Roland A800 MIDI controller issues.

[Biggles]

On my PC I have the latest version of Cakewalk and Abelton Live Lite 10.

 

On our Mac there is Garage Band and Main Stage all of which are the latest versions.

 

On my iPad I have a host of many music apps including Garage Band and again all up to date.

 

I had an Arturia Keylab Essential that worked great with all the above, but sold it as the keybed is pretty rubbish.

 

So I bought a Roland A800 wanting a reasonable feel to the keybed and I am now frustrated as the damn thing is not working with anything.

 

PC is running up to date W10 and I downloaded and installed the latest Driver and Ableton Live control Map.

 

MAC is up to date and again latest drivers and control map installed.

 

I have tried the A800 both powered via USB and using the correct Roland power supply.

 

I literary do not know where to turn next.

 

Any ideas?

[Reezekeys]

"not working with anything" is a little vague. No midi from anything (notes and controllers) coming in at all? Have you connected a midi monitor app to check this? Do you have a hardware sound module you can connect with a 5-pin midi cable to see if that works, or tried the 5-pin midi connection to your computer instead of USB?

 

Does the LCD display change when you play notes, move sliders/pots/etc.? It should display bars representing velocity when notes are played, or controller values when they're moved. Just trying to rule out a DOA unit. You mention having both a PC and MAC and if it's not working with either, ruling out a bad A800 would be my first priority.

 

What follows is MAC-specific, since I don't use a PC:

 

A mistake I made: if using USB midi, you can't simply install the driver and start working. You must go to Audio Midi Setup and follow the instructions to make the connections needed. I'm not sure if this applies to using the A800 in class-compliant mode. The driver files include an html file with instructions.

 

Speaking of that, there are two modes of midi operation, class-compliant and "use advanced driver", you select that in the A800 in the "USB SETTING." The midi inputs & outputs will appear differently in your software depending on how this is set (and of course the Roland driver must be properly installed and ins/outs wired up in AMS to use the "advanced" driver). [EDIT, to add: changing the driver in USB SETTING requires a power cycle to take effect].

 

 

[Biggles]

Many thanks for you response.

 

I have not tried any MIDI monitor Apps.

 

All controls of the A800 show a result in the onboard LCD screen.

 

I am using USB connections not the 5 pin MIDI, the USB connections worked great with the Arturia controller and I do not have a adaptor box for connecting via the 5 pin connectors on the A800 to PC, MAC or iPad.

 

It is getting the A800 working with the iPad that is the most important to me, connecting the USB output of the A800 to the Apple Camera Connection unit and then plugging that into my iPad does not work with any App even though I am powering the A800 with a genuine Roland Power Supply.

 

Using the Audio MIDI Setup on the iMAC does not show the A800, rescanning does not show the A800, so I manually created the five setup elements and the links but still it does not show anything.

 

I did find a warning online that updating the OS should be withheld until Roland release an updated driver, so this may be the issue with the MAC since it is already updated to the latest OS.

 

Win 10 PC still is an issue yet to be resolved.

 

I will contact the company I bought the unit from Monday morning.

[Reezekeys]

It is getting the A800 working with the iPad that is the most important to me, connecting the USB output of the A800 to the Apple Camera Connection unit and then plugging that into my iPad does not work with any App even though I am powering the A800 with a genuine Roland Power Supply.

As I mentioned, the A800 has it's own driver but can also work as a "class-compliant" device. It has to be set as CC in order to work with an iOS device, so "use advanced driver" has to be OFF. Details are here: https://rolandus.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013222592-A-300Pro-A-500Pro-A-800Pro-Connecting-to-an-iOS-Device

 

Using the Audio MIDI Setup on the iMAC does not show the A800, rescanning does not show the A800, so I manually created the five setup elements and the links but still it does not show anything.

I'm pretty sure the setup instructions have you do a manual setup. Can't confirm what happens doing a scan as I use my home A800 with 5-pin midi. (Yes I have two A800s!).

 

I did find a warning online that updating the OS should be withheld until Roland release an updated driver, so this may be the issue with the MAC since it is already updated to the latest OS.

I just checked and the USA Roland site has a driver for Catalina now: https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/a-800pro/updates_drivers/561a765a-cbb5-47a3-9da4-9256abce93ca/. If you don't have this installed, that would explain your situation, although your A800 should still be seen when "use advanced driver" is OFF.

 

Below is what my Audio Midi Setup window looks like. The first A-PRO icon at top is for the "class compliant" driver, the one next to it is for the "advanced" driver that's installed with Roland's files. They're both dimmed because the A800 is not connected via USB. If I connect it, and "use advanced driver" is OFF, the left one should highlight. If it's ON, the right one should.

