Suggestion for gear upgrading

[Niccolo]

Hi,

I would like to ask for advice regarding an upgrade of my current gear.

First of all, I'd like to specify that my main activity is playing gigs live, I am not into music production.

I currently have a digital piano (Yamaha P45) and a master keyboard 88 keys (M-Audio Keystation MkII) connected to a Macbook pro with MainStage, through a Focusrite 4i4 2nd gen. which is used also to send the signal to the mixer.

I essentially play rock music in a band so I play acoustic or electric piano parts, pads and organs.

Now, this gear would be OK and still is, but I would like to improve some aspects:

- portability: the P45 is 11,5 kg and the M-Audio around 7 kg. I know it's not so much, but carrying around the two keyboards plus all the other equipment very frequently is not so healthy for my back! Have you any suggestion for a digital pianos (or master keyboard with hammer action keys) lighter than that?

- physical controls: both the P45 and the M-Audio lack knobs, faders, tabs that during live gigs it's useful to have at hand to change volumes, effects, patches, rather than do it directly in MainStage. Have you any suggestions for a good 88/61 keys master keyboard to substitute the M-Audio Keystation that features such controls?

Unfortunately I can't dispose of a huge budget, so I have to make my choices considering the best quality/price ratio. I can reach a total amount of max 6-700 euros for a couple of keyboards (3-400 euros each).

Any advice will be useful!

Thank you in advance

Niccolò

[stoken6]

Welcome to the forum.

 

acoustic or electric piano parts, pads and organs.

I'm in line with your thinking - I would recommend keeping the Yamaha P45 to play pianos, and replacing the M-Audio with a sprung-action 61-key board with faders/knobs and other controls (and an expression pedal input!) to play organ. Roland A800Pro is popular among some players, and is a solid choice at about 300.

 

If the P45 is too heavy, consider selling it and buying the 73-key Yamaha P121 (10kg) at about 500. I would also suggest a rolling cart/trolley if your back is suffering.

 

Regards, Mike.

[Stokely]

My rock-and-roller cart is one of the best gear purchases I ever made. I only regret not having it years earlier. At first I mainly used it for longer hauls but after a while, even short ones made sense (unless they were over grass or lots of stairs) since I could get everything in one trip. The cart itself is not light but I only need to get it from the back of the car to the ground.

 

I'm not sure you can get much lighter than the boards you own unless you want something a lot smaller and without weighted keys. The biggest issue I have with big digital pianos is not the weight as much as they are awkward, so the cart really helps there. If you get the cart, make sure you get a model that can extend far enough for your longest keyboard obviously.

[AnotherScott]

If the P45 is too heavy, consider selling it and buying the 73-key Yamaha P121 (10kg) at about 500.

Or if 88 keys is a must, the Casio CDP-S100/150 is 10.5 kg.

 

To get lighter than that, as Stokely said, you'd have to look at non-hammer actions, like something in the Numa Compact series or the forthcoming Korg L1.

 

The cheapest way to get your knobs and faders for the second board is to add something like a Korg NanoKontrol.

[RABid]

Things to ask yourself....

 

Do I really need two keyboards or can I get by with splits?

 

Do I need a hammer action 88 or will 76 weighted do?

 

What happens if the computer goes down? Do I have enough sounds onboard to get through the night?

 

Do I really need the computer for what we are playing?

 

 

I personally like having two keyboards because I've had one go out before. I've also had my amp go out in the middle of a very important gig so backup and redundancy are important to me. I can easily get by with basic sounds. If I were gigging again I would probably keep a set of DJ headphones in the case for backup in case my amp went out again.

[Biggles]

Deja Vu

 

Checkout these:-

 

Studiologic Stage

 

Studiologic Compact x2 (this has semi weighted keys)

 

Casio PX S1000 / 3000

 

Kursweil SP6

 

Why not get a workstation and have the best of all worlds in just one keyboard?

 

Roland Juno DS workstation with 88 keys

 

Korg Kross 2 88

 

Roland FA 08

 

Although with some of the above you will be limited to used models to stay within budget.

 

Considerably over budget but a stage digital piano would bring in:-

 

Roland RD88

 

Kawai MP7SE

 

If you look at these two will give you a standard to work back from.

