Sorta OT: Why Did/Do Guitarists Reject Synthesizers?

[Tusker]

+1 Joe too, played other instruments. (Clarinet, violin) Good music is good music, right?

[GovernorSilver]

Indeed!

 

Also there's Ralph Towner and Egberto Gismonti, though I'm more familiar with Towner's work, particularly with Oregon. The one time I saw Oregon live, Towner put his guitar skills on display as expected, but he also wasn't shy about working the heck out of the pitch bender, modulation controls, etc. of the synth that he had on top of the piano.

[KuruPrionz]

Guitars ARE wonderfully responsive and so are keyboards. As Craig said, a lot of expression is about available technique, but tools need respect too. While I learned a lot from this thread, I was sad to see ignorant stereotypes being propagated: stereotypes about both guitars and keyboards. Not trying to be a dick, but it's important to not denigrate what we don't understand. We are all musicians. The search for expression is our shared journey. If somebody doesn't get an instrument, that's all it means. They just don't get it.

 

All instruments are real. There are no fake instruments. Technology is improving at increasing speeds. Digital response is often faster than the speed of human circuits. Digital sensors will outstrip purely mechanical ones before long. Why? They are cheap, accurate and anywhere there is a meaningful human gesture, you can place a sensor there. They can measure signals (e.g. light and magnetic fields) in a way that purely physical sensors couldn't so there is more potential bandwidth to exploit. A challenge will be how to to build a culture of conservatory-level technique while the tools are changing? Joe and Lyle are heroes who used the limited tools they had. At their time, aftertouch was rare and the beautiful Obie Four Voice's oscillator tracking was sometimes weak. I agree that Joe and Lyle would have loved to see Osmose or Touche! They could have shed tears over Zebra or Reaktor or Omnisphere. Or Prophet-X. Or Moog One. Or Kemper Profiler.

 

This is a multi-layered topic beyond any doubt. Instruments are one thing, traditions are another. Traditions are traditions because they have become strictly adhered to over time, otherwise we call them "fads", "phases" etc.

Historically speaking, human nature has been slow to change traditions when compared to the speed of changing technology.

 

This is certainly true in the Arts and Music is an Art. The European tradition of the Tempered Scale Keyboard and the education system that shares that tradition, is not that old in terms of civilization or the history of music. Distilled to its essence, the tempered scale was a deliberate choice to ignore the natural 5th that is created by blowing a harmonic on a flute or touching a string at the correct position and plucking the 5th harmonic. That natural harmonic exists in nature as well and it is normal for humans to hear it and be drawn to the sonorous tones of the tonic and the natural fifth.

 

Unfortunately, the math of the natural fifth harmonic does not allow a circle of fifths to resolve at the beginning point. Essentially, the designers of the tempered fifth were willing to compromise what is inherent in all of us to enable the keyboardists of that time to play slightly out of tune in all keys. Their one concession was to allow the Just Scale for strings since those are fretless and can play more or less any scale "correctly" in any key.

 

Over time, many have learned to hear music as being the Tempered Scale only and the European tradition continues to be taught to this day.

 

Historically speaking, European culture created superior weapons and transportation systems (swords, catapults, guns, ships etc.) and through the use of these "tools", dominated the world through genocide and suppression.

The dominance of European music traditions (the tempered scale) changed the way music sounded, forever.

 

That said, there are music traditions in India, the Middle East, Africa and the Americas that are much older than this European tradition and that do not use the tempered scale because they do not naturally hear things that way.

The oud and sarod are both fretless to allow full expression of the tones, both Middle Eastern and Indian music have more than 12 tones in the octave. The sitar was designed with tied-on frets that can be moved for the same reason, they can adjust the scale to suit the raga they are going to play. We see it in the Blues style of playing a guitar with a bottle neck, melodic flourishes are no longer constrained by the fretwork, which was laid out in an attempt to make the guitar subservient to the tempered scale (I am grateful that it didn't work!!! ).

