The Spotify Wars: Tied Neil Young 1, Joe Rogan 1 at Half-Time

[Anderton]

So...Neil Young said he'd remove his music from Spotify if they didn't boot Joe Rogan for covid misinformation. Well, Rogan was supposedly paid $100,000,000 by Spotify for a multi-year contract, so you can imagine how that turned out.

 

It's kind of sad, though, for Neil Young to think he can dictate terms in this new world. The generation of rock musicians that once held power over public opinion really don't hold any power anymore. However, if Neil Young had uncorked a barn-burner of a song called "Screw Joe Rogan," that might have had a lot more impact.

 

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with music not being a political vehicle. It was at one point, it's not at the moment, it may be again, or it may not. 

 

As Andy Warhol once said, the most important thing he ever learned were the words "so what?"

 

 

[pinkfloydcramer]

Strikes me as more of a principled stand, more than something he was expecting to win. But 50 years from now people will remember Neil Young, and Rogan (who I like also) will be one of those "Joe WHO?"s. And Spotify will be in the trash heap with MySpace.  

[Anderton]

37 minutes ago, pinkfloydcramer said:

Strikes me as more of a principled stand, more than something he was expecting to win. But 50 years from now people will remember Neil Young, and Rogan (who I like also) will be one of those "Joe WHO?"s. And Spotify will be in the trash heap with MySpace.  

 

If you make that a bet, probably no one will bet against what you said

[Joe Muscara]

I'll stay away from my opinion about Joe Rogan, but ⛽ Spotify for valuing a podcaster that much while they continue to think they're providing musicians/artists with "exposure" and paying among the lowest rates in the industry. In that sense, it probably wasn't a hard call for Neil because it wasn't like he's going to miss that check for a dollar three eighty from Spotify anyway.

 

 

 

 

[edited because I thought my profanity would get bleeped, so I emojied it instead]

[Anderton]

Same as it ever was...

 

Drake is Spotify’s highest earner, with an estimated haul of $52,546,150.

 

The top-grossing song on Spotify is Shape of You, which earned Ed Sheeran $6,566,000.

 

Spotify’s 10 highest-earners have made a combined $337,485,480 from the platform.

 

The highest-earning song from before 2010 is Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody, which has made $3,349,150 on Spotify.

[KuruPrionz]

I have managed to completely ignore Spotify up to this point. I might as well continue as I am, perfectly happy. 

[dmitch57]

I don't think Young lost at all. His record company backed his move and there is a ton of favorable press shining light on his principled stand. He and his record company walked the walk, and everybody in the industry knows it. Good for them. 

[spokenward]

Context matters on this. Neil Young had polio. Fortunately, that context is out of the current awareness of many who are skeptical of vaccines.

 

Personally I have a clear childhood recollection of mass Sabin clinics and older siblings of classmates who had aluminum braces and crutches. 

[Anderton]

38 minutes ago, spokenward said:

Context matters on this. Neil Young had polio.

I hadn't thought about that incredibly important point, but more tellingly, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else.

 

Still, I think it's sad for Neil Young to believe he can make a difference (although he'll benefit from being able to sleep well at night). He's fighting money, and these days, money always wins eventually. What's needed more than the people in this forum giving him moral support is for Drake, Ed Sheeran, and Taylor Swift to remove their music as well. I think if that happened, others would follow, and Joe Rogan would be history on Spotify - and the people who would normally scream "censorship" couldn't, because they're often the same people who say "let the market decide."

[KuruPrionz]

33 minutes ago, Anderton said:

I hadn't thought about that incredibly important point, but more tellingly, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else.

 

Still, I think it's sad for Neil Young to believe he can make a difference (although he'll benefit from being able to sleep well at night). He's fighting money, and these days, money always wins eventually. What's needed more than the people in this forum giving him moral support is for Drake, Ed Sheeran, and Taylor Swift to remove their music as well. I think if that happened, others would follow, and Joe Rogan would be history on Spotify - and the people who would normally scream "censorship" couldn't, because they're often the same people who say "let the market decide."

All true!