[Niccolo]

Thank you all for the useful suggestions!

I will definitely keep the P45, I have discovered it's not among the heaviest digital pianos and I cannot give up the hammer action keys.

The rock-and-roller cart is really a good idea! I will surely take it in consideration.

I need two keyboards, even splitting a 88 keys in two, I have not enough space for the virtual instruments I have to play in some songs.

I know that if my MacBook goes down I am doomed... The other choice would be a workstation, I've seen some today at a store. It's a different philosophy, I'll take into consideration that too.

 

In the meantime, I will probably buy a 88 or 61 Master Keyboard with knobs and faders to replace/back up the M-Audio.

I've seen some of them today:

Arturia keylab 88 essential: good keybed (keys are a bit smaller than piano but semi-weighted), robust knobs and faders.

Akai professional MPK 261: overall good impression - keys are semi-weighted, lots of physical controls

Novation impulse 61: good but not as the other two (didn't like the feel of keys, they seemed a bit springy)

 

Any of you own or have tried one of these three keyboards?

[ProfD]

Akai professional MPK 261: overall good impression - keys are semi-weighted, lots of physical controls

This is the MIDI controller I would buy especially considering the existing setup (P45 and laptop).

[Biggles]

The Arturia Essential is not a good choice imo, build quality is questionable and the keybed is a budget item.

 

Coupled with being tied in to Arturia keeping it working would definitely put me off.

 

It did, I sold mine.

[Groove On]

In the meantime, I will probably buy a 88 or 61 Master Keyboard with knobs and faders to replace/back up the M-Audio.

What about the Roland VR-09 combo organ? It's 12 lbs and has well-rounded collection of sounds as backup if the MainStage computer goes down. You might even be able to ditch the laptop completely with a P45 + VR-09 setup.

 

http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2013/05/13/v-combo-vr-09-made-for-live-playing/

[GianfrixMG]

In the meantime, I will probably buy a 88 or 61 Master Keyboard with knobs and faders to replace/back up the M-Audio.

I've seen some of them today:

Arturia keylab 88 essential: good keybed (keys are a bit smaller than piano but semi-weighted), robust knobs and faders.

Akai professional MPK 261: overall good impression - keys are semi-weighted, lots of physical controls

Novation impulse 61: good but not as the other two (didn't like the feel of keys, they seemed a bit springy)

 

Any of you own or have tried one of these three keyboards?

AFAIK semiweighted keys are always going to be a bit shorter than piano keys (typically 14 cm / 5.5 inches). The KeyLab 88 Essential has been compared to the M-Audio Keystation 88 in terms of key feel.

I'd recommend you the Numa Compact 2 or 2x. I had the NC2 and the keys feel good, albeit they are not hinged too far and may be harder to play on top; build quality is not exceptional though (feels a little bit cheap but still quite solid). A big plus is the presence of an internal audio interface (so one less thing to carry around!) and some good internal sounds. The NC2x costs a bit more but has sliders and more sound engines. The other knobs (except volume and eq) can also send MIDI to the PC on both of the versions.

 

Also check this video out, where they compare the KeyLab 88 Essential to the Numa Compact 2

[AnotherScott]

AFAIK semiweighted keys are always going to be a bit shorter than piano keys (typically 14 cm / 5.5 inches).

That's one of the nice things about the Fatar TP8 (e.g. Kurzweil Artis 7), the semi-weighted keys are full-length, the same 5.75" or so you'd see on a hammer action board.

[Niccolo]

GianfrixMG thank you very much for the suggestion. The Numa Compact 2 is very very nice! The 2+ is a bit over my budget limit, but the NC2 could be an interesting solution. Do you know if the commands (knobs, joysticks and buttons) can be mapped in a DAW (i.e. MainStage)?

[GianfrixMG]

AFAIK semiweighted keys are always going to be a bit shorter than piano keys (typically 14 cm / 5.5 inches).

That's one of the nice things about the Fatar TP8 (e.g. Kurzweil Artis 7), the semi-weighted keys are full-length, the same 5.75" or so you'd see on a hammer action board.

