Chords (well, bass notes) for "Ride Like The Wind"

[stoken6]

It feels like I've been playing this Christopher Cross tune since I was out of short trousers - but I've never been happy with my reproduction of the instrumental section that acts as a chorus. The upper notes are obvious - they are diatonic sevenths built on the first, second and third degrees of the scale (so Cm7, Dm7, EbM7).

 

However, embarrassingly enough, I'm struggling to hear the bass movement - I don't think it follows the upper structures. It sounds to me like the first three bars pedal C, and the fourth has a rising movement, as the upper chords fall:

EbM7 / C

Dm7 / D

Cm7 / Eb

Dm7 / G ???

 

How do forumites' golden ears perceive it?

 

Many thanks for any help you can provide.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MathOfInsects]

I think the first half it goes from the C pedals to C, Bb, G, F, and the second it goes from the pedals to what you have above.

[AROIOS]

It feels like I've been playing this Christopher Cross tune since I was out of short trousers - but I've never been happy with my reproduction of the instrumental section that acts as a chorus. The upper notes are obvious - they are diatonic sevenths built on the first, second and third degrees of the scale (so Cm7, Dm7, EbM7).

 

However, embarrassingly enough, I'm struggling to hear the bass movement - I don't think it follows the upper structures. It sounds to me like the first three bars pedal C, and the fourth has a rising movement, as the upper chords fall:

EbM7 / C

Dm7 / D

Cm7 / Eb

Dm7 / G ???

 

How do forumites' golden ears perceive it?

 

Many thanks for any help you can provide.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

The chorus is just two chords: bAmaj13-Gm11.

 

Are you referring to the bridge (scats and horns)?

 

If yes, the chords are: Cmin9 - F13sus4 - Cmin9 - F6/9; Cmin9 - bBmaj13 - bEadd9/G - F6/9

[stoken6]

The chorus is just two chords: bAmaj13-Gm11

That's the "I've got such a long way to go" section. I hear it as a pre-chorus, but no biggie.

Are you referring to the bridge (scats and horns)? If yes, the chords are: Cmin9 - F13sus4 - Cmin9 - F6/9; Cmin9 - bBmaj13 - bEadd9/G - F6/9

Yes that's the section I mean. I think you're providing chords for bars 4 and 8. How would you voice these?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AROIOS]

The chorus is just two chords: bAmaj13-Gm11

That's the "I've got such a long way to go" section. I hear it as a pre-chorus, but no biggie.

Are you referring to the bridge (scats and horns)? If yes, the chords are: Cmin9 - F13sus4 - Cmin9 - F6/9; Cmin9 - bBmaj13 - bEadd9/G - F6/9

Yes that's the section I mean. I think you're providing chords for bars 4 and 8. How would you voice these?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Assuming that you don't have to cover the scats and horns' highest notes, I would voice the chords as shown in the attachment.

[stoken6]

Thank you Ariois and MoI.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MathOfInsects]

Sorry to be a pest, but Mike, you were asking about the bass movement on these sections, correct? If so, that chart is incorrect. The section in question consists of two parts: a pedal section, and then a pushed half-note walkdown. ("Bah...Bah...Bah...Bah..."). That whole structure happens twice. The pedal section has the same groovy bass pedal pattern on C each time. It's a really funky part, actually--but all over C. Then the pushed half-note walkdown has two different bass parts associated with it. The first time, it's C, Bb, G, F; second it's C, D, Eb, G.

 

I like those upper structure voicings; the bass just isn't correct. I went back and listened just to be sure my ear/memory wasn't screwing with me.

 

(I too would designate the "long way to go" part a pre-chorus.)

[stoken6]

Thanks for your second explanation Math. Yes I was asking about the bass notes specifically.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AROIOS]

"The pedal section has the same groovy bass pedal pattern on C each time."

The bass notes are not on C each time. In the first repetition, they are F on the 2nd chord and A on the 4th chord. In the second repetition, they are C on the 2nd and F on the 4th.

 

The reason I voiced these chords with C and F roots is because they capture the 2-5 nature of these progressions.

 

With that said, using C throughout is perfectly fine and shouldn't make anyone frown except the most picky listeners.

 

IImin9 and V13sus4 only differ in the root note, so the choice between C and F would simply be a matter of whether we wanna introduce a short, temporary resolution faithful to the original; or maintaining the tension by sticking with C.

 

Similarly, II6/9sus4, V6/9 and V6/9/VII only differ in the root note. V6/9/VII (as heard in the 1st repetition) is just the 1st inversion of V6/9. And II6/9sus4 (if we use C) is just the 2nd inversion of V6/9. So the choice between C and F (or A) is, again, just a matter of how much temporary resolution we wanna introduce.

 

second it's C, D, Eb, G.

 

Yup.