 

There are MANY examples in modern Jazz, the Trombone, the Saxophone, the Trumpet, all are able to freely play any frequencies within their range. Blues and Jazz both have deep roots in non-European traditions and both are essential components of the lexicon of American Music. If you listen to early recordings of Jazz and Blues, you will hear what is now called "Blue notes", these are correct notes for the style but do not fit in the tempered scale.

Billie Holiday is not singing flat at the end of her songs, she is using an inflection that she learned from her ancestors that is an essential component to her expression, and she does it the same way time and again.

There are LOTS of examples, Muddy Waters is another gold mine of "Blue notes".

 

Point being, while technology now allows keyboard players to play anything within the range of their instrument (admittedly a HUGE range!), tradition has made the evolutionary process of going beyond the tempered scale a slower, more difficult path for players of that instrument. In my observation, this is due primarily to the current education system for keyboard players. There is so much more that can be done if the constraints can be acknowledged and loosened. There was a recent thread on here touting how much the keyboard player's solo sounded like an electric guitar - except, it didn't really sound like a guitar at all. It sounded like a keyboard player trying to sound like a guitar, the note choices gave it away.

 

I am not ignorant of the amazing things being played in our times, I am ecstatic to hear the progress. I also think it is important to take an objective, historical viewpoint of what is going on around us and to learn from other traditions.

If we all listen more and judge less there is much to be learned. Music is an infinite pathway, a lifetime of full devotion to music will engender progress but we find ourselves standing on a nice little hill, looking upward to the peaks. From those peaks, there are loftier peaks in the distance, I can't see those from my little hill yet. Just my 2 cents, make of it what you will. Cheers, Kuru

[Al Coda]

* Most synthesizers aren't set up for guitar, aside from the early Yamaha FM ones (TX81Z, TX802).

 

Oberheim Matrix-1000 came w/ a "guitar mode" out of the box,- "whammy bar"-MIDI functionality included.

Hiram Bullock used it ...

 

Oberheim Xpander (and Matrix-12 as well),- in "Multipatch" mode,- were able to respond to by a MIDI-guitar generated MIDI data (each string on it´s dedicated MIDI channel) ...

Alan Holdsworth used the Xpander together w/ his SynthAxe.

 

* It's more difficult to create your own presets for guitar than it is to create your own presets for keyboards.

 

Why ? I doubt !

In fact, you need the same monophonic patch on each of out of six MIDI channels (which was easy to achieve w/ the Oberheims).

 

* MIDI 1.0 can't reproduce many guitar nuances - palm muting, pinch harmonics, harmonics, most slides, etc.

 

Using a MIDI-guitar-controller is playing synthesizer being controlled by a guitar type interface.

It´s not playing guitar.

IMO, it all depends on what the controller can do or not.

 

It´s not different compared to keyboard (controlled) synths.

Any piano player can complain about the synth action not being able to reproduce all the nuances like the weighted action of a grand piano or electric piano can do.

Also think about all these thousands of non-velocity sensitive patches being created on ancient non-velocity sensitive keyboard controlled synths and which impact these had on the evolution of jazz and rock music.

IMO, such limitations force the player to develop new playing techniques which then create different expressivity.

I´d say, any electronics require that experimentation,- and then some lose while other´s win.

 

MIDI 2.0 will likely change that (and simpilify setup) but for now, guitar synths are an expressiveness downgrade.

 

I guess, guitarists deciding for using a MIDI guitar/ synth combo don´t think about that "downgrade".

It´s more like additional functionality,- soundwise.

 

Jennifer Batten used the MIDI-guitar synth when touring w/ Michael Jackson as also 1999 on Jeff Beck´s world tour.

That tour originally started w/ Tony Hymas on keys and Jennifer Batten as 2nd guitar player.