 

[Biggles]

Job done.

 

Made the adjustments to the A800 and the Apps in iPad now works with the A800.

 

Plugged the A800 into the iMAC and opened the Audio MIDI Setup Window and it showed a similar layout to the image but no links so I created the links and now both Garage Band and Main Stage work with the A800.

 

Very many thanks for you precise and very informative advice, please accept a long distance pat on your back and my sincere thanks.

[Reezekeys]

Glad you got it sorted! Nobody wants to deal with a dead keyboard right out of the box.

 

BTW I am looking forward to a May UK tour with the band that pays my bills, unfortunately no stops in your neighborhood.

 

Enjoy the A800. I got my first one almost eight years ago. After replacing the USB jack a few times I retired it to my house and 2½ years ago got a second one I keep in my garage to take on the road. If your USB jack does not grip the cable tightly and there's stress at that point from the cable moving at all â even small movements from normal playing on a less-than-rigid stand, the USB jack might eventually fail from being flexed, like mine did. My second A800 does not have this issue â the cable is gripped tightly and I haven't had a problem, so maybe they recognized the issue and fixed it.

[Biggles]

What Band is that if you do jot mind me asking?

 

How can you tour the UK and not be in my area?

 

Both Liverpool and Manchester are only 45 minutes away, I used to commute daily to both on various jobs I had.

[Reezekeys]

I play with the Average White Band. I looked at our routing and it really doesn't seem to stop anywhere near your area, unfortunately! The closest gig looks to be in Newcastle. We have a few gigs in Scotland before we get to England, and finish up in the Netherlands.

 

Near you, in years past we have played at a place called the Picturedrome in Holmfirth which I really enjoyed. A small town in a beautiful area, and we stayed in a charming hotel right next to the venue.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed hoping brexit doesn't do anything to the current plans... my daughter is in a expensive college!!

 

Here is our itinerary: https://www.averagewhiteband.com/tour

[ChazKeys]

Quick question - I"m thinking of getting the A800 Pro and it"s not clear from the manual if it can be used without a computer. Can I use this as a 2nd manual with my Electro just using the MIDI out? But at the same time by using a split play an ipad synth using CCK?

[Reezekeys]

Yes you can use it without a computer, and the A800 can send midi from its 5-pin output and USB at the same time. So your scenario should work, with a few potentially big caveats:

 

- There is a separate "keyboard" panel window in the A-Pro editor app where you program the split point, midi channels, transpositions and key ranges of each side of the split along with other parameters. The A-Pro editor runs on your computer - you must use the computer software to set these parameters, they can't be set from the A800 Pro's front panel! As you might expect, the keyboard remembers the settings, so no need to take the computer to the gig.

 

- There's only one split point, i.e., it's a global parameter. No separate patch/memory locations where you can program different split points and switch between them on the fly during a gig. Did I mention the software to set this up (along with "Dual" mode) is confusing as hell?

 

I never use the split/dual function on my A800 but coincidentally just got the CCK today and was messing with a piano on my iPhone when I saw your thread. I was in a good spot to verify this info for you. The A800's USB output is going to the CCK and 5-pin midi going to my MOTU midi interface. I set up a split point and it's all working fine. HTH

 

[edit to add]: Each side of the split can be set to different midi channels, which is how you'll need to work it since all notes are sent out both the USB and 5-pin midi output (i.e., you can't send the lower half to the USB midi and upper half to 5-pin midi. You can, however, define a range in-between the upper & lower portions where no notes are sent, if that helps!). This all means you must set appropriate midi receive channels in the instruments you're controlling.

[stoken6]

No Ronnie Scott's dates this year Rob? (Guildford is the wrong side of the river, unfortunately...)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ChazKeys]

Yes you can use it without a computer, and the A800 can send midi from its 5-pin output and USB at the same time. So your scenario should work, with a few potentially big caveats:

 

- There is a separate "keyboard" panel window in the A-Pro editor app where you program the split point, midi channels, transpositions and key ranges of each side of the split along with other parameters. The A-Pro editor runs on your computer - you must use the computer software to set these parameters, they can't be set from the A800 Pro's front panel! As you might expect, the keyboard remembers the settings, so no need to take the computer to the gig.

 

- There's only one split point, i.e., it's a global parameter. No separate patch/memory locations where you can program different split points and switch between them on the fly during a gig. Did I mention the software to set this up (along with "Dual" mode) is confusing as hell?

