Learning Keyboard - Software

[3dog]

As I was learning Keyboard I came to this forum looking for advise but didn't find much so I am starting a thread. I have an 88 fully weighted and 3 other limited key midi controllers, several of which I can play on my lap interfaced with my IOS devices. I find that I can practice more if I am not limited to the man cave and use ear phone so I don't bother anyone while learning. I have tried private lessons in the past and have not made much progress due to time and effort. Thought I would try again as I now have some more time and this time I'm going to take an approach of using software applications. I started in Jan 2017 with UDEMY - PIANOFORALL which I got on sale for about $10 as I took other music theory classes with UDEMY. At this point I understand and can play major and minor triads and some basic chord progression having gone through the first 30 of the 260 lessons. I just discovered an app that interfaces with a midi keyboard along with the ability to listen via the iPhone or iPad mic. The SIMPLYPIANO app starts out with a concentration on reading music and has game like features. It is a subscription app and I paid @ $89 for a year as I got so much out of the demo. Going to use both approaches.

[ElmerJFudd]

Every person is different and every person has different learning goals.

 

Many people prefer to learn through collaboration - real time interaction, discussion, examples giving and sharing, immediate feedback. This type of learning is still best done between humans - a teacher and pupil or a master and apprentice - the goal being that eventually the dialogue becomes equal and the apprentice becomes the master. The issue here is the obvious need for to personalities to be compatible for the pupil to enjoy and build a desire to accomplish and please for themselves because seeing the teachers pleasure at their success becomes a driving force. If you don't have the right teacher, you try another.

 

Others prefer to learn alone. Getting information in a static format that they can watch, see, listen to and review - setting their own pace, independently. These types of learners can have success if they have discipline to set aside time, are able to repeat alone and are honest with themselves that they don't advance until success at a certain level is met. The downside is obvious - no live feedback, particularly about good technique- and the lessons only contain the information they contain, no more no less.

 

Perhaps doing the program you've found is a great start, and when you feel you are ready and can get the most out of a teacher, that's the time to begin.

 

 

[3dog]

Thanks and that sounds like it comes from a voice of experience. I am finding that the Simplypiano app does give immediate feed back as it is interfaced via midi or microphone whereas the UDEMY course is just watching video lessons. It is obviously not the same as having a live instructor but one does let you know what you are doing right or wrong. Right now I have more wrong going on. I do play Sax and Clarinet (play in a big band) and understand sight reading but Piano is another ball game.

[TommyS]

Find a good teacher.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

A really good teacher can do several things that software (or just practicing more) can not do. The primary one is to watch and listen to your playing - properly analyze various small things that you are doing wrong that are not apparent to you - and then assist you in correcting those things. Some of these unconscious actions can go beyond just limiting your playing and get to the extent of damaging you physically.

 

Admittedly, the search for such an instructor that you, as an individual can really work together with can be about as frustrating as kissing a bunch of frogs in the effort to find one that turns into a princess. But the results can be magical.

 

I used to play clarinet and sax (not enough breath now), and would bet that somewhere in your early learning experience, you had such an instructor. I played for several years before a different teacher examined my embrasure, recommended that I get a specific mouthpiece, and transported my clarinet playing to a higher level.

 

In searching for such an instructor, it is worthwhile to frankly discuss what you want to do, and the musical context that you want to be in with each potential instructor. Weeds out the frogs to some extent. Also realize that such commitment is a two-way street. If you don't follow the guidance, the best instructor in the world can't accomplish as much.

 

[3dog]

Like to hear from an instructor that also uses software.

[ElmerJFudd]

I've taught the last 25 years - all ages. I use software for drill, repetition - note and rhythm reading - pattern recognition, ear training. The computer excels at this. Also for playing along with at variable tempo, with accompaniment or just beat patterns - more exciting than a metronome. Although that's its purpose.

 

The instructor is better at inspiring, motivating, giving live immediate real time feed back and a lifetime worth of ancillary information and anecdotal experiences in line with the fact that music is an oral tradition and conversational in nature. The more you speak with others the better you get at spreading the language. YMMV

 

 

[CaptainUnderpant]

Good Software is better than a bad teacher, or an uninspiring teacher.

 

But a good teacher is priceless.

 

[RABid]

The bad thing about software only is you don't have someone observing your posture, hand placement and technique. Software can help you with what notes to play and maybe even fingering, but it will not notice if your wrist are in the wrong position and help you avoid physical problems down the line.

 

I'm not going to tell you yes or no to using software. I have followed many paths and not all work the same for everyone. I had a very good instructor for piano. I learned drums totally on my own, watching drummers on TV to see how to hold the sticks. (No internet back then.) Guitar, I learned with friends. Bass, I'm currently going through an online system.

[3dog]

[quote=RABid

 

Bass, I'm currently going through an online system.

 

What on-line program are you using for bass?