Hymas leaved the tour early,- already on a Hamburg/germany gig he didn´t enter the stage and Batten managed keyboard sounds all alone while drummer Steve Alexander provided all the sequences (Star Cycle etc.) w/ AKAI MPC.

 

Batten did it really good and there wasn´t any lack of expressivity at all.

 

..., and then have all the other benefits of playing a synth.

 

Different point of view perhaps ...

The standard keyboard, in opposite to a guitar neck w/ multiple strings, is a very limited linear controller.

That´s why we see many boutique projects trying to achieve better control,- there was Roli and there is Osmose being available "soon".

 

I´d wish I could play guitar well and had a high quality MIDI guitar controller available sometimes.

 

 

 

 

A.C.

[GovernorSilver]

Point being, while technology now allows keyboard players to play anything within the range of their instrument (admittedly a HUGE range!), tradition has made the evolutionary process of going beyond the tempered scale

 

You're saying not a single keyboard player in the history of keyboards, ever went beyond the (12-tone equal) tempered scale? Au contraire....

 

Check out Persian piano music - some notes of the piano retuned to quarter tones

[video:youtube]

 

Microtuning on the humble Microfreak synth

[video:youtube]

 

How to make Microtonal Lofi music - so called "Lofi" is popular with kids these days

[video:youtube]

 

Also, a fair number of modern, popular brand hardware synths have built-in microtonal scales. Those scales would not be there if there was no demand for them - that means somebody who plays keyboards uses those scales.

[KuruPrionz]

Point being, while technology now allows keyboard players to play anything within the range of their instrument (admittedly a HUGE range!), tradition has made the evolutionary process of going beyond the tempered scale

 

You're saying not a single keyboard player in the history of keyboards, ever went beyond the (12-tone equal) tempered scale? Au contraire....

 

Check out Persian piano music - some notes of the piano retuned to quarter tones

[video:youtube]

 

Microtuning on the humble Microfreak synth

[video:youtube]

 

How to make Microtonal Lofi music - so called "Lofi" is popular with kids these days

[video:youtube]

 

Also, a fair number of modern, popular brand hardware synths have built-in microtonal scales. Those scales would not be there if there was no demand for them - that means somebody who plays keyboards uses those scales.

 

I am aware of this welcome change. In the history of keyboards it is a relatively recent development. MANY keyboards have had pitch wheels for decades as well.

What I am saying is that our music education system is Euro-Centric for the most part and the notation used does not provide a simple, accurate way to document these important changes.

 

My friend's children are taught the 12 note tempered scale and how to read from those charts. Many of them become curious about the other possibilities, which is awesome.

 

In perspective, there are far more students learning to read European tempered music on keyboards than there are guitarists. There are reasons for that, guitar has more than one position per note and adding that information is critical to a correct performance in terms of timbre and access to what comes next.

 

It is far more likely that guitarists will strike out on their own and be self-taught or taught by their peers. Back when you had organs and pianos, guitarists were playing slide and bending notes. Violinists (bowed string players) have always been able to do this, I've never said any different.

 

There has been great progress in technology, not so much in tradition, that is the point I was trying to make, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

[Tusker]

Kuru, thanks very much for your post. The part you wrote about the history of music, might well have been written by me, LOL. We have so much in common. Many of us who play Bach's well tempered clavier kinda know that we can't fully appreciate his compositions in equal temperament. While I don't try to recreate Baroque music, I use scala compatible .tun files in Zebra to add flavors to drone oriented music at times. It can be fun! I also do pitch bends because they serve my musical purpose.

 

You can achieve a similar musical purpose holding out a high note with deep vibrato over changing chords. You can do it as a coloratura soprano, on a theremin, on a strat, on a guarneri, on a minimoog, or in the delightful Zebra HZ! In an earlier time a pipe organ would have a special set of tremulant pipes which could achieve a similar effect. An orchestrator for a movie today will have a choice of a number of instruments with which to communicate the same idea or emotion.

