Britney Spears - Pop or Porn?

[ani]

Ummmm, to use the name Britney in the same breath as Bach and Beethoven is unwarranted. Bach and Beethoven were both CREATORS of ART, with or without pay for play they were genius in their works; it was because of their greatness that they became sought after for hire.

 

Whereas Britney is a manufactured puppet with someone else pulling the strings. She is a complete BIMBO that doesn't have the common sense of a possum walking down the middle of the road during the middle of the night.

 

As far as talent, there are tons of singers that are far better than Britney. Granted, she is an entertainer, but as Lee stated, (paraphrased) she is selling something other than musical talents and virtue is of no value to her. Obviously, Brit will stop at nothing to keep her name in the spotlights; including selling sex.

 

I've defended Madonna in the past, as I've never been one for following the media much, but during the last few years (since Madonna's reentry into the music scene after motherhood) I've had a real rude awakening to Madonna's sleezy marketing tactics. Other than the fact that I can force myself to find appreciation for her diversity and performance of vocal talent, the woman has lost ALL my respect for her as even an entertainer. The last CD that I bought with Madonna on it was "Curtain Call" which has been quite some time ago; I don't even care to give her materials a second glance anymore.

 

Without the marketing team and hype behind Britney, milking her fame for all it's worth; Britney would be a lifeless, limp ragdoll all soiled, tattered, and torn laying in a ditch somewhere trying to find herself. When the labels stop making money on Britney, they'll dump her at the next stop and find some new fresh MEAT to dangle before the crowd. All the money in the world won't be able to repair the damage that is being done to the girls' emotional stability.

[Kaz]

Oh my God sweet Lord have mercy on us all...

[Duddits]

It seems that musicians often justify their criticism of pop stars by explaining that there are many better looking, more talented singers out there, and that there are insidious forces at work behind the music.

 

I'm not denying that that may be true. But for me, those are different discussions. The world is full of talented people and insidious corporate structures. But why not enjoy the lovely little pop songs that bubble up from the arguably evil machine you describe? For you (Lee, Ani, etc.), it seems like the insidious nature of the froth-music industry undermines your enjoyment of the froth, that these ancillary issues ARE the real issues.

 

I appreciate how you feel. It's like the saying "well, aside from THAT, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?" Some issues are so important to some people, that they eclipse the original subject. Obviously, if your husband is assasinated during a play, it's hard to say that it was a delightful play aside from that. Similarly, if you view B + M as powerful engines for exploiting the degredation of women for the purpose of making a buck, I can understand how you might be less inclined to embrace their ditties.

 

It's a noble position, the position of the noble musician, and I think most of my friends would agree with you. At the same time, Haagan Dasz chocolate ice cream is delicious, 52,867 calories and all, and "Toxic" and "Holiday" are also delicious, 52,867 calories of sexual exploitation and corporate greed and all. Yet sometimes a dish of Toxic ice cream and deliciously over-produced and sexually-exploitive pop music is just what you (or at least I) want.

[eh steve]

Originally posted by Mats Olsson.:

Britney Spears - Pop or Porn?

apparently both.

 

this link possibly shows britney posing nude (tasteful b&w)and discusses a rumored 40 million $ deal with playboy.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Duddits:

The world is full of talented people and insidious corporate structures. But why not enjoy the lovely little pop songs that bubble up from the arguably evil machine you describe? For you (Lee, Ani, etc.), it seems like the insidious nature of the froth-music industry undermines your enjoyment of the froth, that these ancillary issues ARE the real issues.

 

I appreciate how you feel. It's like the saying "well, aside from THAT, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?"

Exactly. But even beyond that, I seriously DON'T enjoy the froth. And I have a real disconnect, I suppose, in understanding how/why other people do. To me that stuff just SOUNDS plastic regardless whether I know anything about who made it or not. It has a really scary quality about it on a very visceral level - it's NOT entertaining or fun to me.

 

I don't mean at all that I can't appreciate pop music in general either, cuz I do very much. It's fine with me the idea that cute teenagers get up and sing dumb lyrics to simple catchy melodies. But lots of cute teenagers with talent have done that in a positive and passionate way. The publicity machine, in other words, might be contrived and manipulated but where the rubber meets the road, the music, it ain't. People like Madonna and Britney don't even seem human to me. But that, of course, is subjective.

 

Yet sometimes a dish of Toxic ice cream and deliciously over-produced and sexually-exploitive pop music is just what you (or at least I) want.

Well like I said... if you really want that, there's no arguing that. But I find nothing to be entertained about in any way, it just creeps me out. I do enjoy an ice cream now and again though. However if I went looking for a good meal and all I could find was ice cream, I probably wouldn't enjoy it for long. That's the way I feel about mainstream media these days, it's a lot of shoving empty calories and toxic crap down people's throats. I get this instinct to run away from it all, set on my back porch and enjoy a nice cup of homemade ice cream.

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

[/qb]

But even beyond that, I seriously DON'T enjoy the froth. And I have a real disconnect, I suppose, in understanding how/why other people do. To me that stuff just SOUNDS plastic regardless whether I know anything about who made it or not. It has a really scary quality about it on a very visceral level - it's NOT entertaining or fun to me.[/QB]

 

For me, it's sort of like I can enjoy something from Taco Bell once in a while, but can always tell the difference between that and a finely-prepared gourmet meal, and always prefer the latter.

[Kaz]

Isn't pop music supposed to be froth? That's what it is, I thought. Pop music is taco bell. Gourmet is some kind of high brow jazz or classical or avante garde BS.