[3dog]

With all the players standing up using keyboards, keytars and the likes of Jerry Lee Lewis and now Jordan Rudess playing the CME on his head, just what is so important about posture?

[JWhllr]

just what is so important about posture?

 

Quick answer: injury prevention, articulation, touch control. Also many other things.

 

It's about how you're playing day in and day out, cos that's the playing that shapes how you sound (even when you're playing in other positions). The whole standing thing isn't a big issue, what's more important is hand/wrist/forearm alignment, weight transfer from shoulder and torso. A good teacher will spot issues in these areas in seconds, or even hear them in your playing. Getting that right here from the beginning will save hours of frustration undoing poor technique later and greatly reduce the risk of injury.

[AnalogGuy1]

FWIW, here's my story:

 

I am an adult beginner/learner. I'm also a technical personality type, and wanted to learn by online courses. I found two things very helpful during the first year: getting up early for focused daily practice, and www.PianoWithWillie.com, watched with headphones in front of my keyboard. After a year of that I found decreasing gains and that started affecting my 6AM motivation.

 

I joined a weekend band. I sucked bad, but learned fast. Nothing like having to do a solo in front of a crowed to get focused practiced time. I couldn't improvise, but I could memorize. That worked well for another year. It also gave context to some of the things I learned in Piano With Willie.

 

Then I found decreasing gains again. I was getting confused about general topics involving *how to learn* , as well as specific technical problems (e.g. could not go past playing scales in sixteenths evenly past about 80bpm). Then I found a private teacher. He was classically trained, and fixed all sorts of problems with my technique (he would probably say "improved, not fixed"). Now, although I stand when I play in my band, there's a relaxed feeling in my hand that is difficult to describe. There's still a lot I can't do (improvise a solo in front of a crowd, play my memorized solo to "Call Me the Breeze" at 178bpm) but I can play even sixteenth scales/passages at 100bpm no problem.

 

I'm just an N=1 case study, but it suggests you can learn a fair amount early on online, and that at some point a teacher becomes increasingly valuable.

[3dog]

That's the input I was looking for. I am now starting my quest for a teacher/instructor/mentor. Don't want to create any more bad habits.

[LX88]

I don't go for that "find a good teacher" approach

 

I have had plenty of teachers who were good at demonstrating their stuff but not so good at breaking it down to understandable levels

 

The internet is FULL of examples of this.

 

Since we have the internet, I would also like to find some good sources of information. Most of my time is spent learning jazz tunes and playing bass lines with them. I have thought about checking out some of Tony Monaco's online stuff , which I may do.

 

I have looked at a lot of Dave Frank's stuff and thought that there were some holes in his approach. He did a tutorial on walking bass lines on piano that I thought could have been more thorough.

 

I don't have the money to waste to see if a teacher is going to pan out.

[CaptainUnderpant]

I don't have the money to waste to see if a teacher is going to pan out.

It would have been impossible for me to evaluate a good music teacher initially. The last teacher I chose, I knew what I was looking for. I had 8 years of classical training and knew I didn't want a sight reading teacher. I had been to Musicians Institute for a brief 30 day after work program and knew I wanted this approach. I had just lost my Berklee Grad teacher to a move out of state, but knew this was the path. I had discipline and some knowledge. Just needed somebody that knew "The Path".

 

Fortunately "JazzMammal" here on the forum put me in touch with an amazing player and teacher (David Graham) that studied under the Great Jazz Improve player, Charlie Banacos.

 

I am sure others will have opinions, but my experience competing in tennis at a very high level has shown me that out of 100 teachers, maybe less than 5 are any good. Music is probably not much different.

 

The scarcity of great teachers and a lack of knowing what to look for might make finding a great teacher a less than easy task.

 

just what is so important about posture?

Quick answer: injury prevention, articulation, touch control. Also many other things.

 

It's about how you're playing day in and day out, cos that's the playing that shapes how you sound (even when you're playing in other positions). The whole standing thing isn't a big issue, what's more important is hand/wrist/forearm alignment, weight transfer from shoulder and torso. A good teacher will spot issues in these areas in seconds, or even hear them in your playing. Getting that right here from the beginning will save hours of frustration undoing poor technique later and greatly reduce the risk of injury.

Playing devils advocate, I just watched the Glenn Gould documentary "Genius Within". This guys posture was absurd he sat slumped over very low, with his hands coming up to the keybed with wrists bend down to accommodate his low seating position. What is up with that? I didn't hear in the documentary that he suffered any injuries, but then again he died at 50 maybe before he could develop any?

[3dog]

As the saying goes, there is more than one way home. We now have so many options of keyboards that my guess is that there is no single answer. As I tend to enjoy the trip more than some destinations I have been to I am enjoying making progress everyday and I don't think I will ever be playing keyboard in public. More interested in other software options and hearing how the user feels about them after using them. I looked into the Pianowithwillie and it is fairly pricey compared to the options I am trying now which were previously mentioned.