 

Keyboards are not new instruments nor are they primarily imitative instruments. But musicians do imitate musicians and mostly that is a good thing. We learn from each other. Pat Metheny remarked that he felt awkward copping horn lines and phrases, but felt a need to learn the vocabulary of the great horn players in order to find his own voice. I am so glad he did! The world is richer for it.

[KuruPrionz]

Kuru, thanks very much for your post. The part you wrote about the history of music, might well have been written by me, LOL. We have so much in common. Many of us who play Bach's well tempered clavier kinda know that we can't fully appreciate his compositions in equal temperament. While I don't try to recreate Baroque music, I use scala compatible .tun files in Zebra to add flavors to drone oriented music at times. It can be fun! I also do pitch bends because they serve my musical purpose.

 

You can achieve a similar musical purpose holding out a high note with deep vibrato over changing chords. You can do it as a coloratura soprano, on a theremin, on a strat, on a guarneri, on a minimoog, or in the delightful Zebra HZ! In an earlier time a pipe organ would have a special set of tremulant pipes which could achieve a similar effect. An orchestrator for a movie today will have a choice of a number of instruments with which to communicate the same idea or emotion.

 

Keyboards are not new instruments nor are they primarily imitative instruments. But musicians do imitate musicians and mostly that is a good thing. We learn from each other. Pat Metheny remarked that he felt awkward copping horn lines and phrases, but felt a need to learn the vocabulary of the great horn players in order to find his own voice. I am so glad he did! The world is richer for it.

 

Thanks Tusker, I am far more interested in everybody moving forward musically from this point then I am in playing "one-up-manship" in technology. I don't care what instrument is used if I love the music and I am very open to a wide range of musical expression.

 

That said, strings are essential to how I express myself and my caution with guitar synthesizers is born of the fact that there are still difficulties surrounding that technology.

I am not sure how you would solve the "heavy pick = moving fret" problem, a heavy pick is my standard gigging tool. I can invoke a large dynamic range using one and not worry about stepping on footswitches or fiddling with knobs (I don't like either of those options!).

 

Craig Anderson has mentioned his preference for a fairly heavy thumbpick being "kryptonite" for the same Fishman Triple Play system that I use, another devotee of the "heavy pick = movable fret".

As I mention in a post above, I can use the pads of my fingers to improve the performance of the guitar synth but it does not improve my own performance. I'll keep working on it.

[GovernorSilver]

I am aware of this welcome change. In the history of keyboards it is a relatively recent development. MANY keyboards have had pitch wheels for decades as well.

What I am saying is that our music education system is Euro-Centric for the most part and the notation used does not provide a simple, accurate way to document these important changes.

 

I can agree that lack of an uncomplicated system for notating music composed in non-standard scale tunings is an ongoing issue.

 

I recall you made the comment before about bending notes with a pitch wheel or guitar string get outside of standard temperament. I certainly support sticking to what works for you.

[KuruPrionz]

I am aware of this welcome change. In the history of keyboards it is a relatively recent development. MANY keyboards have had pitch wheels for decades as well.

What I am saying is that our music education system is Euro-Centric for the most part and the notation used does not provide a simple, accurate way to document these important changes.

 

I can agree that lack of an uncomplicated system for notating music composed in non-standard scale tunings is an ongoing issue.

 

Bending notes with a pitch wheel or guitar string can get you outside of standard temperament easily - but only if your music is monophonic (no harmony).

 

I often bend 2 strings to pitches that are not in the tempered scale and once in a while 3 strings. Mostly blues licks, maybe not the usual ones.

One could probably do similar things with aftertouch set to pitch on keyboards.

 

This is to say nothing of vibrato bars on guitars. I usually don't use one but I'm in the process of building another guitar with one. Then I can do all sorts of crazy.