 

I never use the split/dual function on my A800 but coincidentally just got the CCK today and was messing with a piano on my iPhone when I saw your thread. I was in a good spot to verify this info for you. The A800's USB output is going to the CCK and 5-pin midi going to my MOTU midi interface. I set up a split point and it's all working fine. HTH

 

[edit to add]: Each side of the split can be set to different midi channels, which is how you'll need to work it since all notes are sent out both the USB and 5-pin midi output (i.e., you can't send the lower half to the USB midi and upper half to 5-pin midi. You can, however, define a range in-between the upper & lower portions where no notes are sent, if that helps!). This all means you must set appropriate midi receive channels in the instruments you're controlling.

 

Thanks for the info. I will be using separate MIDI channels so it should work for me. It's good to have the option of playing the Nord as well the iPad apps. Not being able to store splits isn't good - I'll have to see if there is a workaround. Are you able to power it from your iPad?

[Reezekeys]

Thanks for the info. I will be using separate MIDI channels so it should work for me. It's good to have the option of playing the Nord as well the iPad apps. Not being able to store splits isn't good - I'll have to see if there is a workaround. Are you able to power it from your iPad?

I have three i-devices: an old iPhone SE (original), an even older iPad Air 2, and an iPhone SE (2020). The former two have headphone jacks, the newer SE doesn't. I'm going to spend some time with all these guys to see what's possible! At this point I have not tried powering the A800 from any of the devices with the Apple CCK. I did try with a clone CCK I just returned, it was a no-go; the keyboard powered up and seemed to work for a minute, then started power cycling.

 

With the headphone-jack-less SE2020, I connected the CCK to a USB hub, then connected both the A800 and my MOTU MicroBook IIc audio interface and it worked like a champ â with both the keyboard and interface powered by their AC adapter cubes. I have the iPad 11-watt Apple cube and will give it a shot to see what it can do. Right now I'm thinking that in a gigging situation, for peace of mind I would probably bring the adapters.

[Reezekeys]

No Ronnie Scott's dates this year Rob? (Guildford is the wrong side of the river, unfortunately...)

None as of right now I'm afraid. Funny you should mention Ronnies as I just got a message this morning from my good buddy, sax player Bill Evans, that his Ronnies dates with Robben Ford at the end of June were cancelled. Is the UK slowing down on its reopening?

AWB usually plays Ronnies every other year, so we're definitely overdue now! Especially since our November tour doesn't include any other London date. I wouldn't be surprised if we got in there at some point this year, but my bet is that it'll be 2022. Too bad â Ronnies has been the most enjoyable AWB gig for me, by far! Two weeks in London, usually in the summer, in a fantastic hotel that's a 10 minute walk from Soho and the club. I miss it!

 

[edit - not to mention one of the best, most enthusiastic audiences we ever see!]

[Reezekeys]

Are you able to power it from your iPad?

Yes it looks like that works. Running off the phone"s battery, the CCK is now powering the A800 through the hub with no issues, at least so far - that"s pretty impressive to me. I"m still powering the MOTU interface with its wall wart though. Later today I"ll try using my iPad Air 2 with the CCK (no hub & MOTU) with no external power and let you know how that works.

[philtre71]

Are you able to power it from your iPad?

Yes it looks like that works. Running off the phone"s battery, the CCK is now powering the A800 through the hub with no issues, at least so far - that"s pretty impressive to me. I"m still powering the MOTU interface with its wall wart though. Later today I"ll try using my iPad Air 2 with the CCK (no hub & MOTU) with no external power and let you know how that works.

 

Sounds good - glad it's working out!

[stoken6]

No Ronnie Scott's dates this year Rob? (Guildford is the wrong side of the river, unfortunately...)

None as of right now I'm afraid. Funny you should mention Ronnies as I just got a message this morning from my good buddy, sax player Bill Evans, that his Ronnies dates with Robben Ford at the end of June were cancelled. Is the UK slowing down on its reopening?

AWB usually plays Ronnies every other year, so we're definitely overdue now! Especially since our November tour doesn't include any other London date. I wouldn't be surprised if we got in there at some point this year, but my bet is that it'll be 2022. Too bad â Ronnies has been the most enjoyable AWB gig for me, by far! Two weeks in London, usually in the summer, in a fantastic hotel that's a 10 minute walk from Soho and the club. I miss it!

 

[edit - not to mention one of the best, most enthusiastic audiences we ever see!]

The UK is a bit up and down at the moment - we've just relaxed restrictions by one notch, just as the Indian Covid variant threatens to take hold here and jeopardise our continued de-restriction. It's possible that with this uncertainty Ronnie Scott's decided they couldn't take the risk and aren't taking bookings at the moment. Shame, I really enjoyed your gig there when I saw you with AWB.

