B  Bb, enharmonically). In ascending order by string, but NOT necessarily so by pitch, due to the combination of fretted and open strings.

It's the first chord in an original piece I'm puzzling together. Very dissonant and odd, I know- but very deliberately so; it's exactly what I want it to be, in the context of the piece. All of the chord-fingerings include one or two open strings- predominantly the open 5th/A-String, and sometimes the open 2nd/B-String.

For now, I'm deciding that its Root is G#, and I'm calling it G#m add4 add9/A. For now.

And I think the piece is in the Key of B. I think.

Your thoughts? On what you have to go by so far? I'll post the rest of the chords and their fingerings later...
   
   
 

[Larryz]

I'll take a WAG (wild Ass Guess) LoL!

 

A flat, 9th, suspended 4th, flat 9th, with an A in the bass

 

Abm9, sus4, 9th or G#m9, sus4, 9th with an A in the bass

 

G sharp minor 9th, suspended 4th, 9th with an A in the bass

 

With an A and an A flat, and a B and a Bb in the same chord, it gets tricky trying to put a name on it. The Db/C# is where I get the Sus4 note.

 

You know how you want it played X06606, now you just need to assign a name to remember it by...Good luck and have fun with the new piece. 😎

[desertbluesman]

I know the names of major and minor chords and the 7th and 6th as I play them and a few diminished chords. For the rest, I play the chords and I have no idea what they are actually named other than to to know what key that I am playing in, and maybe the tonic of the chord (maybe) I can play many shapes and extensions by trial and error or watching others play them, and trying them. If I wanted to go pro I would have had to study all that as well as sight reading. I'se just a blues-man and blues based rocker, neither of which have the requirement to know names.

 

If I was playing in a band however I might have needed that skill, but my lazy ass did not want that extra work, so I learned how to make backing tracks myself and since I know about the diatonic and modal scales, I could use that skill to navigate the simple stuff that I write and record.

[Sharkman]

I went to chorderator.com, entered your chord, and it gave me this:  Possible chord names: Amaj9no5addA#, C#7add6no3/A, A#m7no5addB/A, G#mno5add4add2/A, B7sus2no5add7add6/A.  Pick one that you like.

[Caevan O’Shite]

3 hours ago, Larryz said:

I'll take a WAG (wild Ass Guess) LoL!

 

A flat, 9th, suspended 4th, flat 9th, with an A in the bass

 

Abm9, sus4, 9th or G#m9, sus4, 9th with an A in the bass

 

G sharp minor 9th, suspended 4th, 9th with an A in the bass

 

With an A and an A flat, and a B and a Bb in the same chord, it gets tricky trying to put a name on it. The Db/C# is where I get the Sus4 note.

 

You know how you want it played X06606, now you just need to assign a name to remember it by...Good luck and have fun with the new piece. 😎

One thing- and thank you for your reply!- since, in the G#/Ab contexts, the minor 3rd is present in the 'B' on the Open 2nd-String, as well as the 4th/C# on the 3rd-String/6th-Fret, that'd be an Added 4th, instead of the more usual Suspended 4th. Not to quibble, but it's there...

And since the 7th of G#/Ab is not present, the 9th would be an Added 9th (a full-on 9th chord requiring the Root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th, though maybe minus the 5th).

 

1 hour ago, Sharkman said:

I went to chorderator.com, entered your chord, and it gave me this:  Possible chord names: Amaj9no5addA#, C#7add6no3/A, A#m7no5addB/A, G#mno5add4add2/A, B7sus2no5add7add6/A.  Pick one that you like.

I had not yet even started to work it out in the context of any other possible candidates for the Root; thanks! In particular, the idea of it being a C#-Rooted chord is interesting... Later in the piece, the same grip with a B ('natural') on top (instead of that A#) on the 1st-String/7th-Fret, sounding a bit more 'correct' and less dissonant, leads me away from any A# Root context...

I'll have to work out what I think the actual Key of the whole piece is; I'll post the other chord voicings and their fingerings a little later.

Please note that I'm also working out exactly which fingers to use to fret each given note in each chord, to make each chord change and melodic embellishment as smooth and effortless as possible; I like to play the entire piece fingerstyle with a steady, uninterrupted rhythm pattern.
          
 
 

[KuruPrionz]

Maybe put it in European notation and ask our friends in the Keyboard Corner?

In general, us guitar slingers don't worry so much about the names of our creations. 

