lovesinger Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Hey, jamie! How do you keep that room so clean! I may show this to my grandchildren and my 7-year-old! :D -- Music has miracle potential -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 ya its kinda hard to keep a dirty room when ur mom is a neat freak!!! so what kind of a size of a room do u reccomend to think about building in the back yard?15' x 24'? i dont know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Hey Jamie: Are you, by any chance, in a basement or subsurface room? From the pictures, looking at the windows, it almost looks like you could be... if you ARE, that's a good thing... the surrounding earth around the bulk of the room will help prevern a lot of the sound from escaping. The windows in your romm are wide, but up near the top of the walls and not very high. This is something you see fairly often in rooms that are half way underground... Thanks for the pictures. They do help give us an idea of what we're dealing with. As far as building something outside, I don't know if I agree with the $3,500 price tag, but Lovesinger's got some good suggestions regarding going to construction sites and getting their "waste" or "scrap" materials. You'll frequently find a bunch of this stuff laying around near new home building sites. Just ask the job foreman and see if they'll let you have it. 2X4's and plywood are useful... Here's a link to a DIY site that offers some info on "building a garage". Yes, building plans for smaller buildings are available on line (do a search on "building a garage" or "building a shed" for some resources), but they're going to cost you, and for right now, we need to get a really rough idea of the money and amount of work involved to see if this is a path you want to consider further, right? Anyway, take a look at that site, and see if it sounds like something you want to pursue. You probably would need to go smaller than a standard 2 car garage, but you can adjust their plans accordingly... maybe a bit smaller than a typical one car garage... if possible, using one of the room ratio sets that usicMa mentioned for the INTERIOR measurements. Don't forget, you can always call and get estimates from contractors for all or part of the job, but the more they do, the more expensive it is going to be. In any event, if you get a nice outbuilding made, it can actually ADD value to the house... a nice storage shed is a feature a lot of people would like to have on their property for doing their hobbies, crafts, storage for tools, a workshop, etc. This may be a "selling point" for you to use on your mom! :) [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com http://www.doityourself.com/garage/gintro.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 do you have the space for a 15 X 24 foot room? and would your mom go for something that large? Heck, a 12 X 17 X 10 would be much better than what you have to deal with now... Remember, the optimum size requires a balancing act. Use one of the sets of dimensional ratios lined out in usicMa's post, while keeping the room large enough for your needs, and small enough for affordability. [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 my room is above the surface....but what size of a room would u reccomend building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 should it just be one big room that is insulated, do u think i need like "smaller rooms" inside of it???? and do i need a concrete slab under it???i would need a floating floor also right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 hey i am just wondering....i was drawing stuff up and take a look at this==how much would this cost (not furniture or stuff, just building stuff)?? and while i am at it is this where i have to put the speakers to avoid feedback so the singer can go wherever in the room????(actually we dont have a pa system quite yet but we are saving up, we saw a crate pa system for like 399 with like 120 watts, we use my stero system that can actually get pretty loud but we cant in my old room because u cant go anywhere cause of the feedback)....so here it is!!! the hash things are walls and the blue are insulation...i saw somewhere to that that thing with the doors but i dont know if that is needed: [img]http://zipper.5u.com/outdoors.gif[/img] [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: jscoin ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovesinger Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Jamie, hope I did this right so you can see the picture below. I spent under 5 minutes on an online estimating site getting costs for a Phil's recommended dimensions of 12X17 -- 204 square feet, ceiling height probably 8' but we can start here (used "house"..they didn't have garage option or other outside room so I winged it). Being a house you can bet it's built more than what you possibly need for practice. Then too, could be a part-time live-in private space (15-year-olds still need that, right? :) ) As you can see the costs are all inclusive, so I did a Windows calulator thing of all but the unnecessaries (you don't need a plumbing, countertops and built-in appliances do ya?) and got $4,215 for materials. With labor for the necessary things all comes to $6,562. Thaat's "shake it and bake it and somebody else make it" cost -- basically Mom writes the check. If ya want to have fun with this the site is http://www.building-cost.net/ [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pc67a2fd930569517de99aec5a70c37f5/fe070e73.jpg.orig.jpg[/img] [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: lovesinger ] -- Music has miracle potential -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovesinger Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 By the way that estimate IS based on costs for Charlotte, NC. Mom - you listening? Got the checkbook ready? Your child's got a date with music destiny. (Send me a CD, OK? :) ) -- Music has miracle potential -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 how much would it cost for insulation foam and stuff like that (for the whole room)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 the picture wont work so here is the link THE LINKS DONT WORK HERE SO HERE: http://geocities.com/jscoin2000/page.html here is a page i put so i can put the picture on it...go there and then get the link from the pic to see it bigger... [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: jscoin ] [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: jscoin ] [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: jscoin ] [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: jscoin ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Building the inside of the structure is best accomplished in a manner similar to my - and John Sayer's - earlier suggestions. I don't think I'd go with foam. Compressed fiberglass board of 1 or 2" thickness is just as, if not more, effective, and costs less. Cover it with a premeable fabric like burlap or something. The main thing you'll need to add to the inside (other than acoustical TREATMENT for improving the SOUND of the room) would be mass - and you can accomplish that with the "room within the room" approach that has already been outlined... all you need is more framing lumber, drywall (and maybe Hemosote) layers. [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 so i will need to use fiberglass on the inside with like some kind of fabric?? do i really need the "room within a room" or will the little mock plan i drew up work? here is the link to it again: http://www.geocities.com/jscoin2000/outdoors.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usicMa Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Originally posted by [b]pokeefe777@msn.com[/b]: [i] Compressed fiberglass board and other common building materials are the most commonly used "building blocks" these days. Covered with fabric, it makes a excellent mid/high frequency absorber. Compressed FIberglass (Owens Corning 703 or equiv.): It can also be used in bass traps as well. Wear a mask and wear long sleve shirt and gloves when handling / installing. Limp mass vinyl barrier: Better than sheet lead, and safer too. Drywall, lumber, Hemosote, RC, neoprene, etc etc are all useful if properly used. That's the real secret! Proper room design and construction are usually NOT cheap, but beat the heck out of having to REDO it at a later date or, even worse, living with a less than ideal room when spending a little more time learning upfront, or hiring someone who knows their stuff could have saved you a lot of time, money and hassle. [/i] The "fabric" Phil is talking about is I believe meant to be a protective layer. Since you'd be using Fiberglass, which has as good, if not better absorption rate across mid-high frequencies....I think Phil is implying to buy [i]just[/i] the fiberglass like from Homedepot, and create a protective package around it, instead of purchasing a commercial solution. Fiberglass is NOT good for the lungs or body, and hence the protective measures to be taken...no joke. It is the stuff to use it seems after much research...and the reply above is actually to a question I posted. That same book I quoted ealier shows Fiberglass [b]tile[/b] (Compressed as phil mentioned above), when "SUSPENDED" has some of the best absoprtion qualities. *************** [b]Pllllease someone[/b] LMK if this is Correct: Suspended: Meaning the fiberglass has air flow between a wall/barrier, instead of being directly placed against it.....or of course being suspsended from the ceiling. ??? *************** "Ramble On" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by jscoin: [b]so i will need to use fiberglass on the inside with like some kind of fabric?? do i really need the "room within a room" or will the little mock plan i drew up work? here is the link to it again: http://www.geocities.com/jscoin2000/outdoors.gif [/b][/quote] Sorry, the link's not working for me... [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovesinger Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by jscoin: [b]the picture wont work so here is the link THE LINKS DONT WORK HERE SO HERE: http://geocities.com/jscoin2000/page.html here is a page i put so i can put the picture on it...go there and then get the link from the pic to see it bigger...[/b][/quote] js, Phil, this linked page shows the picture but there's no clickability to a bigger version. I did "save as" the image however to my hd then viewed it zoomed bigger in irfanview. Nice layout. Why do i get the feeling that 3 guitar players won't have much move-around room shoulder-to-shoulder in that 17' span? Am I off? -- Music has miracle potential -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscoin Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 i am pretty sure that my mom doesnt want anything bigger than like that, i think 12x17 would be the BIGGEST.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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