 

I meant to add - Brexit shouldn't make any difference to you as a USAian, it only affects UK's relationship with the EU. Here comes the new border, same as the old border. The Scottish members of the band may have a less slick immigration process into the Netherlands, however...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Reezekeys]

It's possible that with this uncertainty Ronnie Scott's decided they couldn't take the risk and aren't taking bookings at the moment. Shame, I really enjoyed your gig there when I saw you with AWB.

What I heard is that they'd need to have fully sold-out houses to meet Bill & Robben's fees, and the situation with restrictions until the end of June is making them nervous, despite Bill selling out Ronnie's in the past. If you look at the schedule, it's all UK bands right now. Bill & Robben would have been the first yanks in a while, I think. Bill says they'll be re-booked for a future date.

 

I meant to add - Brexit shouldn't make any difference to you as a USAian, it only affects UK's relationship with the EU. Here comes the new border, same as the old border. The Scottish members of the band may have a less slick immigration process into the Netherlands, however...

If Brexit affects the exchange rate between the pound and US dollar, then it does make a difference â to my wallet! As far as Alan & Onnie, I believe they carry USA as well as UK passports as they've been residents here for many years. I have no idea which passports they use the few times in my tenure we've been to the continent.

[Reezekeys]

Are you able to power it from your iPad?

Sadly no, not on my iPad Air 2's battery alone. With its 11 watt power cube connected to the CCK however, the A800 seems to be doing fine. I have it connected directly to the CCK. No need for a hub, since I have a headphone jack to use for audio and don't need my MOTU audio interface.

[ChazKeys]

Thanks for that. The A800 arrives today so will let you know how I get on. I've used Setlist Maker to send SysEx to the A-Pro app to 'load' keyboard splits. The Midi Preset page in Setlist Maker has a field you can use to transmit Sysex. It would be very useful if the hardware works in the same way. I'm surprised each Control Set does not include its own Keyboard Set. Oh well keeps me busy!

[Reezekeys]

You are a sysex jedi! How are you getting the apro app to "load keyboard splits"? Page 26 of the manual says "Keyboard sets cannot be stored on your computer." IOW it's data that's only created and edited in the Apro app, transmitted to the keyboard and stored there. BTW I have setlist maker too, but ever used it except to display PDFs of charts when I first joined AWB - on my phone, a discreet way to "cheat" without using a music stand on the gig!

[Reezekeys]

Just came in... (sorry for the derail but we've had a few mentions on this subject in this thread already, and I know there are some UK folks here!)

 

https://efglondonjazzfestival.org.uk/events/average-white-band-saturday-night-funk

[Biggles]

Derail away.

 

Best wishes with the Concert at the RFH in November.

 

Good to see AWB and the Pick Up The Pieces video again.

 

An all time classic track.

[ChazKeys]

You are a sysex jedi! How are you getting the apro app to "load keyboard splits"? Page 26 of the manual says "Keyboard sets cannot be stored on your computer." IOW it's data that's only created and edited in the Apro app, transmitted to the keyboard and stored there. BTW I have setlist maker too, but ever used it except to display PDFs of charts when I first joined AWB - on my phone, a discreet way to "cheat" without using a music stand on the gig!

Ha! my sysex powers are way better than my chops! The A Pro app lets you transmit the Keyboard set anywhere. It"s not looking for the keyboard so set the splits up etc then send it to my iPad. I can pick up the sysex data using Midi Wrench then cut and paste into SetList Maker. Annoyingly, SetList Maker does capture the sysex data but inserts a comma after every byte. I"ll have to email Arlo and see if he can change that. So that"s an extra step. Still it works. So when I call up a song from Setlist Maker as well as regular program changes for things like the Nord it sends the Keyboard set for that song.

 

Some of the operations and settings are a bit quirky but it"s going to work for me. The keybed seems better then the VR09 - as mentioned elsewhere Aftertouch needs a lot of pressure but I think there might be a mod. Faders are nice and close for drawbar work. Seems pretty solid considering it"s so light. Already got Control Sets for VB3m and Model D. I"ll just need to sort Neo Soul Studio 2 and I"m good to go. Final thought - it seems to be aimed more at the studio and the stage. Pity, because a bit more work on the interface and it could be cracking controller for live.

[philtre71]

Agreed - it's got quite a nice feel (though I'm spoiled at the moment by the EXCELLENT keybed of my new Argon8!) I just wish the 'dynamic pads' on the A800 could be used as midi controls - don't think they can...I don't see anything when I run it through Midiwrench.

