What's In A (Brand) Name?

[Danzilla]

In one of my bands, the guy who had the great PA moved out of state and had the nerve to take his personally owned system with him. It fell to me to dust off my old, cobbled-together PA rig for a couple of gigs. Nothing pretty, but it works. I am slowly replacing some pieces, and have noticed that a lot of items look all the same, but with a different name badge. So, are they all really made in the same place nowadays? Just like most overseas guitars are made by Samick or Cort, are Mackie, QSC, Harbinger, Behringer, etc. all made in the same factory? And does anyone know if the current line of Carvin gear is made in the USA, or are THEY part of those overseas factory lines as well?

[KuruPrionz]

I thought Carvin went out of business?

Just the guitars are made and under a different name?

 

You left out Peavey!!! They have some god products too.

I'm pretty sure some things are made in the same factory, jobbers will work for whoever pays them.

 

Good speakers and quality cables are the best place to put money in PA gear. Most inexpensive mixers are pretty damn good and if you get powered speakers you'll need fewer cables overall. Just make sure your mixer has the outputs. Pretty standard to run a stereo mixer as dual mono - one side for the mains and one for the monitors. On quite a few mixers that gives you separate output EQs so you can tweak them to sound the best.

 

Get a subwoofer!!! We are using a cheap Kustom 12" sub and it is surprising how much difference that makes in the overall sound. It reduces IMD considerably, has a bigger low end and takes the load off the mains so you can use smaller ones.

[Anderton]

I am slowly replacing some pieces, and have noticed that a lot of items look all the same, but with a different name badge. So, are they all really made in the same place nowadays? Just like most overseas guitars are made by Samick or Cort, are Mackie, QSC, Harbinger, Behringer, etc. all made in the same factory? And does anyone know if the current line of Carvin gear is made in the USA, or are THEY part of those overseas factory lines as well?

 

Don't know about Carvin, but when I visited a factory in Shenzhen a while ago, they were making gear for Mackie, Radio Shack, ART, and a bunch of other companies. Things probably haven't changed much since then.

[Mike Rivers]

. . . . have noticed that a lot of items look all the same, but with a different name badge. So, are they all really made in the same place nowadays? Just like most overseas guitars are made by Samick or Cort, are Mackie, QSC, Harbinger, Behringer, etc. all made in the same factory? And does anyone know if the current line of Carvin gear is made in the USA, or are THEY part of those overseas factory lines as well?

 

I don't know the story about Carvin - they may have been a subcontractor to some of those companies at one time - speaker cabinets, circuit board assembly, and such - but I can assure you that Mackie, QSC, and Behringer, as well as PreSonus, Focusrite, Allen & Heath, JBL, etc. are made in their own factories and designed by their own engineering teams. Interestingly, there's less "me too" in designs of similarly functional products than there was 20 years ago. Most are manufactured in China, but this isn't as fearful regarding quality as it was 20 years ago either. This gives you more reasons to buy one over another, based on a unique feature or two that you might find useful.

[Danzilla]

. . . . have noticed that a lot of items look all the same, but with a different name badge. So, are they all really made in the same place nowadays? Just like most overseas guitars are made by Samick or Cort, are Mackie, QSC, Harbinger, Behringer, etc. all made in the same factory? And does anyone know if the current line of Carvin gear is made in the USA, or are THEY part of those overseas factory lines as well?

 

I don't know the story about Carvin - they may have been a subcontractor to some of those companies at one time - speaker cabinets, circuit board assembly, and such - but I can assure you that Mackie, QSC, and Behringer, as well as PreSonus, Focusrite, Allen & Heath, JBL, etc. are made in their own factories and designed by their own engineering teams. Interestingly, there's less "me too" in designs of similarly functional products than there was 20 years ago. Most are manufactured in China, but this isn't as fearful regarding quality as it was 20 years ago either. This gives you more reasons to buy one over another, based on a unique feature or two that you might find useful.

 

 

I'm trying not to be TOO jingoistic and strictly "American Made Only" partly because almost nothing is anymore. Looking at stuff online, features & layouts between the current Carvin Audio powered speakers, and those by Harbinger, Mackie, Behringer, and others, all look very similar and have super similar features. Thus my question.

 

As to Kuru's points... My old PA is a Peavey MD II - 12 mixer (12 channels; great sounding pre-amps, real spring reverb on it!) into a dual EQ and BBE Sonic Maximizer, to power amps (Carvin 1000 watt for mains; Samson 400 watt for monitors); mains are two old Peavey 10-12-H passive cabinets; and two passive Nady 12+Horn monitor wedges.