[GovernorSilver]

Here is one person's proposed microtonal notation system for use with Dorico

 

https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/microtonal-notation-in-dorico/

 

[KuruPrionz]

Here is one person's proposed microtonal notation system for use with Dorico

 

https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/microtonal-notation-in-dorico/

 

 

Thanks, I never learned to read music (was almost legally blind until recent cataract surgery) but the Dorico article you linked is interesting and some of it echoes some of my own thoughts.

I'll read both of the articles, eventually.

[GovernorSilver]

The example music is three part harmony so I guess one could try to play it on standard guitar, assuming the tempo is within human limits.

 

Honestly though, once we're talking 3 or more notes of harmony, I'd rather just use a keyboard synth with the desired tuning loaded, and not have to deal with bending individual notes. It would be an unnecessary addition of difficulty with little payoff in return.

[Tusker]

Here is one person's proposed microtonal notation system for use with Dorico

 

Ah! Tickles my adventure bone!! Nice! Took a listen to a performance on YouTube and loved the sonorities they are getting. Bowed strings and choir (voice) appear to be where a lot of microtonal awareness seems to live. These guys are always blending their overtones series together. Jacob Collier's "In the Bleak MidWinter" was one of the few chordal microtonal pieces I had appreciated up to now. This is a leaping off place to find more. Cool stuff brother Paolo. Many thanks ...

[Tusker]

Thanks Tusker, I am far more interested in everybody moving forward musically from this point then I am in playing "one-up-manship" in technology. I don't care what instrument is used if I love the music and I am very open to a wide range of musical expression.

 

That said, strings are essential to how I express myself and my caution with guitar synthesizers is born of the fact that there are still difficulties surrounding that technology.

 

Thanks Kuru. I'll try not to be prickly about it. Sorry if I was being unduly defensive on behalf of keyboard players but we get tired of being pigeon holed.

 

I am not sure how you would solve the "heavy pick = moving fret" problem, a heavy pick is my standard gigging tool.

 

I wouldn't. I play keyboard synths, which have their own problems.

 

But as a fellow musician ... I am reminded of a couple of things which are musical and not technically related to the Fishman. In keyboard synth land, the attack of the minimoog is iconic because the ADSR envelope tends to hang at the peak of the envelope for about 20 milliseconds before descending into the decay phase. It's an unintentional bug which turned out to be very musical and one reason the minimoog ended up being such a fine bass instrument and so good at brassy style leads. It sounds like it's being compressed, without compression artifacts. I was reminded of this when Michael Harris (a guitarist friend) told me he admired the way Brett Garsed used his thumb (fleshy) to occasionally get a more a trumpet-like tone on the guitar. It reminded me of my technical problem with ADSRs and how I was setting about getting an authoritative yet melodic tone. So I think your flesh pads are more signal and less noise. Or to put it another way, perhaps the Fishman likes to have more immediately stable spectra to track accurately.

 

In keyboard synth land, we too think about a lot of problems with attack. We use pitch envelopes to get a blip at the beginning of a note. Sometimes we have a little noise shiff at the beginning of the sound. Both methods create inharmonic spectra at the beginning of the note which are great for aggression. But what do you do when you want to morph from a percussive sound, to a sound which gradually emerges in an interesting way ... like a choir swelling? It's a little tricky to finesse that kind of thing without sounding awkward. We use pressure pads (like Touche) or breath controllers, so as to overcome the limitations of the basic ADSR. That would be a bit like you using an e-bow or swell pedal or the knobs on your strat. Our tools are different but many of the problems we are trying to solve are the same.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[KuruPrionz]

Thanks Tusker, I am far more interested in everybody moving forward musically from this point then I am in playing "one-up-manship" in technology. I don't care what instrument is used if I love the music and I am very open to a wide range of musical expression.

 

That said, strings are essential to how I express myself and my caution with guitar synthesizers is born of the fact that there are still difficulties surrounding that technology.

 

Thanks Kuru. I'll try not to be prickly about it. Sorry if I was being unduly defensive on behalf of keyboard players but we get tired of being pigeon holed.