[ChazKeys]

Agreed - it's got quite a nice feel (though I'm spoiled at the moment by the EXCELLENT keybed of my new Argon8!) I just wish the 'dynamic pads' on the A800 could be used as midi controls - don't think they can...I don't see anything when I run it through Midiwrench.

Yes the pads can be programmed. I use them for Vibrato and Percussion on the VB3m. Midiwrench listens on all ports by default so you should see the pads generating midi. Have you assigned them correctly?

[stoken6]

Just came in... (sorry for the derail but we've had a few mentions on this subject in this thread already, and I know there are some UK folks here!)

 

https://efglondonjazzfestival.org.uk/events/average-white-band-saturday-night-funk

Great venue - I've seen all sorts of concerts there, mainly classical/orchestral.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Reezekeys]

Just came in... (sorry for the derail but we've had a few mentions on this subject in this thread already, and I know there are some UK folks here!)

 

https://efglondonjazzfestival.org.uk/events/average-white-band-saturday-night-funk

Great venue - I've seen all sorts of concerts there, mainly classical/orchestral.

Yes, and my third time playing the LJF there with the band which is a real kick to me. I'm guessing definitely no Ronnies this year though - proximity clauses & all that. Two new US dates also came in today, one of them which will make â as of now â our first gig since last August â July 17, not that far away. Let's hope these variants don't get around the vaccines!

[philtre71]

Agreed - it's got quite a nice feel (though I'm spoiled at the moment by the EXCELLENT keybed of my new Argon8!) I just wish the 'dynamic pads' on the A800 could be used as midi controls - don't think they can...I don't see anything when I run it through Midiwrench.

Yes the pads can be programmed. I use them for Vibrato and Percussion on the VB3m. Midiwrench listens on all ports by default so you should see the pads generating midi. Have you assigned them correctly?

 

Yes, I can actually see them on midiwrench...don't know why I thought I couldn't. But setting them up with Galileo 2 doesn't seem to be effective - they register when I 'learn' the function but doesn't do anything to the instrument (e.g. brake on/off). But that seems to happen quite a lot with Galileo 2 running in AUM. Not a big deal - at least I know they are programmable!

[Reezekeys]

You are a sysex jedi! How are you getting the apro app to "load keyboard splits"? Page 26 of the manual says "Keyboard sets cannot be stored on your computer." IOW it's data that's only created and edited in the Apro app, transmitted to the keyboard and stored there. BTW I have setlist maker too, but ever used it except to display PDFs of charts when I first joined AWB - on my phone, a discreet way to "cheat" without using a music stand on the gig!

Ha! my sysex powers are way better than my chops! The A Pro app lets you transmit the Keyboard set anywhere. It"s not looking for the keyboard so set the splits up etc then send it to my iPad. I can pick up the sysex data using Midi Wrench then cut and paste into SetList Maker. Annoyingly, SetList Maker does capture the sysex data but inserts a comma after every byte. I"ll have to email Arlo and see if he can change that. So that"s an extra step. Still it works. So when I call up a song from Setlist Maker as well as regular program changes for things like the Nord it sends the Keyboard set for that song.

 

Some of the operations and settings are a bit quirky but it"s going to work for me. The keybed seems better then the VR09 - as mentioned elsewhere Aftertouch needs a lot of pressure but I think there might be a mod. Faders are nice and close for drawbar work. Seems pretty solid considering it"s so light. Already got Control Sets for VB3m and Model D. I"ll just need to sort Neo Soul Studio 2 and I"m good to go. Final thought - it seems to be aimed more at the studio and the stage. Pity, because a bit more work on the interface and it could be cracking controller for live.

 

I know what you're saying about live vs studio, but live is how I've used mine since I got my first of two A800s almost 9 years ago! They've been banged around airplane holds and equipment vans a long time. The USB jack was the weak point on my first A800, but my second one grips the cable much tighter. The fix for aftertouch is somewhere on youtube, I think (it's been a while). Very simple - a trimpot on the main board that I just maxxed. Unfortunately you need to disassemble the keyboard; there's quite a few screws on the bottom. Other than that annoyance, it's easy.

 

I'm quite impressed that you got the sysex strings for the keyboard sets together & pasted into set list maker â that's something up my own alley! I do all my splitting in Plogue Bidule so have never used a keyboard set in my nine years of two A800s. I notice the keyboard's LCD says "Receiving..." when it gets a sysex dump â the keyboard set does take less time than one of the performance sets but might make the keyboard non-functional for those few seconds.