 

The thing I think is weird about this ongoing amusing puzzle, is the notion that pop music is supposed to be some sort of healthy positive righteous message of goodness and properness. That the entertainment media and the Britneys and Madonnas should be saving the world or something. Meanwhile, Catholic priests are molesting everything in sight, and U.S. soldiers are videotaping their twisted abuse of prisoners of war. All of a sudden, Madonna and Britney seem like good clean safe fun.

 

And even more ironic, is that this obsession with knocking Madonna and Britney just continues to bolster their antics, and keeps them in the public eye, where they love to be.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

For me, it's sort of like I can enjoy something from Taco Bell once in a while, but can always tell the difference between that and a finely-prepared gourmet meal, and always prefer the latter.

Yeah I know. I can enjoy Taco Bell once in awhile too... but (not sure why this is so hard to explain) I don't think Madonna and Britney are "merely" Taco Bell. To me they're more like Monsanto or something.

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

For me, it's sort of like I can enjoy something from Taco Bell once in a while, but can always tell the difference between that and a finely-prepared gourmet meal, and always prefer the latter.

Yeah I know. I can enjoy Taco Bell once in awhile too... but (not sure why this is so hard to explain) I don't think Madonna and Britney are "merely" Taco Bell. To me they're more like Monsanto or something.

...or WalMart!

 

And zzzzzzzzz, look, I realize that discussing the impact of Madonna or Britney is small potatoes compared to, say, severe human rights abuses, terrorism, slavery, starvation, sex trafficking, despotic military dictators, etc. around the world, but you know, it's a discussion, and I do think that the points that Lee and others make are quite valid and often *overlooked*. And also important.

 

And you're right about "popular music". Much of it IS disposable. But some of it isn't. And a lot of it either affects or reflects cultural values, and that alone makes it important.

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

And even more ironic, is that this obsession with knocking Madonna and Britney just continues to bolster their antics, and keeps them in the public eye, where they love to be.

Perhaps so, but not from me. Er, not unless they read this forum, anyway!

[eh steve]

most fast food and pop suck.

 

don't buy it.

 

teach your childern well.

 

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

For me, it's sort of like I can enjoy something from Taco Bell once in a while, but can always tell the difference between that and a finely-prepared gourmet meal, and always prefer the latter.

Yeah I know. I can enjoy Taco Bell once in awhile too... but (not sure why this is so hard to explain) I don't think Madonna and Britney are "merely" Taco Bell. To me they're more like Monsanto or something.

...or WalMart!

 

And zzzzzzzzz, look, I realize that discussing the impact of Madonna or Britney is small potatoes compared to, say, severe human rights abuses, terrorism, slavery, starvation, sex trafficking, despotic military dictators, etc. around the world, but you know, it's a discussion, and I do think that the points that Lee and others make are quite valid and often *overlooked*. And also important.

 

And you're right about "popular music". Much of it IS disposable. But some of it isn't. And a lot of it either affects or reflects cultural values, and that alone makes it important.

Ken, I know it's just a discussion, and apparently, a very popular one, popular like Taco Bell . Personally, I think it's a tired discussion, and the "important" points have been made ad-infinitum, but if they must be made now, and again in the future, that's fine, I don't mind, just like I don't mind Britney.

 

I agree, some popular music seems to rise above, intentially or not (I tend to think unintentially), but I don't think you can fault the rest of pop music for being dumb and disposable. And, if Madonna and Britney have affected the cultural values in some sort of negative way more than countless others, I would say it's with these threads .

 

For a change, how about a thread on how the music of the sixties, pushed by corporate greed, created a generation of drugged out zombies?

 

Aside from all that, the thing I find much more unpleasant than "corporate plastic" music, is that the internet, while a great source of information and other amazing things and opportunities, is so often used as a childish public gossip fest, where people feel free to make incredibly rude comments about celebrities (who are people, too). Comments like the one above about Britney being in a ditch, and much worse.

[seanh_race]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Madonna, I can't get past the image and the commercialization thing. In her case I think her motivation really shows through and dominates the music, even if I just heard it and didn't know anything about her.

i don't believe this for a second. some people choose to dislike commerical art just because it's commercial.

 

i know you won't believe me, it would probably take many many pshchologists to get you to realize it, but that's ok... i won't hold it against you much.

[Lee Flier]

Wow... so now you know my own mind better than I do, and you don't even know me? LOL... that's great. So what am I thinking right now, great prophet?

 

Sorry, there's been a great deal of music I've loved over the years which has been commercially successful, therefore you're wrong. Yes there are "some people" no doubt who refuse to like anything "commercial," like certain indie rockers who think it's not cool. I am not one of those people. My musical tastes are based on my emotional reaction to the music, not how much or how little it has sold.

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by eh steve:

Originally posted by Mats Olsson.:

Britney Spears - Pop or Porn?

apparently both.

 

this link possibly shows britney posing nude (tasteful b&w)and discusses a rumored 40 million $ deal with playboy.

I don't think that's her. I could be wrong, though...

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Wow... so now you know my own mind better than I do, and you don't even know me? LOL... that's great.

The SSS people are a truly insightful bunch, and that's what makes the posts here extra special! You know what else is incredible: if I place my spoons in front of the screen while seanh_race is posting, they start bending!!!

[Kaz]

i don't believe this for a second. some people choose to dislike commerical art just because it's commercial.

 

i know you won't believe me, it would probably take many many pshchologists to get you to realize it, but that's ok... i won't hold it against you much.

While I don't agree with this specifically, I do think there is something to it. Many people seem to have an obsession with belittling that which they don't appreciate, a need to bash certain things, create controversy where there is little to none, and insult that which gives pleasure to others.