 

Due to the mixer's limited outputs & monitor capabilities, I just scored a used Carvin 16 channel mixer (same model as I had used at my church years ago) which has great sub busses, 4 band EQ per channel, 2 graphic master EQ's, multiple on board effects (but I'll only use reverb), and 6 monitor outputs, as well as a sub woofer out. I loved using it at church, and should be able to mix efficiently with it for the band.

 

I also bought some QSC CP12 powered speakers, that can be used for either mains or monitors, so I'll swap their purpose as needed.

 

So mainly looking for either powered mains with 15" speakers. Not super concerned about subs due to us only being a trio, having smaller footprints (both on stage and in storage at my house), and not being a "kick drum in the chest is all you need" band. The mains all seem similar, so I don't want to blow more money than needed just for a name; but I am staying away from certain brands on principle.

[KuruPrionz]

. . . . have noticed that a lot of items look all the same, but with a different name badge. So, are they all really made in the same place nowadays? Just like most overseas guitars are made by Samick or Cort, are Mackie, QSC, Harbinger, Behringer, etc. all made in the same factory? And does anyone know if the current line of Carvin gear is made in the USA, or are THEY part of those overseas factory lines as well?

 

I don't know the story about Carvin - they may have been a subcontractor to some of those companies at one time - speaker cabinets, circuit board assembly, and such - but I can assure you that Mackie, QSC, and Behringer, as well as PreSonus, Focusrite, Allen & Heath, JBL, etc. are made in their own factories and designed by their own engineering teams. Interestingly, there's less "me too" in designs of similarly functional products than there was 20 years ago. Most are manufactured in China, but this isn't as fearful regarding quality as it was 20 years ago either. This gives you more reasons to buy one over another, based on a unique feature or two that you might find useful.

 

 

I'm trying not to be TOO jingoistic and strictly "American Made Only" partly because almost nothing is anymore. Looking at stuff online, features & layouts between the current Carvin Audio powered speakers, and those by Harbinger, Mackie, Behringer, and others, all look very similar and have super similar features. Thus my question.

 

As to Kuru's points... My old PA is a Peavey MD II - 12 mixer (12 channels; great sounding pre-amps, real spring reverb on it!) into a dual EQ and BBE Sonic Maximizer, to power amps (Carvin 1000 watt for mains; Samson 400 watt for monitors); mains are two old Peavey 10-12-H passive cabinets; and two passive Nady 12+Horn monitor wedges.

 

Due to the mixer's limited outputs & monitor capabilities, I just scored a used Carvin 16 channel mixer (same model as I had used at my church years ago) which has great sub busses, 4 band EQ per channel, 2 graphic master EQ's, multiple on board effects (but I'll only use reverb), and 6 monitor outputs, as well as a sub woofer out. I loved using it at church, and should be able to mix efficiently with it for the band.

 

I also bought some QSC CP12 powered speakers, that can be used for either mains or monitors, so I'll swap their purpose as needed.

 

So mainly looking for either powered mains with 15" speakers. Not super concerned about subs due to us only being a trio, having smaller footprints (both on stage and in storage at my house), and not being a "kick drum in the chest is all you need" band. The mains all seem similar, so I don't want to blow more money than needed just for a name; but I am staying away from certain brands on principle.

 

Great post, I get why you replaced your mixer, it's nice to have all that connectivity.

 

FWIW, our bandleader has all JBL speakers, a pair of 15" 2 ways and a pair of 12" 2 2 ways. His Kustom 12" sub is no bigger and certainly not heavier than one of his JBL 15" cabs and it puts out more clear, fat, punchy bass than both 15" 2-ways put together. We've done quite a few gigs with one 12 2-way up on the pole in the subwoofer socket and one for a monitor. It's plenty loud, the overall load is smaller and I sure don't miss helping to put the 15" 2-way up and down on the pole!!!! As a value added feature, the 12" has better frequency response so they can cross it over a bit higher, which brings a better vocal sound (less honk) and reduces the load on the horn since it doesn't have to go so low (less current up high).

 

In other words, I don't think you'll need or want 2 15" cabs if you have a sub. You might be fine with 10" 2-ways, speakers are better now than they've ever been. Smaller, lighter, less expensive and better sound.

Something to consider.

 

I wouldn't rule out a subwoofer until you hear what it can do for your system, size, weight and $$$$. You may be pleasantly surprised. We won't be selling the one we have, it's worked out really well.

Our bassist got a 10" sub for reinforcement on his bass rig and sometimes we've gigged successfully using that instead of the 12" and just running the bass DI so he gets the sound he wants.