If I'm not wrong they are a tad shorter than standard piano keys, but they have a longer pivot than the TP9, so I guess they are more even front to back. Unfortunately there are no budget keyboards equipped with that keybed!

[GianfrixMG]

GianfrixMG thank you very much for the suggestion. The Numa Compact 2 is very very nice! The 2+ is a bit over my budget limit, but the NC2 could be an interesting solution. Do you know if the commands (knobs, joysticks and buttons) can be mapped in a DAW (i.e. MainStage)?

Most of them does. Check the MIDI implementation chart out. I didn't try it personally but AFAIK the FX1, FX2, and Reverb knobs and Select buttons all send MIDI.

Of course the joysticks both send MIDI, but the first one sends the same CC value for pitch on both axis. If I ended up keeping it, a mod I always wanted to try was to make one of the axis send a different CC value (e.g. modulation) just like the SL88 Studio does. I tried both keyboards and I can tell you the joysticks are identical for both of the keyboards. You can see in

that the joystick's PCB is connected via wires to the main PCB. If the CC conversion is handled externally it may be possible to place something like an Arduino in the middle and try to achieve this goal.

[AnotherScott]

The TP8 keys ("piano" version as in the Artis 7, not the "O" version in clonewheels) are longer than the TP9 (piano version) in the Numa Compacts. And yes, the TP8 (whichever version) is more even in front-to-back response than TP9.

[Niccolo]

Thanks again GianfrixMG. I'll check the chart and video you mentioned.

[Niccolo]

Concerning the Numa Compact 2, I noticed it has internal speakers. Is there a way to exclude them when the piano is connected to an audio interface or mixer/speakers?

Thanks

[KuruPrionz]

Concerning the Numa Compact 2, I noticed it has internal speakers. Is there a way to exclude them when the piano is connected to an audio interface or mixer/speakers?

Thanks

 

Just guessing but you could always try plugging in some headphones. You don't have to wear them.

[Niccolo]

Concerning the Numa Compact 2, I noticed it has internal speakers. Is there a way to exclude them when the piano is connected to an audio interface or mixer/speakers?

Thanks

 

Just guessing but you could always try plugging in some headphones. You don't have to wear them.

 

Yes, that makes sense! Thank you!

[HSS]

Concerning the Numa Compact 2, I noticed it has internal speakers. Is there a way to exclude them when the piano is connected to an audio interface or mixer/speakers?

Thanks

Yes. If you don't want to plug headphones in, page 6 in the NC2x's Global Edit menu has an option for turning internal speakers on or off.

[Niccolo]

Concerning the Numa Compact 2, I noticed it has internal speakers. Is there a way to exclude them when the piano is connected to an audio interface or mixer/speakers?

Thanks

Yes. If you don't want to plug headphones in, page 6 in the NC2x's Global Edit menu has an option for turning internal speakers on or off.

 

Good point! I didn't check the manual. Thank you

[HSS]

Concerning the Numa Compact 2, I noticed it has internal speakers. Is there a way to exclude them when the piano is connected to an audio interface or mixer/speakers?

Thanks

Yes. If you don't want to plug headphones in, page 6 in the NC2x's Global Edit menu has an option for turning internal speakers on or off.

 

Good point! I didn't check the manual. Thank you

IMHO the manual could be a little more clear on this issue. I just checked my NC2x and on page 6 in Global Edit there are three options for the onboard speakers: "Auto", "Aux", and "Off".

 

"Auto" has the onboard speakers on unless headphones are plugged into the headphone /aux output, in which case the speakers turn off.

 

"Aux" keeps the onboard speakers on and lets you use the headphone /aux output as an extra output along with the right and left outputs.

 

"Off" turns the onboard speakers off while keeping all of the outputs active.

[Biggles]

They seem to have the TP9 action not the TP8

 

From the manual

 

The Numa Compact 2 offers the latest innovative technology by Fatar: the sophisticated weighted keyboard TP9-Piano with Aftertouch. The Numa Compact weighs just 7,1 kg and is therefore very portable, yet it offers a great keyboard touch, for which Fatar is famous.

 

From the website

 

88 Keys,

TP/9 PIANO semi-weighted Action

Dual switch detection system

Aftertouch