something to ponder, perhaps, abt this forum

[JuJu Kwan]

No one offended me and I hope I didn't offend anyone. I need to get my thoughts together before I try to explain what I was talking about.

[Larryz]

[whitefang]

No one offended me and I hope I didn't offend anyone. I need to get my thoughts together before I try to explain what I was talking about.

 

Don't worry about it TOO much. Some people get offended by the simple act of nobody responding to them in some way they EXPECTED, or if you just tease them good natured and really meaning no offense at all. Or maybe by being limited in their familiarity of vocabulary. Lemme explain that with a personal experience of mine....

 

About 35 years ago where I worked, I learned a co-worker's Father had recently died. Well, MY Dad had just died a month or so earlier, and when I saw him, I mentioned learning of HIS Dad's death and told him, "I appreciate your grief."

 

Well, NEXT thing I knew, I was flat on my back on the floor with my jaw feeling like it was hit with a hammer and that guy was standing over me holding up his fist and cussing at me! Our boss saw the whole thing and came over to see what was going on and why he hit me. and the guy said, "He said he was GLAD that my Dad died!"

 

When the boss found out what I DID say, he took the guy aside and explained things to him. The guy who hit me then came over, helped me up and apologized.

 

But far as I know JuJu, you've never posted ANYTHING that I felt could be offensive to ANYbody, so don't sweat it.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

This started as a really good post, but went in the garbage in a hurry.

 

@JuJu Kwan - I apologize if I offended you with my post; it was certainly not my intent. One point I was trying to make is that bad behavior (arguing, infighting and insulting one another) discourages many thoughtful people, and thus many women, from joining these groups. I was also trying to make the point that many women play Lead Guitar, even though we may not hear from them in this Forum.

 

To be honest, I'm tired enough of the arguing to take a break from here for a while. If can help you with any questions related to the Guitar, you can reach me via email. Once again, I apologize if I have offended you.

 

Same here JuJu! Put me down as a +1 with Winston. If anything I said offended you in any way, I apologize too! Feel free to PM me at any time...

 

As w/ Winston, I doubt she was referring to you.

[Larryz]

Thanks D!

[d halfnote]

chk PM , Lar

 

[Larryz]

Will do...

[d halfnote]

I must point out that I'm not speaking for JK but it's fairly obvious the places where this thread took a bad turn then got derailed.

 

So let's go forward w/ these 2 recent posts as we wait for JK....

 

There are plenty of women who play guitar, and some very well INDEED. They just don't seem to gravitate as much to hotshot electric lead playing, which seems to be a testosterone driven endeavor. A macho battleground, as it were, in many people's minds.

 

With respect, Eric, most of the women I'm thinking of play truly ripping lead, and love their gear no less than we do. Facebook has a number of groups devoted to, or comprised of, women Rock Guitarists. I see their posts, and hear their music in other social media, but not in Forums like this one.

 

Speaking as Devil's advocate here for a moment: Despite the overtly Freudian aspect of grasping and stroking the neck on an Electric Guitar, could it be that participating in Forums and Chat groups is the real testosterone-driven activity? When I see how some threads devolve (and I don't just mean wandering off-topic, either) I have to wonder, are women avoiding these groups because of how men behave?

 

[video:youtube]

 

I asked my wife who does not play guitar, nor any instrument. She said that she would rather be doing her hobbies than talking about them. Simple answer maybe the best.

[whitefang]

Lokair's wife does have a good point. And it might work well for her, but I've discovered concerning other "hobbies" I've had that discussing them with others who have the same "hobby" I learn other interesting aspects about them that might help make it more enjoyable for me, or other info that helps clear up some "mysteries" about them that's helpful.

 

Not everything posted by everyone in any given thread is "written in stone", and is better taken as guidelines to consider rather than any kind of "final word". By suggesting what works for THEM might be helpful to someone else. Just another alternative. That's all.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

[JuJu Kwan]

"Girls are more interested in guitar players instead of playing one".

This maybe true of the general population, but we are trying to appeal to girls/women who play guitar, and I don't believe that is true. In fact I have found at time it to be the opposite. I have never found the language offensive, and I don't believe anyone should.

I'm going to start a thread on millennials and guitar in a few days. Millennials (generation Y) are buying and playing guitars at a significantly lower rate than previous generations. Save any thoughts you may have for later.

[Winston Psmith]

"Girls are more interested in guitar players instead of playing one".

This maybe true of the general population, but we are trying to appeal to girls/women who play guitar, and I don't believe that is true. In fact I have found at time it to be the opposite. I have never found the language offensive, and I don't believe anyone should.

I'm going to start a thread on millennials and guitar in a few days. Millennials (generation Y) are buying and playing guitars at a significantly lower rate than previous generations. Save any thoughts you may have for later.

 

@JuJu Kwan - I find that quote to be offensive, (yes, I know it isn't your quote) and indicative of the kind of thought, and behavior that keep women away from these types of Forums.

