Yamaha PSR - a pair of new ones

[ElmerJFudd]

I don't usually pay attention to this line.  But I saw that they updated two models.

E473

EW425

These are $300-$500 instruments.   I saw PSR's in keyboard class in school in the 90s/2000s.  Not particularly great actions, but velocity sensitive.   And they could do beats and had lots of little PCM samples - nothing to write home about.  They also had MIDI din so you could use with the computers if you had an interface. 

However, did you know that there is a PSRSX900 that retails at $2299.99. Holy frijoles!

This is halfway to a Genos.   

A far cry from the PSRs of the 90s/2000s. 

 

 

 

[Justin Havu]

I have a PSR-530 (released in 1997) that I bought used a few years ago for around $100.  I have it set up in our church's cafe for when we have our mid-week services.  Great onboard sounds, with the exception of the acoustic pianos, and a pretty powerful speaker system which more than suffices for this application.

[JohnH]

delete.

[GovernorSilver]

These caught my attention too.

 

After the Casio CT-S1000V was announced I started looking at what the competition has to offer in this price range for keyboard arrangers.  I await Jeremy See's review(s) on his Youtube channel.

 

While I've been taking a steady diet of piano vitamins of late - the Jazz Chords for Beginners and Bebop Enclosures for Beginners courses on Open Studio - I am interested in adding a keyboard arranger to my toolbox.

[pjd]

The new models are significantly improved over the previous E-series generation(s). Yamaha have given the voices serious attention, especially the 76-key PSR-EW425. Both models have several new drawbar organ voices, for example. Along with a better grand piano, the EW425 drawbar organ voices have leakage and key noise. Both models add Super Articulation Lite voices where the articulation is triggered by a front-panel button. 

 

Best yet, both models incorporate many of the same DSP effect algorithms as the arranger and synth product lines. This is a major upgrade.

 

The E473 and EW425 are starting to breath down the MX61's neck. The MX61 is still based on Motif XS (2007) waveforms and voices and streets for $770USD. The new E-series models should both hit the street for less than that. The MX has a few extra tricks, but that $770 street price is ridiculous when development cost has been long since paid. (Sorry to my friends at Yamaha for saying this.)

 

Definitely worth a look in that price category -- pj

 

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/

 

[GovernorSilver]

I'm still thinking about picking up an arranger keyboard.  Nice article, pj!

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-psr-e473-and-psr-ew425/

 

Interesting that the EW425 has extra organ samples from the YC-series.  

 

Neither these Yamaha arrangers, nor the competing Casio CT-S500/CT-S1000V appear to allow onboard editing of auto-accompaniment styles/rhythms.   I do see however on p. 59 of the manual that "Style files (.sty) created externally can be imported into Styles 291 to 300 and used in the same way as built-in Styles."  

 

This PSR and Tyros FAQ site appears to answer the question I had about creating/editing styles.

[GovernorSilver]

Gearfacts on similarities and differences between the CT-S1000V and PSR-EW425

 

- CT has a vocal synth, PSR has mic input

- CT has chromatic sampling, PSR sampling is one-shot

- Keybeds are different

- Both have excellent DSP effects

- CT has a modulation wheel, PSR has the Motion Effect button

- PSR speakers are louder

- Sadly, no comparison of the most interesting - to me - aspect of arrangers - the auto-accompaniments

 

 

[lsj]

I just had to put in my two cents.  I have plenty of digital and analog synths.  years ago I bought a Yamaha psr-s950.  I made some great clavs, strings, e-pianos, horn sections(really nice horns), percussion and drums are up to par with others, and the very best tenor sax on the market.  not even the kronos, any roland could even come near the tenor sax.  I have played a gig years ago and several musicians were looking and finally asked me where the sax was.  I know sound is an opinion but someone compare the tenor sax anywhere to the upper Yamaha psr series or the tyros or genos 

[GovernorSilver]

GearFacts demoing synth sounds he made on the PSR-EW425.  He confirmed that the sounds were all achieved by just tweaking EQ and DSP (effects) settings.  

 

It's not meant to compete with a MODX, Hydrasynth or anything like that, as there do not appear to be LFO rate and depth parameters, envelope parameters, etc. but there is control over filter cutoff and resonance - just enough to make sounds that fit with the intended usage of Groove Creator.

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

I think I might aim a little higher in this keyboard category.  Further perusal of manual PDFs, Jeremy See videos, etc.  shows the PSR-SX600 might be a better fit for my interests.  It costs more than the E473 or EW425, but less than the SX900 and even the SX700.   Of course there are some things an SX-600 buyer would give up compared to the pricier models, like keybed quality, internal memory, the higher-end grand piano voice, mic input that can also take in guitar, etc.  OTOH, it has some stuff that the others don't have either, as discussed in the below video.