[MathOfInsects]

I think it's possible you're listening to a different version, or a different part of the song? This live version makes pretty clear what is going on bass-wise, and is the same as the record; you can even watch his fingers if it helps makes things clearer. Jump ahead to 2:50 mark for the first walkdown, and the 3:05 mark for the second one. Sorry to keep on this, but these threads end up getting searched later on, so I want to be sure the information is clear.

 

Again, the question is about what the bass is playing in this section. Check out the video and if you still hear an A in this section, timecode it so we know what you're referring to.

 

[AROIOS]

I think it's possible you're listening to a different version, or a different part of the song? This live version makes pretty clear what is going on bass-wise, and is the same as the record; you can even watch his fingers if it helps makes things clearer. Jump ahead to 2:50 mark for the first walkdown, and the 3:05 mark for the second one. Sorry to keep on this, but these threads end up getting searched later on, so I want to be sure the information is clear.

 

Again, the question is about what the bass is playing in this section. Check out the video and if you still hear an A in this section, timecode it so we know what you're referring to.

 

Yes, I was referring to the studio version.

 

Live versions are often played differently from the studio version, sometimes going as far as completely re-harmonizing or re-arranging the song. So personally, I would avoid picking a live version as reference unless specified by the original request.

 

In the studio version, bass is F for the V13sus4 at 1:40, A for the V6/9(1st inversion) at 1:44; and F again for the V6/9 at 1:59.

 

While we try to remain faithful to the original recording, let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. As I mentioned earlier, the choice between C, F and A as root notes on the "5" in these 2-5 progressions is a matter of tension/resolution design. The arranger and/or the bass player are free to experiment with the 3rd (1st inversion) or 5th (2nd inversion) note as root on these chords.

 

[video:youtube]

[MathOfInsects]

Ok, this confirms you are talking about a different part of the song. The passage the OP is asking about starts at 1:48 here and goes to 1:52. Then it happens again 2:03 and goes to 2:06.

 

I don't think anyone posting here is unclear on the general distinction between recorded and live versions of song; I was only hoping you might be able to see or hear the bass better with the live version, as the bassline is the same as the recording.

 

Regarding the pedal section you are focusing on: it seems you may be pulling out certain approach tones in the pedal section and calling them their own thing. The bass in the section you time-coded pedals on C. That terminology doesn't necessary imply the player never plays anything other than C; it simply means it rests harmonically on C through the changes. (That is, there can be approach tones involved in a pedal section.) There are actually a fair number of approach tones through this section, beyond those you mentioned; it's really a funky part.

 

But it doesn't address the OP's question, so I just wanted to be clear. You are discussing something else.

[Mjazz]

Here's the guitar chart that Christopher Cross prepared for publication on his website. He doesn't show the bass player's bass line, just his own guitar part, but it's interesting to see how he conceptualizes the chords.

 

Many of you over the years have asked for true guitar tabs for my songs. I have finally begun to assemble them. I considered creating an app, but as a thank you for all your support I"m putting them on my site for you to enjoy.

 

These are the actual chords and fingerings I used in writing, recording and as well as performing the songs. The process is quite tedious so it has taken me while, but please check back from time to time, my goal is to create these for my entire catalog.

 

Happy Pickin,

Christopher

[MathOfInsects]

Oh, nice! AROIOS, see the slash chords at the bottom of page 2/top of page 3 and at the bottom of page 4 for the pedal section. All those /C chords indicate that the section is pedaled. What the player does while resting on that C is up to that individual. But the section itself is still "pedaled."

[Mjazz]

OT, but kinda interesting ... The keyboard player in the live performance posted above (the redhead at the keys behind Christoper C) is Kiki Ebsen, She's the daughter of Buddy Ebsen ... who was, for those of us old enough to remember, Jed Clampett in the Beverly Hillbillies, and Barnaby Jones.

[AROIOS]

Ok, this confirms you are talking about a different part of the song. The passage the OP is asking about starts at 1:48 here and goes to 1:52. Then it happens again 2:03 and goes to 2:06.

That would be the "Cmin9 - bBmaj13 - bEadd9/G - F6/9" as I mentioned earlier. It's variant in the 2nd repetition is Cmin9 - Dmin9 - bE6 - G9sus4

 

Here's the guitar chart that Christopher Cross prepared for publication on his website. He doesn't show the bass player's bass line, just his own guitar part, but it's interesting to see how he conceptualizes the chords.

That chart is an adaptation for guitar and have to water down the harmonic complexity of the original arrangement for obvious reasons.

 

By simplifying F6/9 to F, and Cmin9 to Gm/C, that chart is already losing some of the original arrangement's sonic sophistication. And the value of Chris' intent on the C pedal tone as reflected by that chart is limited, when we have the luxury of a keyboard, let alone a full band.