 

We plan on replacing the 15" speakers with something smaller and lighter and I won't miss them for 1 second. Cheers, Kuru

[Mike Rivers]

 

I'm trying not to be TOO jingoistic and strictly "American Made Only" partly because almost nothing is anymore. Looking at stuff online, features & layouts between the current Carvin Audio powered speakers, and those by Harbinger, Mackie, Behringer, and others, all look very similar and have super similar features. Thus my question.

 

Well, how many different ways can you make a powered speaker, or an analog mixer, or an audio interface, for that matter? You want a round speaker cabinet? or a mixer with the faders at the top? Specifications appear similar because there are certain "classes" of equipment - cost is a big factor here - that means that any speaker that's designed to cover an audience of 250 needs to have a certain amount of power and certain size drivers. There are tricks that can be played with efficiency that give a spec of 1000 watts for a powered speaker that uses a Class D amplifier rather than 250 watts for another that uses a Class AB amplifier, but that doesn't mean one is better than the other.

 

Where you see more significant differences in design and frequently in front panel layout and control naming is in "boutique" items such as mic preamps, compressors, or reverb units. There's more room for design and application creativity with items like this rather than "commodity" items like powered speakers or PA mixers.

 

... My old PA is a Peavey MD II - 12 mixer into a dual EQ and BBE Sonic Maximizer, to power amps (Carvin 1000 watt for mains; Samson 400 watt for monitors); mains are two old Peavey 10-12-H passive cabinets; and two passive Nady 12+Horn monitor wedges.

 

Due to the mixer's limited outputs & monitor capabilities, I just scored a used Carvin 16 channel mixer which has great sub busses, 4 band EQ per channel, 2 graphic master EQ's, multiple on board effects (but I'll only use reverb), and 6 monitor outputs, as well as a sub woofer out. I loved using it at church, and should be able to mix efficiently with it for the band.

 

I also bought some QSC CP12 powered speakers, that can be used for either mains or monitors, so I'll swap their purpose as needed.

 

The fact that you can mix-and-match system components easily is one of the benefits of making a lot of the external features pretty much the same across the board. For example, your mixers, outboard EQ and Sonic Maximizer probably all have 1/4" phone jacks for inputs and outputs, which may only differ in how they work (pretty much equally well) with balanced or unbalanced connections. If you switched to, say, a larger Allen & Heath mixer, you'd find at least some of the outputs on XLR connectors (which, conventionally also defines the operating level) so you'd need some new cables and maybe have to re-adjust input and output levels on other gear in your system to provide all the headroom that you've bought. It's not a big deal, but it's something you gotta do.

 

So mainly looking for either powered mains with 15" speakers. Not super concerned about subs due to us only being a trio, having smaller footprints (both on stage and in storage at my house), and not being a "kick drum in the chest is all you need" band. The mains all seem similar, so I don't want to blow more money than needed just for a name; but I am staying away from certain brands on principle.

 

If you were to dig into specifications, you'd find that there are some differences that might matter to you. It could be in mounting hardware, it could be in input and output connections, it could be in extra features like equalization (some being simple, others being rather complex), size, weight, and - very important and not often well stated in specs - directivity and coverage. Do you really need a 15" bass speaker, or will a system with a 12" speaker of somewhat different internal design provide the same or better coverage and save you a couple of cubic feet and 15 pounds? There's more to choosing a speaker system than size of the drivers and the price. In some instances, you can get away with the cheapest one and trust that the maker hasn't sacrificed reliability to save a few bucks, but more money doesn't necessarily buy better reliability, though sometimes it buys better build quality so the cabinet won't fall apart if you drop it when taking it out of the van.

 

Sometimes, too, the reputation of the manufacturer is one of the better indicators as to which would be the best choice for you, but just about all of the lower costs products that have been around for a long time have had a black mark or two against them, which has almost certainly been cleared up in the next edition (which is one reason to be very careful when buying used). For example, Mackie's first Class D amplifiers weren't sufficiently heat-sinked when operated on their side as monitors due to the orientation of the heat sink fins. They figured that out after replacing a lot of amplifiers under warranty and it's no longer a problem.

 

Who can you trust to give you the best recommendation? Sadly, just yourself. It's up to you to research more than just price.

[GovernorSilver]

I thought Carvin went out of business?

 

Unlikely, as they're having a 4th of July sale:

https://carvinaudio.com/

 

The Kiesel family continues to run the company. What you might be thinking of is the creation of the Kiesel Guitar company as an apparently separate venture, and the majority of Carvin's guitar product line moving under the Kiesel brand.