 

The features I'm willing to pay for, over the cost of the E473 or EW425:

• Can load Voice&Style expansion packs.
• 3 Intros, 4 Variations, 4 Fills, Break, 3 Endings
• Style Creator
• Half-bar Fills
• Style Section Reset button
• Style Unison (eg. the horn section unison riff in "Sir Duke"), assignable to pedal
• Style Accent - velocity values from left-hand input can affect Style performance by  adding/removing notes 
• Multi Pads - can trigger audio files as well as MIDI clips
• 73 Super Articulation Voices (vs. 14 Super Articulation Lite voices)

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

Dunno who is still considering the PSR-E473.   There is apparently an LCD screen issue with it

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Yamaha is not messing around in this region lately.  Much better sounding pcm pianos.  Build is basically the same (which is expected from Yamaha, they do last better than most others), amp and speakers maybe slightly better than they used to sell on PSR. But not a dramatic difference.  I assume response to competition.  

[GovernorSilver]

Jeremy See was actually very enthusiastic about both Yamaha models referenced in this thread's topic, before release.  His initial reviews of these two were also positive.  Yes, he mentioned the quality of sampled instruments.

 

So it was a surprise to see him release a video about the E473's defect, which I understand is not related at all to quality of samples.

 

For those who didn't watch Jeremy See's video in its entirety, I should note that he also reports that the EW-425 does not have the LCD screen problem or any other issue.

[ElmerJFudd]

42 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

For those who didn't watch Jeremy See's video in its entirety, I should note that he also reports that the EW-425 does not have the LCD screen problem or any other issue.

What’s your guess?  Yamaha considers the faint lcd within their acceptability or perhaps they can’t get parts for a recall - so they’ll do it only on a case by case basis for people who want it fixed or offer refund for those that want to return it… but they are banking on the notion perhaps that most people will live with it.  

[GovernorSilver]

26 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

What’s your guess?  Yamaha considers the faint lcd within their acceptability or perhaps they can’t get parts for a recall - so they’ll do it only on a case by case basis for people who want it fixed or offer refund for those that want to return it… but they are banking on the notion perhaps that most people will live with it.  

Probably a supply-chain shortage affecting availability of parts for an LCD recall.  

 

Yamaha is a big enough company to get away with simply being silent/unresponsive and letting the retailers take the heat from customers over defective Yamaha product. 

 

Retailers may in turn put up with heat from some customers if other Yamaha products they carry continue to sell, unless the majority of Yamaha inventory was also affected by the same LCD defect.

 

I've no idea about what happens if a relationship between manufacturer and store gets so bad that the store stops selling that manufacturer's product.

 

Well, you did ask for my guess.  

[ElmerJFudd]

Ya. I agree. I think they aren’t even certain how many units have the faulty screen and likely can’t get enough screens to do a full recall.  So on sub $500 keyboard they’ll take it case by case, replacing X number of screens (although it sounds like they’ve got bad ones in their parts supply chain as well) and refund the people they can’t please.  Many will live with the flaw.  
 

Bigger picture.  Who knows how long supply chain issues are going to drag on. More than the usual instability is rocking the Earth’s boat these days. 

[GovernorSilver]

This kind of parallels what is happening with the Korg Opsix.

 

There is a US-based Korg warehouse that had a massive clearance sale, in partnership with Sweetwater and Reverb.  $329 for a new Opsix.

 

This sounded too good to be true... and for some people it was.... several customers later reported problems with the Opsix display and other issues.  People are thinking it's damage from sitting too long inside a hot warehouse and/or damage from delivery during the record-setting heat wave. Korg so far has been - reportedly - silent on this situation.   One unknown is how many units were actually defective, out of the entire batch at the warehouse.  

 

I suspect Korg's approach will be similar to your idea of how Yamaha will handle the E473 LCD problem.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

29 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

This kind of parallels what is happening with the Korg Opsix.

 

There is a US-based Korg warehouse that had a massive clearance sale, in partnership with Sweetwater and Reverb.  $329 for a new Opsix.

 

This sounded too good to be true... and for some people it was.... several customers later reported problems with the Opsix display and other issues.  People are thinking it's damage from sitting too long inside a hot warehouse and/or damage from delivery during the record-setting heat wave. Korg so far has been - reportedly - silent on this situation.   One unknown is how many units were actually defective, out of the entire batch at the warehouse.  

 

I suspect Korg's approach will be similar to your idea of how Yamaha will handle the E473 LCD problem.

 

 

Similar to how Apple handled their G5 iMacs. That processor ran way to hot for the airflow in the tight “behind the screen” case.  They refused to recall it, so they just kept replacing mother boards at no charge every time an owner brought one in.  No questions asked.  No admission of flaw.  They’ll do the same with customers complaining of a high pitch whine from the Ultra Studio.  How many of them exhibit the sound and how many don’t… how many people does the sound bother?  They’ll fix, replace or refund on a case by case basis. 

[GovernorSilver]

Jeremy See will most certainly post a video update on how Yamaha is handling his case.

 

It'll be an interesting drama to follow.