With a chord like this, there is a name for the chord based on every single note in the chord and the "least wrong" name may be linked to the rest of the composition. 

 

Guitar is a shapely instrument, this is a shape. I've got one written down in a similar way to what you did in the OP, a strange and interesting chord I sort of came across while free forming. Not sure what to do with it yet. 

 

And, Larryz, I think it's SWAG, Scientific Wild Ass Guess. 😇  The "Scientific" part makes it much more official-like... 

[Larryz]

Caevan,  +1 I think with a root 1 Ab/G#,  C would be the 3rd so B would be the flat 3rd making it a minor chord and I can see why you like G#minor.  I probably slipped a cog.  Bb would be the 9th, C#/Db would be the Sus4 (aka 11th). So you can say add 9 and add 4 (or add 11) if you like as there are missing intervals like the 5th and 7th.   An Ab sus4 contains Ab Db Eb Ab so your chord drew me in the sus4 direction.  The main sound I like is the high Bb that gives the chord a nice ring...so I guess I'll go with G# since your in the key of B.

G# minor, add 9, add 11 with an A in the bass  LoL! 😎👍

 

Kuru, I wish my WAG was more scientific, as my mind was elsewhere trying to fix a broken water line while trying to come up with a chord name.  That's my latest excuse LoL!

Chord names are just there to help use remember without having to know all the intervals.  We can always make up our own memory aids.  I use chord charts as pattern play, the same way I use patterns for scales.  And let the intervals fall into place where they may.  I get into a little theory now and then but mostly I just like to memorize chords and lyrics and do my own arrangements.  😎👍

[Caevan O’Shite]

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

5 minutes ago, Larryz said:

I probably slipped a cog.

No, not at all! We're just kickin' the ball around here, 's cool. 😎

 

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

Maybe put it in European notation and ask our friends in the Keyboard Corner?

Do you mean, more or less, 'Standard Notation', as in Notes on a Treble Clef Staff?

If so, do you have any suggestions on just how to go about creating such an image? (Not the 'music theory/how notes are written' aspect, the computer entering and posting and displaying ends of it.) I'd love to- I'm greener than a noob at some of this stuff on a computer and all!

 

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

In general, us guitar slingers don't worry so much about the names of our creations. 

With a chord like this, there is a name for the chord based on every single note in the chord and the "least wrong" name may be linked to the rest of the composition. 

 

Guitar is a shapely instrument, this is a shape. I've got one written down in a similar way to what you did in the OP...

Yeah, I figure out how to play what I hear in my head- either what comes to me all at once, or section by section, even chord by chord- first, and then, 'after the fact', I might figure out what the key and chords are.

Often enough the Root is one of the notes included in the chord that's played- but not always. Sometimes, a given chord is played 'Rootless', leaving the Root context to be provided- or even simply implied, if not played outright- by bass, or keyboards, or whatever.

There's usually at least one mechanical premise involved- such as, melodic and/or bass-line dictated voice-leading, using open strings, etc. For example, one of my other original pieces (not the one I've begun posting about on this thread) has a descending, somewhat 'walking' bass-line, while the highest note on top of each chord alternates regularly between only two specific notes, back and forth and back and forth every time for six bars, beginning again on the seventh bar, except for the bridge or chorus or whatever that segment is.
 

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

I've got one written down in a similar way to what you did in the OP, a strange and interesting chord I sort of came across while free forming. Not sure what to do with it yet.

 Please, tell us more- post more about that here!
     
         
 

[Larryz]

I have an Aminor thing for ending one of my tunes that goes:

 

x02200, x05500, 575555 😎

[KuruPrionz]

13 minutes ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

Do you mean, more or less, 'Standard Notation', as in Notes on a Treble Clef Staff?

If so, do you have any suggestions on just how to go about creating such an image? (Not the 'music theory/how notes are written' aspect, the computer entering and posting and displaying ends of it.) I'd love to- I'm greener than a noob at some of this stuff on a computer and all!

 

Yeah, I figure out how to play what I hear in my head- either what comes to me all at once, or section by section, even chord by chord- first, and then, 'after the fact', I might figure out what the key and chords are.

Often enough the Root is one of the notes included in the chord that's played- but not always. Sometimes, a given chord is played 'Rootless', leaving the Root context to be provided- or even simply implied, if not played outright- by bass, or keyboards, or whatever.

