David Loving Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 In the spirit of "Play it; We'll figure out what to call it later", we played a chord change four half-steps down from the chord of base note. The "4 half steps" shows up in Cantaloupe Island where the Fm chord goes to Db. So is it just a chord substitution for IV? If a substitution for the IV chord, it'll be 3 half steps up from the IV. It's a way cool sound and may present solo adventures, too. Anyway, the bass player and I were fooling with it at a run-through today for an upcoming gig. I thought I'd run it past the brain trust. Any other uses for this change? "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Db7 is in the key of Fmi The next chord in the progression not so much... Dmi11 Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 substitution for V? "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 If you want to listen to an old pro, a seat of the pants guy, who also studied too Fm to Db or Fm to Db 7 is hardly a substitute. It is a very common place for the F to go to, the Db According to older theory It is Im to Vi - it is not a sub... but let this old guy go on.. I dislike the over complicated manner in which music is taught. If I were you I would try to find explanations of music ( theory ) that are not over complicated. Here are a few songs that display a VI major chord in the context of a 1 minor in other words eg in key of F minor, there exists very naturally a Db major chord it can easily be a Db or a Db maj 7 or a Db dominant The root, the Db is what matters most. Fminor is 1 Gdim is 2 ( though Gm is also possible check out EWF "Can't Hide Love" where the G chord is Minor not diminished Ab or Ab + is 3 or 3rd degree Bb min or Bb major is 4 C is 5 Cm is more modal but is 5 too and Db is Flat 6 here are some cool examples [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOuI4OqJfQc [video:youtube] Just the Two of us shows the relationship between Db and C or flat 6 degree and 5th degree "Eminence" starts with a powerful F.. where F is clearly announcing itself as the king the boss.. F is Tonic, the key center. and Db is so beautifully complimenting the F. King and Queen! The common tone between Fm and the Db is F as well as a common Ab Just a powerful relationship similarly powerful as F to Bb or I to IV You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marczellm Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Can be seen as a tritone substitution of the II. Life is subtractive.Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApprenticeGary Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 When I play this tune, the three chords simply indicate modes which require some good melodies to link them. I hardly ever think of them as substitutions or think much of the extensions in the very tonal way(Especially tritone, which is almost strictly tonal concepts..). I love Michel Petrucciani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ferris Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just off the top of my head that harmonic movement is used on the Bridge to: Ain't Misbehavin' Speak Low Cheek to Cheek Willow weep for me There are more tunes but those come to mind immediately. Also the 5th & 6th bar on This Masquerade. https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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