mauriziodececco Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 With my jazz/rock band, we may have the luck of having a dedicated rehearsal space in a few month, and we are considering setting up an headphone based studio (with an electronic drum). I am looking around for which kind of setup we can build with a reduced budget. Nice to have would be the ability to have personal monitoring mixes, being able to work without and *with* a computer, an option for multitrack recording to the computer. It seems that the personal mixes are the most difficult feature to get; we are four, but we have guests or future stable musicians, so it seems safer to consider at least six stereo mixes; the traditional "aux" solution doesn't seems to scale a lot :-<, and fancy solutions like a Behringer X mixer (X18 or X32) plus a number of PM-16 raise the price very quickly ! Up to four mixes seems to be doable with QSC or Mackie small digital mixers (but needs anyway external headphone amplifiers). So, do you think individual mixes is important in rehearsal ? Any suggestion ? Nobody targeted explicitly the small budget studios ? Thanks Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I think you're on the right track. Anything with 4-6 aux sends can do the trick in conjunction with a cheap headphone amp or an IEM wired body pack. Individual mixes get to be more important with IEM's than speakers. That said, there are some options where you could do a generic mix and have each person add more of themselves, which could work. What's your budget? Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 x18 and x32 can also double as a recording rig. Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauriziodececco Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 I am not fully sure about the budget, because it the drummer budget, not mines :-> Let says between 500 and 1000 euros. Also i do not know if there will be a stable computer in the studio; in that case may be a fully software solution with a multichannel USB interface could work. Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 As Dan says, yes you are on the right track. Individual mixes are nice, but expensive. IEMs are nice, but expensive. That's the way the world works If you're going to be doing rehearsals (or "one take" recordings), than I think that -- yes -- everyone will want their own mix, especially the vocalist(s). Maybe you can get away with a single shared mix for non-singing members, maybe not. If you're doing multi-take recording (which you're not), that makes it somewhat easier. One shared mix for the backing tracks might be acceptable, followed by vocalist(s) doing their thing. IEMs are very nice, but also pricey. You can get the same job done for a fraction of the cost with a headphone amp, moderately-priced headphones and long cables. Yes, there will be cables everywhere. As far as saving money, buy used. All sorts of useful gear out there for not much money. CL is your friend. Cash is king. Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BbAltered Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 My trusty Mackie 1604 has 4 buses and 4 aux sends. I think new ones cost around $800. The least costly solution may be a computer, and an 8x8 ADDA and headphone pre-amps. You will be limited to 8 inputs, but you can get 8 separate mixes. You will need a software app that allows you to route any input to any output with level control: most DAWs will do this; the ADDA may come with software to do this; or GarageBand may have this functionality (I've never used GB so I don't know). J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier The collected works of Scott Joplin Ray Charles Genius plus Soul Charlie Parker Omnibook Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life Weather Report Mr. Gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowtraveler Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I have seen a couple of dedicated hardware solutions for multi-player, headphone-based rehearsal (including the late, lamented JamHub). The downside is that they aren't expandable, and have limited utility outside the practice room. Here's a link to Roland's offering: https://www.roland.com/global/products/hs-5/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauriziodececco Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 What about stereo vs mono mixing ? Wouldn't a stereo monitor mix be clearer in terms of instruments separation ? What people does ? Yes, i am checking the computer plus interface solution, there are nice interfaces for reasonable prices that provide 8 analog i/o plus Adat i/o, that may be a way of future proofing; of course, if a computer is available. Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I wouldn't bother with the computer if this is a working band. The last thing you want to be screwing around with at a rehearsal is trying to get your interface latency low enough while Windows Update runs. Etc, etc, blah blah blah. I friggin' hate computers (and that is my day job). They always seem to get in the way of making music. Unless you're a DJ, in which case, they make it for you. If an X18 is off the table, get a used analog mixer with enough aux sends (like a Mackie Onyx 24.4). Buy each player a set of Shure SE215s (don't even think about iPod headphones) and a belt pack like the Behringer Powerplay P1. For musicians with a SINGLE input (or subgroup), you could run that input/subgroup out from the insert point in the mixer to the Powerplay P1, and also run the master mix (in mono) to the Powerplay P1. Then each musician will be able to control the overall volume and the balance of the two sends, right on their belt pack. Wes Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Brings up some interesting questions. If you believe in the maxim of "rehearse how you intend to perform", this would be a gigging rig that is also used for rehearsals. That means you're into IEMs right away. Recording would be different. Not going to get into the mono vs. stereo debate, but -- as a stereo player -- I would definitely prefer to hear stereo which would require two auxes. Mono players (bass, vocals, etc.) probably would be happy with mono. Some guitarists play in stereo, most don't. Drummers usually like to separate out their sub track and mix separately. My two cents. Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowtraveler Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 What about stereo vs mono mixing ? Wouldn't a stereo monitor mix be clearer in terms of instruments separation? Yes, most likely. But if your budget for this system is in fact limited to 500-1000 Euros, you will have to make some compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauriziodececco Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 I found a funny solution, in the local equivalent of reverb, audiofanzine.fr. A guy sell an old stage monitoring mixing console for less than 1000 euro; plenty of aux, monitoring matrix, and so on. The problem is that is huge, do not know if my friend have room for that :-> Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveQB Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I would go for XR18 - 6 auxes so could run 6 mono mixes. Connect these to a cheap headphone amp such as P1 as suggested (I think Fisher make an equivalent which may even have an XLR input to match the XLR output of the XR18. If you want a single stereo mix the internal headphone amp can be used (I route bus 5/6 to this) and then use the other 4 as mono. The XR18 can also serve as an 18x18 USB audio interface if you want to record. Gates/Compressor/EQ on every channel, 4 FX busses, USB interface, 6 aux busses etc - no brainer Nord Stage 2EX | Nord Wave | Mainstage 3 K&M Spider Pro | JH Audio JH5 IEMs | Behringer XR18 | Radial Keylargo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 How about a fleet of Rolls pm51/pm351? They're little monitoring boxes which allow you to control your own monitoring mix vs a generic mix from the board. The pm351 supports a mic and line (e.g. singing keys player) while the pm51 only has a mic input. The clever bit is there's a box that feeds a monitoring mix to 4 of these boxes and phantom power them all. Only monitor in mono this way though. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauriziodececco Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 I have seen a couple of dedicated hardware solutions for multi-player, headphone-based rehearsal (including the late, lamented JamHub). The downside is that they aren't expandable, and have limited utility outside the practice room. Here's a link to Roland's offering: https://www.roland.com/global/products/hs-5/ Anybody actually used one of these ? It look interesting and correspond to our configuration, but i cannot find any real review, a review describing a real experience ... Thanks Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 The Roland HS-5 is the first thing I thought of when I read the thread title. Have not tried one myself, but I would have loved to had something like this and an electronic kit when I was full time. Would really be handy in hotels. There are a few reviews on Amazon. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauriziodececco Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just for info: Zoom have a new interesting product, the livetrak l-12, in the same cost range of the HS-5, that is a small digital mixer (12 tracks) with 5 monitoring/headphones out with their mixing bus, and multichannel USB interface. Seems more flexible. Never saw/tested in person. Maurizio Nord Wave 2, Nord Electro 6D 61,, Rameau upright, Hammond Pro44H Melodica. Too many Arturia, NI and AAS plugins http://www.barbogio.org/ https://barbogio.bandcamp.com/follow_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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