 

Regarding the pedal section you are focusing on: it seems you may be pulling out certain approach tones in the pedal section and calling them their own thing. The bass in the section you time-coded pedals on C. That terminology doesn't necessary imply the player never plays anything other than C; it simply means it rests harmonically on C through the changes. (That is, there can be approach tones involved in a pedal section.) There are actually a fair number of approach tones through this section, beyond those you mentioned; it's really a funky part.

 

I understand your (and Chris') pedal tone perspective, it's congruent with the 2-5 angle I look at. From your perspective, many 2-5 progressions/repetitions (e.g. IIm7-G9sus4-II6/9sus4-G6/9) can be considered "pedaled" if we simply sustain the 2's root onto the 5s.

 

If we stick to the original meaning of "pedal" (as in a sustained or repeating note), the song's original arrangement is not "pedaled", due to the F and A bass notes being played. If we stretch "pedal"s definition to refer to roots and inversions that fit all chords in a progression as you mentioned, then I would consider "common tone" a better terminology.

 

And I certainly wouldn't call the Fs and As passing or approaching tones. These notes hit the first downbeat and play a strong role in suggesting the harmonic function in conjunction with their upper structures.

 

Cheers.

[Outkaster]

Man I'll tell you one thing Christopher Cross plays a hell of a solo in that one live clip from 1998.

[MathOfInsects]

That would be the "Cmin9 - Bbmaj13 - bEadd9/G - F6/9" ...It's variant in the 2nd repetition is Cmin9 - Dmin9 - Eb6 - G9sus4

 

The part I bolded is what he was asking about in his post. It sounds like we agree.

 

I won't get into the pedal tone stuff. I think this thread has served its purpose.

 

Great song.

[AROIOS]

That would be the "Cmin9 - Bbmaj13 - bEadd9/G - F6/9" ...It's variant in the 2nd repetition is Cmin9 - Dmin9 - Eb6 - G9sus4

 

The part I bolded is what he was asking about in his post. It sounds like we agree.

 

I won't get into the pedal tone stuff. I think this thread has served its purpose.

 

Great song.

 

[stoken6]

Hey I'll drink to that! Thanks MoI for posting that live clip, great song and great performance. I always knew Chris could play - even that rhythm part is really fiddly on guitar and he plays it like he does it in his sleep. The solo is great - just when I get bored of the pentatonic stuff he breaks out of it.

 

Thank you and good night.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[synthizen2]

One thing that often gets mentioned about Christopher Cross in the music press is how he "made it just in time" just before the MTV emphasis on "looks" took over in the early 80s. He has much more of a 70s aesthetic in his approach, almost like a "Steely Dan" kind of sound, perfect for pre-MTV '77 to '80 AOR FM airplay.

 

The idea being that, had CC come of age just a couple of years too late, he wouldn't have become as popular as he did. As talented of a songwriter/singer/player he was... selling his music on "looks" wouldn't have worked. Thus the faceless album covers. No dig intended here, great songs and arrangements for sure, as sophisticated as things got in late 70s pop on a purely musical level.

[BRW]

One thing that often gets mentioned about Christopher Cross in the music press is how he "made it just in time" just before the MTV emphasis on "looks" took over in the early 80s. He has much more of a 70s aesthetic in his approach, almost like a "Steely Dan" kind of sound, perfect for pre-MTV '77 to '80 AOR FM airplay.

 

The idea being that, had CC come of age just a couple of years too late, he wouldn't have become as popular as he did. As talented of a songwriter/singer/player he was... selling his music on "looks" wouldn't have worked. Thus the faceless album covers. No dig intended here, great songs and arrangements for sure, as sophisticated as things got in late 70s pop on a purely musical level.

 

Very much so, as a "yacht rock" / AOR aficionado I've always loved this song, that era, and the "L.A. sound" from 1977 to about 1982. And also the Japanese counterparts known as "City Pop" from that same era and a little bit later.

 

Actually what you described did happen to Cross later, when "Arthur's Theme" came out (1981?). MTV launched that same year and I guess they needed to do a video, which then got airplay. It has been well documented how people were caught by surprise by his looks (again, no dig), and his popularity was never quite the same... Sad but true

[o0Ampy0o]

I was surprised by Cross's looks but Joe Cocker and Phil Collins managed to come through the MTV period extending their careers with popular new music and it had to include an appeal to a younger demographic in order to do so.

 

I suspect it was the material that had at least as much to do with his appearance as well as his sort of low key persona that stopped CC's momentum. After that debut he did not have any material that came close to it. Arthur's Theme became a hit because of his earlier popularity as well as the Arthur (film) push from Hollywood. Everyone was hungry for more from him but it is not a catchy tune like those songs which he became famous for. Ride Like the Wind and Sailing go well with driving a car.

[MathOfInsects]

And also the Japanese counterparts known as "City Pop" from that same era and a little bit later.

 

New one on me. I went youtube rabbit-holing and damn. Thank you for hipping me to this sound/era/genre.