 

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on why young people are moving away from the Guitar, and what Instruments, if any, are drawing them. Rock Guitar, in some form, has been around for over sixty years, a long life-span, for something that started out in large part as Dance Music for teenagers. Maybe it's reaching the end of its natural span as the dominant life-form in the Popular Music environment?

[Larryz]

"Girls are more interested in guitar players instead of playing one".

This maybe true of the general population, but we are trying to appeal to girls/women who play guitar, and I don't believe that is true. In fact I have found at time it to be the opposite. I have never found the language offensive, and I don't believe anyone should.

I'm going to start a thread on millennials and guitar in a few days. Millennials (generation Y) are buying and playing guitars at a significantly lower rate than previous generations. Save any thoughts you may have for later.

 

That quote is not too bad IMHO as it just opened up a new door and shows the problem that a bunch of old farts wanting to attract younger ladies to the forum has! I think you're 100% right and really appreciate your input JuJu. You and I have a couple of lady guitar players, we like that proves your point (i.e. Orianthi and Bonnie Raitt). Another Forum favorite is Kaki King. Her father is a member of this forum and a Proud Papa that chimes in now and then and updates us on what she is and has been up to!

 

I'm looking forward to your upcoming thread on Millennials and will hold on making any comments until it's posted. I think having younger members (regardless of gender) is very important and we need more people in your age bracket to keep us informed...You're a very important member of this forum to me and your views are very important to me as well. Please keep us in line whenever it's needed!

[d halfnote]

I'm going to start a thread on millennials and guitar in a few days. Save any thoughts you may have for later.

 

[whitefang]

Hhn.

 

Didn't mean any offense by that statement, just stating what I've observed over the years. Most women I knew over time usually just learned to play enough guitar to be able to do a few folk tunes. But truth be known( and repeated AGAIN here) it was my STEP SISTER whoe first instructed me on guitar, and who also didn't do too bad on some rock-a-billy and "folk-blues" tunes. Had a fantastic record collection too.

 

Somebody earlier said something about testosterone concerning female players, I'm not fully recollective of the manner in which it was brought up. But in regards to something like that, THIS woman can join our ranks ANYTIME she wants!

 

:https://youtu.be/JLLmOiqj-o0

 

 

Whitefang

 

 

[picker]

IIRC, we've had women show up here, stay a while, and move on, just like some guys have. I don't see any reason to make a big change to this site to accommodate anyone, especially not to salve the conscience of someone who thinks there isn't enough political correctness here.

 

This site is for guitar players in general, and as far as I can see, makes no particular effort to cater to either men or women exclusive of the other. There are a lot of guys here. Maybe that's why there are not that many gals, because gals tend to cluster with gals and guys tend to cluster with guys.

 

I don't really know what could be done to attract women guitarists, and mostly, I don't care. I can't think of anything that happens here that would discourage or offend them. We talk about guitars and music. There are no major foulmouthed comments I can think of, no disparaging remarks directed at women, guitar-playing or otherwise, and no big time pro-male topics or threads.

 

If anybody feels offended by our lack of female participation, I suggest that it may be their problem, not the board's.

[whitefang]

[A String]

It boils down to percentages. Simple as that. I've seen info showing the ratios are 9:1. So, for every nine males out there, that play, there is only one female. Then consider; of the nine males, maybe one or two would find their way here. Chances of a woman finding her way here? Quite low.

 

If you have 10 regulars, chances are you aren't going to see any women at all. If you have 100 regulars, you may get a few...

 

In the end, as was so eloquently put, we do nothing here to cater to either sex. We have had many women on this board, over the years, and I'm sure we still have the odd lurker. IMO, we don't need to change anything here. Instead, we need to encourage more women out there to pick up a guitar and start playing!

[Scott Fraser]

We have had many women on this board, over the years, and I'm sure we still have the odd lurker. IMO, we don't need to change anything here. Instead, we need to encourage more women out there to pick up a guitar and start playing!

 

Thanks, man, my new band name: The Odd Lurkers!

[d halfnote]

I thought we were done here but Picker's late arrival & comments deserve consideration, if for no reason more than his fully paid dues status in the Church of The Lowell George.

 

PMan, while I see validity in some of what you say I think there's more to be considered than, uh, "don't fix what ain't broke", if I may put it that way.

My OP came aft I mused on the fact that when I came to MPlayer c.2001 there were a multitude of female participants, from Lee Flier to the GP NYC correspondent Lisa to someone I only remember by her name Rose plus others I'm not recalling.

When I posted that I didn't realize we'd just gained JuJu Kwan, the 1st woman here for quite some time.

If you read the full (& yes, tiresome at times) thread you'll see that she quickly learned that, for some, this place is their territory, even if they don't recognize they're offending others by that presumption.

Thank goodness JK decide to stick w/us.

 

The point's not abt attracting women participants ('though why shouldn't we ? I never knew any party that wasn't improved by female presence) but it's abt the increasingly small world of these forums.

Last year we almost lost our clubhouse & not long ago the KB cats lost their print mag.