There's usually at least one mechanical premise involved- such as, melodic and/or bass-line dictated voice-leading, using open strings, etc. For example, one of my other original pieces (not the one I've begun posting about on this thread) has a descending, somewhat 'walking' bass-line, while the highest note on top of each chord alternates regularly between only two specific notes, back and forth and back and forth every time for six bars, beginning again on the seventh bar, except for the bridge or chorus or whatever that segment is.
 

 Please, tell us more- post more about that here!
     
         
 

European notation is only "Standard" if you are playing in the tempered scale, an abomination brought to life by reverse engineering the "Circle of Fifths", done by Bach and his filthy cohorts so they could play slightly out of tune in every key. Even with that "innovation" for keyboards, Europeans still had to concede that it was OK for fretless instruments like the violin family to be allowed to play in the "Just" scale, which is where musicians with accurate pitch and some sensitivity play all the correct notes in every key, including fifths that are identical with the natural fifth that occurs when you play a harmonic at the seventh fret on a guitar - that note is not the same note as the fretted note unless the "intonation" of the guitar is "incorrect".  😃

 

Can of worms? Hmmm... what can? what worms...? 

What's that, you want to play music from Turkey or India? Sorry, there are only 12 evenly spaced notes in an octave, you'll just have to stop using these "imperfect" ideas!!!!

Our own beloved Blues tradition is based on music brought to Africa from the Middle East, where there are more notes in the octave and the fifth is the natural fifth that all strings, flutes and (properly abused) reeds will generate. There are influences from Native American music and of course from the European folk music that was brought across the oceans. Charley Patton, Robert Johnson, Son House, Muddy Waters, Jimi Hendrix and countless others all play notes that would be considered "wrong" in European notation but are simply part of a musical language that did not require mathematical manipulation to be "correct". 

 

Slide guitar came from a variety of inconveniences like: Guitars with high action - guitars with heavy strings - guitars with incorrect intonation - AND - the fundamental need to play the correct notes for the style of music that can be provided by having one "moveable fret" on your finger. 

Listen carefully to some bottleneck blues like Son House. Listen to Billie Holiday go "flat" as a grace decoration at the end of a song (she does this exactly the same way on many, many songs). THAT is the sound of American Music. 

 

Of course, the other fundamental problem with adhering to European notation as a guitarist is that there are 5 locations for Middle C on a Stratocaster and only ONE position for Middle C on a keyboard. 

It is a demonic device created by evil people. 😇

 

As to my chord, it may be a while before I can find that piece of paper. My condo was gutted by water damage caused by damage to the fire sprinkler system on the third floor leaking all the way down to the first floor. To dry it out and prevent "organic growth" (the nicey-nice word for "Black Mold"), walls, floors and all the kitchen cabinetry had to be removed and drying fans were run for 5 days straight. We've temporarily lost all of our contractors to the flooding in Sumas and Everson - this was ignorant people purchasing homes that are visibly below the historic water line of the Nooksack River. It may not flood every year but when it does, it does. This year, it did. 

 

So I'm staying at another otherwise vacant home that a friend owns but my stuff is all jammed into 2 bedrooms at home and the bathroom has the oven and refrigerator in it plus the water is turned off. 

 

If/when I find it I'll post about it. I am super lucky to be living comfortably in a lovely home with a view of the Salish Sea and the islands but I am looking forward to returning home and putting things back in order!!!!!

[Sharkman]

10 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Maybe put it in European notation and ask our friends in the Keyboard Corner?

In general, us guitar slingers don't worry so much about the names of our creations. 

With a chord like this, there is a name for the chord based on every single note in the chord and the "least wrong" name may be linked to the rest of the composition. 

 

Guitar is a shapely instrument, this is a shape. I've got one written down in a similar way to what you did in the OP, a strange and interesting chord I sort of came across while free forming. Not sure what to do with it yet. 

 

And, Larryz, I think it's SWAG, Scientific Wild Ass Guess. 😇  The "Scientific" part makes it much more official-like... 

I learned back in 1986 that SWAG meant Sophisticated Wild Ass Guess.  I'm guessing that in this new covid era, things are becoming less sophisticated and more scientific.

[KuruPrionz]

7 minutes ago, Sharkman said:

I learned back in 1986 that SWAG meant Sophisticated Wild Ass Guess.  I'm guessing that in this new covid era, things are becoming less sophisticated and more scientific.

Sophisticated works for me. 

A friend of mine taught me SWAG in the mid 1990's in California although he was from Seattle. 

So it's pre-Covid. Probably just the typical regional colloquialism at play. 

 

For me, the "S" word at the beginning makes it funnier! 😁