[KuruPrionz]

I thought Carvin went out of business?

 

Unlikely, as they're having a 4th of July sale:

https://carvinaudio.com/

 

The Kiesel family continues to run the company. What you might be thinking of is the creation of the Kiesel Guitar company as an apparently separate venture, and the majority of Carvin's guitar product line moving under the Kiesel brand.

 

 

Thanks, I stand corrected. I did know about Kiesel guitars, they look gorgeous in the photos.

 

At the same time...I had to google it because it was quite a while ago. It sounds like they figured out a way to keep going, I think that's awesome but I wasn't paying attention.

This is one of many articles proclaiming the end of Carvin, or as they say "The announcement of my death is premature." From 2017.

 

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/carvin-audio-closes-factory-will-liquidate-assets

[GovernorSilver]

I thought Carvin went out of business?

 

Unlikely, as they're having a 4th of July sale:

https://carvinaudio.com/

 

The Kiesel family continues to run the company. What you might be thinking of is the creation of the Kiesel Guitar company as an apparently separate venture, and the majority of Carvin's guitar product line moving under the Kiesel brand.

 

 

Thanks, I stand corrected. I did know about Kiesel guitars, they look gorgeous in the photos.

 

At the same time...I had to google it because it was quite a while ago. It sounds like they figured out a way to keep going, I think that's awesome but I wasn't paying attention.

This is one of many articles proclaiming the end of Carvin, or as they say "The announcement of my death is premature." From 2017.

 

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/carvin-audio-closes-factory-will-liquidate-assets

 

This blog post announced a change of leadership and new centralized US warehouse. However, it does not mention a factory, so reading between the lines, perhaps they now have their products manufactured outside the US.

 

I visited the Carvin showroom once, when my friends and I were entertaining an Italian visitor who we'd met through the Chapman Stick community. He had come to shop for a new bass guitar, with the intention of taking it home with him, as he reasoned that the cost of travel/vacation in the US plus taking the new bass back with him would be a better deal than buying a similarly spec'd bass in Italy.

 

https://carvinaudio.com/blogs/news/announcing-the-new-leadership-team

[KuruPrionz]

I thought Carvin went out of business?

 

Unlikely, as they're having a 4th of July sale:

https://carvinaudio.com/

 

The Kiesel family continues to run the company. What you might be thinking of is the creation of the Kiesel Guitar company as an apparently separate venture, and the majority of Carvin's guitar product line moving under the Kiesel brand.

 

 

Thanks, I stand corrected. I did know about Kiesel guitars, they look gorgeous in the photos.

 

At the same time...I had to google it because it was quite a while ago. It sounds like they figured out a way to keep going, I think that's awesome but I wasn't paying attention.

This is one of many articles proclaiming the end of Carvin, or as they say "The announcement of my death is premature." From 2017.

 

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/carvin-audio-closes-factory-will-liquidate-assets

 

This blog post announced a change of leadership and new centralized US warehouse. However, it does not mention a factory, so reading between the lines, perhaps they now have their products manufactured outside the US.

 

I visited the Carvin showroom once, when my friends and I were entertaining an Italian visitor who we'd met through the Chapman Stick community. He had come to shop for a new bass guitar, with the intention of taking it home with him, as he reasoned that the cost of travel/vacation in the US plus taking the new bass back with him would be a better deal than buying a similarly spec'd bass in Italy.

 

https://carvinaudio.com/blogs/news/announcing-the-new-leadership-team

 

Thanks for that. Yeah, you are probably correct that they've had to join the herd to survive.

At some point, I predict that manufacturing will return to our country, but not jobs. Robotics is making inroads in all phases of manufacturing and 3d printing keeps getting faster and more versatile.

Manufacturing of the future will be 3d printed robots operating 3d printers and assembling things. There won't be much need for workers on the assembly line any more. Kinda glad I am old!!!!!

[Notes_Norton]

A couple of years ago, I upgraded to Electro-voice EV ZLX15P, and they sound much, much better than the equivalent Carvins that I retired. Tighter and cleaner sounds with better mids.

 

https://products.electrovoice.com/la/en/zlx-15p

 

I play in a duo, http://www.s-cats.com

 

Notes

[RABid]

Being made in the same factory does not mean they have the same quality. Different companies have specifications for part quality, variance and tolerance.

 

By the way, I have EV, JBL and QSC powered speakers. Have to say that EV hits my sweet spot for value considering price, sound quality, audible volume and weight.