 

I am not sure how you would solve the "heavy pick = moving fret" problem, a heavy pick is my standard gigging tool.

 

I wouldn't. I play keyboard synths, which have their own problems.

 

But as a fellow musician ... I am reminded of a couple of things which are musical and not technically related to the Fishman. In keyboard synth land, the attack of the minimoog is iconic because the ADSR envelope tends to hang at the peak of the envelope for about 20 milliseconds before descending into the decay phase. It's an unintentional bug which turned out to be very musical and one reason the minimoog ended up being such a fine bass instrument and so good at brassy style leads. It sounds like it's being compressed, without compression artifacts. I was reminded of this when Michael Harris (a guitarist friend) told me he admired the way Brett Garsed used his thumb (fleshy) to occasionally get a more a trumpet-like tone on the guitar. It reminded me of my technical problem with ADSRs and how I was setting about getting an authoritative yet melodic tone. So I think your flesh pads are more signal and less noise. Or to put it another way, perhaps the Fishman likes to have more immediately stable spectra to track accurately.

 

In keyboard synth land, we too think about a lot of problems with attack. We use pitch envelopes to get a blip at the beginning of a note. Sometimes we have a little noise shiff at the beginning of the sound. Both methods create inharmonic spectra at the beginning of the note which are great for aggression. But what do you do when you want to go from a short percussive sound, to a sound which gradually emerges in an interesting way ... like a choir swelling? It's a little tricky to finesse that kind of thing without sounding awkward. We use pressure pads (like Touche) or breath controllers, so as to overcome the limitations of the basic ADSR. That would be a bit like you using an e-bow or swell pedal or the knobs on your strat. Our tools are different but many of the problems we are trying to solve are the same.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

 

Great post, I'll just address the fingers vs pick re Fishman thing. The problem with the heavy pick is that there the density and stiffness of the pick means there is a note ringing off the pick for a split second before the fretted note takes over. The Fishman picks up both the higher note and the transition to the lower note and since that is an almost instantaneous transition, it glitches on the attack and it isn't pretty. Playing guitar only, live or recorded, you'll never hear that initial pick/fret note, it's too fast.

 

Fingers and thumbs are softer than picks and do not create that initial attack note/glitch. That part is good. I'm pretty good at fingerpicking, that part is OK. I'm not great at fingerpicking and there's the rub, such as it is.

 

It means I have to chose which parts can be guitar synth and which can be guitar, you heard that in action from the music I linked.

 

As to the stereotyping, there's plenty to go around. According to some keyboard players, guitarists don't know anything about music theory and are always the loudest member of any band, plus they have bad attitudes in general.

I don't pay much attention to that sort of blatherspew. Some of it is undoubtedly true in some cases, that just means somebody made a poor choice of bandmates, no?

[Tusker]

Jacob Collier's "In the Bleak MidWinter" was one of the few chordal microtonal pieces I had appreciated up to now.

 

Just in case Kuru or others haven't experienced it, here' s David Bruce commenting on "In the Bleak Midwinter."

 

[video:youtube]

[Tusker]

The problem with the heavy pick is that there the density and stiffness of the pick means there is a note ringing off the pick for a split second before the fretted note takes over. The Fishman picks up both the higher note and the transition to the lower note and since that is an almost instantaneous transition, it glitches on the attack and it isn't pretty. Playing guitar only, live or recorded, you'll never hear that initial pick/fret note, it's too fast.

 

Fingers and thumbs are softer than picks and do not create that initial attack note/glitch. That part is good. I'm pretty good at fingerpicking, that part is OK. I'm not great at fingerpicking and there's the rub, such as it is.

 

It means I have to chose which parts can be guitar synth and which can be guitar, you heard that in action from the music I linked.