Remember when Taylor Swift stood up to Apple Music and told them they could not have her music unless they paid all the indie artists for the first 90 day period, which Apple wanted to be free. Apple relented, they needed Taylor's catalog to bring in the $$$.

She wrote a great post on Twitter or something, giving Apple the what-for.

I've been a fan ever since that day, Taylor has a great heart and soul to do that for all the "little people" that she didn't even know. 

https://www.savingcountrymusic.com/taylor-swift-stands-up-to-apples-streaming-service-in-open-letter/

[Anderton]

Being in Nashville, we hear about all the things Taylor Swift does for people that don't make the national press. She kept a record store alive, gave a lot to tornado relief, and has even helped out people who were having tough times. People can complain about her all they want, but she's smart, talented, and has a soul. 

[Dave Bryce]

I also don't use Spotify. 

 

I did, however, buy a new copy of Neil Young's Decade album.  Vinyl, of course.

 

dB

[Rod S]

One anti-science (mis) communicator arguing with another anti-science (mis)communicator.  Wish both would stay quiet 

[David Emm]

I once enjoyed the song Rogan was singing, but he kept dragging the needle across the record and drove me away. Rousing the rabble is clearly more profitable than ever, but I guess I'm not a rabbler. I convulsively flipped from cable news to "Resident Alien" in self-defense. Am I better off? TBD. 🙈

 

Peoples' views at an acoustic guitar level: intriguing, sometimes informative & often funny.

Peoples' views at the decibel level of a jet engine, 24/7: (Picture of me running away, fingers in my ears up to the wrist.)

The noise-to-signal ratio has gone too ballistic and it makes my teeth itch.

 

Therefore, guess who sets the news aside and plays more of Spitfire's well-crafted cimbalom? Pushing that beautiful thing through a hefty reverb makes you feel like The Phantom of the Gypsies. Civic responsibility be damned, I'm busy making alleged Art.

[Greg Mein]

I'd never listened to Joe Rogan but now I feel like I should, some will understand what I mean.

[PrairieGuy]

7 hours ago, Rod S said:

One anti-science (mis) communicator arguing with another anti-science (mis)communicator.  Wish both would stay quiet 

Neil Young probably knows about as much (or as little) about vaccines as Eric Clapton (recently roasted here). I wouldn't take medical advice from either one of them.

[Joe Muscara]

Is Neil Young giving medical advice? I hadn’t heard that. I’ve only heard that he was disputing someone sharing misinformation about science. 

[Anderton]

49 minutes ago, PrairieGuy said:

Neil Young probably knows about as much (or as little) about vaccines as Eric Clapton (recently roasted here). I wouldn't take medical advice from either one of them.

 

There is no requirement for medical knowledge. Basic math is sufficient:

 

unvaccinated (deaths + hospitalizations) > vaccinated (deaths + hospitalizations)

 

I don't know any entity that can produce stats disputing that.

[Rod S]

9 hours ago, PrairieGuy said:

Neil Young probably knows about as much (or as little) about vaccines as Eric Clapton (recently roasted here). I wouldn't take medical advice from either one of them.

 

Agree, but I said anti science as a broader term intentionally.    Neil was pretty vocal on his scientifically inaccurate and misguided anti-GMO stance, which is an area I have knowledge about. 

 

 

[Anderton]

Young has been involved in a number of causes over the years, and this isn't his first dig at the music industry (he did a song in the 80s called "This Note's for You," decrying commercial sponsorship of tours and such). Then there was his Pono thingie, which he introduced because he thought MP3s sounded like crap. It was a commercial failure, but to be fair, its central premise of downloadable high-res music has now become the norm. So you could argue it was just ahead of its time, especially since Apple ended up buying Pono's content partner.

 

Frankly, I've never heard a Joe Rogan podcast, and I don't have any Neil Young albums. I really don't pay much attention to the political views of entertainers (I would put both under that classification). The bottom line is that under our current system, Young has the right to try and convince Spotify not to give a platform to someone of sketchy credibility, Joe Rogan has a right to say stuff that's not true so he can get clicks and make money, Spotify will retain whoever makes more money for the company, and musicians and consumers have the right to boycott Spotify if they don't like how the company conducts its business. It's all pretty straightforward.

