Is Fatar TP40L supposed to have 3-4 graded spring zones?

[mrp]

Meanwhile, alongside the sensational Made in Tunisia information, it's now official that you can no longer obtain any TP40L parts new via Nord/Kurzweil distributors. Should any minor part fail - they suggest you buy a new TP40L assembly as the only option. That's how dispensable Fatar has become. Is that even complying under the Consumer Rights Act?

 

Avarice, gluttony and sloth, if you ask me: https://www.instagram.com/marcrag/

I mean, what's wrong with them, yes you've guessed it, they're posting food on Instagram.

[synthetic]

TP40L = light touch

TP40M = standard touch

TP40H = heavy touch

TP40GH = graded

 

http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_40_GH_ES.htm

 

Yes, they make most components in Tunisia now.

[mrp]

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

I wonder if the pasta guy can be made responsible for consciously refusing to sell these parts he gets a dime a dozen.

 

Kurzweil has become impossible to reach out to.

[mrp]

So the dealer has provided a full rebate.

 

The idea is to buy a tool called reamer and have local servicemen widen the holes in the pink plastic pivots, except perhaps for the topmost keys. The damaged black keys might need to get polished.

 

I've found a German manufacturer that supplies two types - a conical and a straight one. The conical comes in sub-mm custom sizes, the straight comes in +- 1mm only.

 

Any suggestions on the size and the shape of the reamer head please? I thought 2.5 mm. straight, despite the seller having recommended conical.

 

 

 

 

 

Of note: these pivots are listed as available here

https://www.midistore.com/collections/fatar-studiologic/products/fatar-pink-key-pivots

but no answer to emails so far.

 

Since Fatar moved over to Tunisia they've stopped supplying separate parts altogether. They recommend we buy a new TP40L assembly even when in need of a small part. I've googled if the practice might have been prohibited, but this is apparently just called "bad business". I can only hope Kurzweil and Nord would step in any time soon.

 

This means the servicemen should be extremely careful with the pivots not to let them crack when reaming.

 

Any input is appreciated.

[mrp]

Interesting point:

https://www.norduserforum.com/nord-stage-forum-f3/key-pivot-broken-in-nord-stage-ex88-t7564.html

I'd better be super careful taking off the keys in order to not break the pivots.

The drill chuck upon the rod proposal is radical though.

I think the rod should come off with all the pivots once all 88 keys are taken off, or shouldn't it?

The plan is to then apply a 2.5 mm. mechanical reamer to the inner diameter of each and every pivot.

Optionally, to also soak the springs in diluted acid to make them less stiff.

[mrp]

I stand corrected. It must be more complicated than pivots only. The stiffer keys make a markedly lower-pitched thud than the lighter more precise feeling keys.

The whole geometry of the assembly and the very hammer travel might be compromised due to poor tolerances and cheap metal alloy used at Fatar Tunisia.

[JDBlackhawk]

Still following these posts-referring to buying a replacement keybed assembly? I have read on other user groups-this is pretty much impossible-that Fatar or any other music distributors are not selling the key assemblies to us as "end users"? Here's another surprise-I recently purchased an excellent condition Korg SP-500 digital piano with some surprisingly nice features and a handful of usable sounds-here's the trick. This piano is identified as having the Korg "RH-2" keyboard assembly/action, and it is fairly firm, but very playable for classic and jazz. It has a noticeably heavier key action than my weighted Fusions but definitely playable-I can do 2 finger fast repeated notes on one key pretty comfortably, has a good shallow or deep response and quick return, also being mindful of my carpal tunnel-I have to be careful with these digitals.

 

Guess what it really is-a Fatar TP40-I know as I've disassembled all of these 88 key monsters. And...this one is graded, the Fusions are not. The Fusion TP-40-I've taken one apart again after my first post-definitely an Italian label in there on the metal frame-but then this was from 2005. What a mess, but if anyone can direct me to a source for these TP Fatars-I have done everything possible to compensate for the the velocity discrepancy in the one and have only gotten it  so far as to have a roughly 5-10 step difference in velocity response between the black and white keys, a slight improvement over the original 20-25 step difference which is still maddening. I have hesitated to buy any others due to this seeming lack of consistency with Fatar-and that these same keybed assemblies in some variation are in Nords, Kurzweils, Dexibells and who knows who else.

[JDBlackhawk]

Anyone interested-finally solved the black/white key discrepancy, it was not easy-I know of the software solution using a midi loop and computer to change velocities but I solved this on the hardware level so I would not need to be permanently tethered to a computer just to balance a physical defect.

 

I've detailed this mod at www.alesismusic.com-it involved discovering sets of fatar springs originally used in the TP-20 key assembly which I ordered and installed under every single black key only, from Syntaur who had these springs, which are a shorter length, stiffer than my old kludged springs. The reverse-engineering part of this-after sussing out geometrically why this defect existed-studying the physical profile of a Fatar TP-40 that had 2 different hammers for a balanced Fatar-I had to alter the "apparent" throw length of the black key by adding tiny shims under the 2 prongs that hit the rubber contacts underneath. I have pictures at the Alesis group showing this-the shim is less than 1mm thick-I had to experiment to get this just right and finally a balanced defective Fatar TP-40 from 2005.

 

Only drawback-the black keys are a little stiffer to play than before but playing the keys before and after I did the mod-I discovered I leaned harder into the black keys anyway with all my weighted keyboards-I'm thinking it might be a natural compensation in my technique for reasons i still don't quite understand-the added stiffness in the black keys doesn't seem to alter my playing technique at all on this.  I'll leave that open for discussion-I am classically trained, balance is everything for proper execution-am playing the same pieces on the old balanced RH-2 as on this one now-i don't seem to have to alter my technique, very odd and not what I expected.

 

I had to do both mods-the springs or shims alone did not work. Only doing both-the shims effectively reduced the key's "momentum" since it had a shorter distance to travel. I thought this would make it worse-increase the apparent audible velocity but it did the opposite, was the real "aha" moment-I had also tried reducing the length of the 2 prongs underneath the key-this increased the velocity and how i realized what would finally work. A thicker or thinner shim-has to be just this size to work. It was a bear gluing tiny shims under each black key, I used pro grade cyanoacrylate not the cheaper dollar store type brands. it was a nightmare-do not attempt this unless you have an extremely steady hand and really good eyeballs-and be very careful with the cyano-the pro grade stuff is vicious and will stick to a billiard ball-I glued my fingers together by mistake more than once and i was careful as even i tiny drop of this is enough. I used the shaved end of a wooden matchstick to apply it just right, and tweezers. And fingers, but not intentionally.....whew. I keep some nail polish remover around as cleaner and to unglue my fingers just in case, but don't get that on any plastic, you will be sorry.

 

The payoff was worth it-going from a keyboard that was unplayable, to one that I now can execute whatever piano work I am capable of.  But now I have an extra intact TP-20 key assembly (was going to swap it in) from an old QS8 with a dead mainboard. Thinking of installing this in some other possibly custom-built controller-looked at the options available but will involve extensive arduino development, a possibly equally costly and involved Doepfer solution for parts that "might" work-or finding some other cheap keyboard that uses the same connectors as the Fatar TP-20-surprising how difficult it is to find disassembled keyboards that show internal connections that might be compatible, and i have looked.  I am open to any suggestions, as i hate to leave this QS-8 completely useless or caanabalize it for parts. T, I've checked all the usual parts suppliers, alesis gave up on these a long time ago and others such as Syntaur, -Pac-Parts, Keyboard Kountry etc.-there are no mainboard replacements or repairs for the QS8's, at least so far in 2023. I will post pics of the cable connectors if anyone is interested.