 

If the tools you are using are not sufficient to achieve your musical vision completely, you have three choices, Kuru. Live with that discomfort, change your vision, or change your tools. The tracking problem you are complaining of doesn't exist in the keyboard world where a controller's note has a one-to one-relationship with the sound generator's note.

 

Why do keyboards only have one of each note? That is not logical. I have 5 places I can play Middle C on a Strat. Just sayin'.

 

Perhaps it is logical after all?

[KuruPrionz]

The problem with the heavy pick is that there the density and stiffness of the pick means there is a note ringing off the pick for a split second before the fretted note takes over. The Fishman picks up both the higher note and the transition to the lower note and since that is an almost instantaneous transition, it glitches on the attack and it isn't pretty. Playing guitar only, live or recorded, you'll never hear that initial pick/fret note, it's too fast.

 

Fingers and thumbs are softer than picks and do not create that initial attack note/glitch. That part is good. I'm pretty good at fingerpicking, that part is OK. I'm not great at fingerpicking and there's the rub, such as it is.

 

It means I have to chose which parts can be guitar synth and which can be guitar, you heard that in action from the music I linked.

 

If the tools you are using are not sufficient to achieve your musical vision completely, you have three choices, Kuru. Live with that discomfort, change your vision, or change your tools. The tracking problem you are complaining of doesn't exist in the keyboard world where a controller's note has a one-to one-relationship with the sound generator's note.

 

Why do keyboards only have one of each note? That is not logical. I have 5 places I can play Middle C on a Strat. Just sayin'.

 

Perhaps it is logical after all?

 

I've made my choice and I can live with it, was simply explaining why some guitarists may choose to avoid guitar synths. It took me a long time to adapt to using a heavy pick and the results are excellent if you play guitar (and not guitar synth).

I enjoy playing with a full dynamic range at my fingertips, instantly available transitions from soft to louder. I'll just practice playing with fingers more and improve that skill. Yes, keyboards do not have the same problem. A key is essentially a type of switch, switches are less prone to interesting artifacts like strings. No disputing that but it is certainly a reason more keyboardists have embraced synth technology.

 

As to the Middle C thing, that is partly humor and partly an explanation of what I perceive as a primary reason for guitarists not embracing the European method of writing music on paper - (and why there are alternatives like Tab.) Many of us simply opted out on all written options, there is much to be said for all of the various ways of going about this thing. Obviously somebody who is blind is unlikely to play any instrument by using a written system since Braille requires one of the two hands to "read" what has been written.

 

Personally, up until very recently I was extremely near-sighted and now after cataract surgery I have excellent far vision and need reading glasses to see up close (not as close as I used to be able to see). I might have learned to read music if there had been simple inexpensive ways to make large sheets with music easily visible. Random, irrelevant thought about the past, so it goes.

 

Regarding logic, I will note that one big difference between guitar and keyboards is that once a guitarist has learned a scale as a "pattern" on the fretboard, they can simply move that pattern up and down the neck and it will be correct for any and every key. That seems very logical to me.

With the layout of a keyboard, that same scale will have a different pattern in each key - the fingering for C and C# are very different. This makes playing the two instruments very different and holds true for all stringed instruments - scales = patterns = a consistency in terms of fingering the notes. I don't have an opinion on which is better or worse since there are lots of people successfully navigating both systems and I don't really play keyboards to any extent.

 

What I do know is that I've found it fairly easy to play in a non-verbal, non-intellectual "zone" on the guitar and I enjoy that very much. Again, not a comment discerning "better or worse", just an observation based on a one-sided perspective. Either instrument (keyboards or strings) can be used to play any scale within their range. I don't and can't really know how other people's brains respond to playing their instrument. Obviously, MANY of us enjoy it!!!!

[Tusker]

My musical life changed in 1981. I had heard As falls Wichita and the first Pat Metheny Group album. I thought Offramp was going to be in that same direction. It was. But the second track blew me away. It was "Are You Going with Me." In it I heard a mature synthesized voice with a towering emotional range. Not just brash. Expressive. In that moment Pat Metheny became one of my favorite synthesists.