[Anderton]

Here's a link to an interesting article with a lot of backstory that hasn't been covered in other articles.

[KuruPrionz]

I didn't think this was too political but if it is, please delete it. A summation of the current trends following Neil's ultimatum and Spotify's decision. 

I thought it was interesting and will be watching.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/spotify-backlash-continues-after-neil-youngs-boycott-222712505.html

[Anderton]

44 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I didn't think this was too political but if it is, please delete it.

 

I only have a problem with material that's 100% political or pushes particular political causes/beliefs/misinformation. The intersection of music and politics is fair game.

[Anderton]

And now, Joni Mitchell has pulled her music from Spotify. Bear in mind that in almost all cases, the artist can't pull the music. It has to be the record company that licenses the music. So, the artist has to go through the label. 

 

Just to make matters more interesting, SiriusXM is now relaunching Neil Young Radio. But here's an interesting tidbit from that article (emphasis mine):

 

SiriusXM hosts multiple conservative radio shows that espouse views similar to or more outspoken than Rogan’s — particularly on SiriusXM Patriot channel, which features Sean Hannity, Breitbart News, Andrew Wilkow and others — however, satellite radio is covered by different broadcast licenses than streaming services and a rights-holder would not be able to prevent its music from being broadcast. Streaming services host content at the discretion of the rights holder; since Warner Music holds the rights to Young’s music, he had to request the company remove his catalog from Spotify.

[KuruPrionz]

17 minutes ago, Anderton said:

And now, Joni Mitchell has pulled her music from Spotify. Bear in mind that in almost all cases, the artist can't pull the music. It has to be the record company that licenses the music. So, the artist has to go through the label. 

It will be interesting to see how this develops over time. 

There aren't many successful artists who have total control over their own music so these sorts of requests may or may not be honored but will take time in any case. 

[Anderton]

Meanwhile, Kid Rock won't play any place with a vaccine mandate, so the ongoing bifurcation continues. But, at least you know where he stands, so potential concert-goers can do a risk/reward calculation for going to a Kid Rock concert. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Joni Mitchell doesn’t like how Joe Rogan earns a buck either.  She’s following Neil’s lead.  
 

I don’t know what to say. I’m not a fan of conspiracy theorists either.  But one has to wonder with artists… which have convictions and which are playing the news cycle game?  Taking a position rather than promoting common ground gains them points with their fans and generates interest in their catalog or upcoming shows.  Any news is good news, right?  Cynical maybe.  But who knows.  I think Rogan knows exactly what he’s doing too.  Once there’s $ involved he knows what keeps the fans tuning in.  Entertainment is a dirty manipulative business.  

[Joe Muscara]

I would like to think that Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are at points in their careers where a) they can make this sacrifice without hurting their wallets too much, and 2) they care more about the issue than the self-promotion. Both came up when causes were part of the music and they participated in that, so i would guess that's in their blood at this point.

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, Joe Muscara said:

I would like to think that Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are at points in their careers where a) they can make this sacrifice without hurting their wallets too much, and 2) they care more about the issue than the self-promotion. Both came up when causes were part of the music and they participated in that, so i would guess that's in their blood at this point.

 

Agreed, this isn't a new thing for either one of them, especially Neil Young. They're creatures of the 60s, where entertainers were more likely to take political stands. The risks of doing so were less back then. The audience was more of the mentality "well, I sure don't agree with what he says, but damn, that's a good guitar solo" rather than "we must purge the traitor from society."

 

Artists have more to lose these days by taking a stand, because they might lose fans they've developed over the years when their politics were unambiguous. OTOH people like Joe Rogan came on the scene with their politics fully formed and not ambiguous, so fans knew exactly what they were getting into.

[Greg Mein]

Now that Spotify is thrust into the spotlight it would be interesting to know more about it. Is there anyone here that has/had an account? Is it just something you download to your phone?