They're a much larger & active membership than us or the bass forum but the facts are (& likely will tend more in this direction b/c of the economic edge larger biz has currently compared to smaller biz & niche markets) that stuff that doesn't maintain a wide audience & generate some tangible rewards may not last.

That's why all the GP eds, etc, are over on FBook &, Twitter, etc, instead of here. They're tryna keep the whole thing going & expand it, too.

 

For all it's cultural contribution over the last 50 yrs, GP makes less money than Gtr World [also a New Bay publication] & both are offered to us at a fraction of what many gtr/music mags cost.

The MPlayer forums likewise have a fraction of the presentation material & participation of Harmony Central, just for an example.

How's that gonna continue to play over time ?

 

Complacency is not gonna do us any good, nor is the presumption that everything's OK or that anyone who wonders how things could be diff is rocking the boat.

 

 

 

[whitefang]

Well put d.

Whitefang

[picker]

I don't know how we would go about trying to attract women to join us in our time-wasting pursuits here, not without a load of reverse sexism anyway.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is actually pretty sound advice most of the time. I don't mind rocking the boat in a good cause, but so far, nobody has made any suggestions that amount to much. Did I miss something?

[d halfnote]

Maybe, since the original point wasn't how to attract any particular type of member but their absence.

Of course why/what/etc soon came up.

 

I think the actual new point is whether this is a place that can remain viable &, if so, how.

Personally, I don't think just maintaining stasis is the answer.

 

 

[d halfnote]

Is that how yer reading it ?

[A String]

Forums, as a medium for social interaction, are dying. No way around it. They are still a very viable way for customers to keep in touch with companies for help, advice etc. but IMO, most people have moved on to Twitter, Discord and even the dreaded Facebook as a way to keep in touch. Just as forums replaced BBSs, Twitter and other, quick and simple mediums are replacing forums.

 

That being said....we are here till the end!

[d halfnote]

I won't dispute what yer saying, "StringFellow", (& I know a bit abt how yer other place is having to adjust) but there are ways to maintain a more active & interactive community aren't there ?

When I look at HarmonyCentral, the home of Craig Anterton's SSS forum & an asset we once had here, here's a lot more happening.

 

Personally, I'm strategizing a backdoor approach to visit the other places MPlayer operates & try stealth marketing some interest in us little ol' pea pickers.

 

As W C Fields once said, "Anything worth having is worth cheating for."

[whitefang]

I would DREAD it if this board moved to FakeBook because it would mean that in order for me to still participate, I'd have to REJOIN it, and one problem I had with it was that my e-mail box would be cluttered with up to 60-80 e-mails a DAY notifying me that somebody on my "friend's" list posted something somewhere that always turned out to be something that wasn't really all that interesting anyway. I hope this forum stays the way it is, and WHERE it is for a good while.

Whitefang

[Winston Psmith]

I would DREAD it if this board moved to FakeBook because it would mean that in order for me to still participate, I'd have to REJOIN it, and one problem I had with it was that my e-mail box would be cluttered with up to 60-80 e-mails a DAY notifying me that somebody on my "friend's" list posted something somewhere that always turned out to be something that wasn't really all that interesting anyway. I hope this forum stays the way it is, and WHERE it is for a good while.

Whitefang

 

@Whitefang - there's a way to Turn Off notifications from FB, if you ever have to deal with that again, otherwise we'd all be getting a thousand emails a day, every time someone posted a picture of their lunch. I don't get any of that garbage in my email, and I'm on FB.

 

I've heard it's even worse if you have the bloody app on your phone!?!?!?!?!

 

A String makes a good point about demographics. If the ratio is still really 9-to-1, then we'd have to have 900 active members in the Forum, to maybe have 10 women participating. With that dearth of representation in online Forums, it's no wonder the women would rather spend their time and energy working on Music, instead of talking about it.

[d halfnote]

As far as FBook, yeah, that org's unbelievable, to me.

I get multiple notices daily that there are new messages, etc, waiting for me; friend "requests" from ppl already on my list [a particularly suspicious thing ], plus they try to claim © to everything posted there.

& they seem unresponsive to complaints abt any of that.

However, that site's still a major force in both personal & biz contact these days.

 

This forum will not move to FBook since there's already MPlayer presence there (it would just cease to exist, as it did briefly last year) but the energy that MPlayer puts into sites such as FB, Twitter, etc, grows in proportion to the lack of engagement we have w/ more modern, active patrons.

 

All respect to what Craig said above but I'd rather look to what keeps this ship afloat than play "see no, hear no" & go down Alamo style while some cats wrangle abt how things might change at their clubhouse.

[Larryz]

I've never been on FaceBook or Twitter. Maybe some day I'll get around to it...Not!

 

+1 Winston, it amazes me that people take pictures of their meals whenever they eat out and then send them to their friends! I mean what better use is there of internet communications LOL! This is probably better than sending their nude photos of themselves...now I can see sending pictures of guitars, amps and pedals LOL!