 

Over the years he hasn't changed the GR-300 VCO sound. (Though Craig found ways to improve the Hex fuzz side of things.) Pat's voice on it has got stronger, more lyrical, more confident. It was as prominent as ever on the last PMG CD, The Way Up a quarter century later. To many of us, that synthesized voice is integral to his productive writing partnership with Lyle Mays, who is a hero to us. I had a chance to listen to a live version of AYGWM today and it holds up as well as ever ...

 

[video:youtube]

[KuruPrionz]

Nice, thanks for sharing!

This isn't synth but it is one of my favorite guitar pieces by one of my favorite guitarists, Jeff Beck.

 

[Zalman Stern]

A complex pedal board is pretty close to an analog modular synth without gate signals. And many guitarists do use this as an integral part of their performance capabilities. One can even trigger samples and such these days.

 

Fundamentally a keyboard mechanism is a mechanical intermediary between the fingers and sound. This makes converting that mechanism into an electrical or digital signal much easier. The question is like asking why we don't build keyboard based synthesizers by putting sensors on all the strings in a piano or all the tonewheel outputs in a Hammond or on all the tines in a Rhodes... Then again, maybe we should :-)

 

-Z-

[Tusker]

The question is like asking why we don't build keyboard based synthesizers by putting sensors on all the strings in a piano or all the tonewheel outputs in a Hammond or on all the tines in a Rhodes... Then again, maybe we should :-)

 

A wonderfully thought provoking idea! Perhaps in a sense John Cage's prepared pianos could be considered an attempt at that: unique sound design for each unique string?

 

I imagine with electric guitars and hex pickups you could route different strings through very divergent effect/synthesis paths? I wonder if Kuru or others have experience with this?

 

There are related acoustic traditions of polytimbrality using different sounding drone strings particularly in cultures which were less influenced by the European harmonic tradition. In a modern example, Nathan Barr shows off his cello + drone about 8 minutes into this. There are a few other drone string goodies before that which would be more familiar...

 

 

Once you get into the computer, many instruments allow you to define different characteristics for each of the 128 notes. Though as you noted, this is not something many of us consider and maybe we should ...

[KuruPrionz]

^^^ That is by far one of the most incredible things I've seen anywhere, thanks for sharing!!!!

 

An analog "synth"!

 

Back to guitar synths. The interface for the Fishman Triple Play allows you to dedicate "splits" and assign synths to the splits. I've set the low 2 strings for a bass synth and the high 4 strings to another bank of synths.

You can also run up to 3 synths in parallel AND there is a guitar channel as well, which takes the output of the guitar strings from the Fishman pickup and allows you to dedicate guitar plugins to that channel.

 

With the exception that converting strings to MIDI is not entirely sussed out yet, it is a well-conceived package and I'm certain there are some guitarists who utilize it with far more depth than I do.

[GovernorSilver]

I imagine with electric guitars and hex pickups you could route different strings through very divergent effect/synthesis paths? I wonder if Kuru or others have experience with this?

 

I haven't done anything as interesting as the folks in the following videos.

 

Demo of guitar with a hexaphonic pickup sending 6 audio channels to SynQuanNon Eurorack modules.

 

Description:

 

"This patch as built feeds a complex LFO arpeggio into the per string resonance and filter CV's of the Hex Filter, master resonance and filter controlled by expression pedals. The per string VCA CV's are gated via sequenced ASR.

 

This leads to the pleasant result of staccato synth arpeggio sounds, playable by delicate fingertips in a tap guitar playstyle."

 

[video:youtube]

 

This video emphasizes dividing the 6 strings into groups and processing each group differently.

 

[video:youtube]

[Tusker]

These are awesome examples! Thank you Paulo. The first one in reminds me of

techniques used in gamelan and prepared piano. Lot's of creative possibilities!