Virtual Analog - KingKORG or Novation Ultranova...?

[MikeT156]

I demo'd the King Korg a couple days ago at Sam Ash in Long Island. It does sound good and warm and vintage for sure, but I also have to agree with CEB about the build quality being somewhat sub-par. I would suggest tinkering around a bit more with your Micron, and if you really like the sound, just upgrade to a used Ion where you get 49 keys and a full array of knobs. It is essentially the same synth engine, minus the reverb, delay, and step sequencer. To this day, this remains one of the best VA engines for emulating vintage analogs. It has numerous filters specifically modeled after Moogs, Oberheims, Jupiter, ARP, and so on. But then I don't know if the vintage vibe is what you're after, or if you want a more modern EDM sound.

 

As an owner of an ION, I second the above Post. I realize that the ION is not a current offering from Korg, but you can pick a used ION up on EBay at a very fair price. Being that I have owned a number of analog synths in my lifetime, and still have an Original Prophet 5 and Arp Odyssey, the ION is a nice alternative. VA's are generally not quite as "FAT" as analog synths but you can always use a digital FX unit for Chorus and other FX to enhance the sound. The ION's FX were limited by design, but the processing power went into the sound and filters. Great choice at a used price.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

[Dave Bryce]

FWIW, I reviewed them both for HC's Expert Reviews section a while back:

 

Ultranova

 

King Korg

 

dB

[iluvchiclets]

Thank you Dave. I just read your review for the Ultranova, and I might not bad able to resist it at that price. Looking forward to reading your review for the KingKORG.

 

MikeT156 - the Micron sounds so good, I will keep watch for an Ion. I don't recall ever seeing one, but I might not have been looking properly!

[Tusker]

I love the way the King Korg sounds and think the tube preamp is well implemented. It would drive me insane to have those sorts of sounds under my fingertips with no aftertouch to modulate them.

 

Funny, you brought up the comparison between the An1X and KK. That seems so apt.

 

KK might go down as the AN1X of this decade, a really nice VA synth engine inside an underwhelming piece of hardware. (Though like you, I love the aftertouch on the An1X, which KK doesn't have. )

[Franz Schiller]

I own a King Korg, a Blofeld, and previously owned an Ion.

 

I'm frankly shocked that anybody has associated the Ion with "build quality." Mine was was awful. Half the time, most of the voices wouldn't work, it'd occasionally freeze up, and I heard similar stories from other owners.

 

Sound wise, I'm obviously a fan of the King Korg. I think it wipes the floor with the Ion, and Novation, though that's just my taste.

 

I'm ok with the keybed, but I totally get how that could drive some people crazy.

 

The case isn't perfect...my biggest peeve is how the wave selector knob is to the left of the LED screen, so by turning it, your right hand is necessarily blocking your view. It's a real head scratcher.

 

It is pretty fast to cook up some really cool sounds, though, to a point. And then you have to do some menu diving for modulations and other detailed tasks.

[Bill H.]

Yeah I'm kind of surprised that the Ion (which had wobbly knobs and self editing screens when new) would be associated with build quality too. I can only imagine what they are like now after a few years' use.

 

To the OP: You really need to play a King Korg in person before you buy in order to determine whether or not those keys will work for you. It's right on the edge of unplayable IMO. Great sounding engine though.

 

Used VA's with great build quality for a grand include Viruses (Virii?) Kb and Kc - always on my back burner wish list.

[CEB]

That was my suggestion. The OP already has 2 cheap VAs. Instead of buying a third wait until the funds are available for a used V-Synth, Virus, Lead, etc ...... Or forget VA and find a used DSI analog.

[Doerfler]

then there are some people who can play the crap out of anything

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/lbHJ1z.jpg

[iluvchiclets]

Yes, I have heard a few reports of bad Alesis encoders, knobs, etc... I have only had mine a few weeks, so far so good. Love the way it sounds!

 

Interesting what Franz Schiller wrote - that's a pretty big vote for the KK. I have played the KK a few times, the feel of the keyboard was no issue at all for me. I really loved what was coming out of the speakers too.

..I should probably stop being seduced by the lovely blue lights on the Ultranova and Mininova and just go for the Korg's 61 keys!

[iluvchiclets]

Just a quick update...

 

I did finally pickup the Novation Ultranova - I offered him a price that I thought was ridiculously low, but he agreed. It turns out I am very impressed with the sounds I can get out of it!

 

That lovely little Gaia, with it's incredible user-interface, I am now feeling I should sell it. There is so much I like about it, but compared to my Micron (and now the Ultranova) I can't help wonder why it sounds so one-dimensional? I don't know what it is...the effects are all so nice, and I love the fact I can sculpt and edit so quickly.

 

I actually set my Micron up beside the SH01 Gaia and made a fat "brass" type sound with an ASDR filter. Then I tried to recreate it on the Gaia...I can get close to the same, but there is something missing. I don't want to use the word "sizzle" because that could be interpreted as fizzy or something, but it's almost as if the high-end content is missing?

 

The Gaia sounds good but, for purely retro-sounding patches, I think the Micron sounds better. And sonically, I prefer the Ultranova as well.

 

Will still keep my eyes open for a nicely priced Kingkorg. A lot of what I hear on the internet sounds so garish and EDM-ish. It's hard to envision just how clean I could make it sound...

[marczellm]

One thing definitely "wrong" with the GAIA is that it's a VA style instrument but almost completely PCM sample based; whereas Novation, Alesis, Nord, Korg VAs all use algorithmically generated waves. I don't know how that relates to the sound quality or character.

[mate stubb]

GAIA sounded plastic to me every time I tried it out. No reason to keep it around now that you have the Ultranova.

[iluvchiclets]

Thanks you two,

 

Yes, I can't believe that such a modern synthesizer can sound kind of flat. It's a shame, really, I love the GAIA interface so much I could almost live with the sound. But I have to have some sort of discipline, otherwise I end up with 10 synths...and I can hardly play anyhow!!

 

marczellm might have the reason why it sounds different...very interesting...

[iluvchiclets]

You know what? I'm going to keep the Gaia! I was just playing it, and I get so much playing and tweaking done because of it's interface...such creative sessions I have.

 

I think I was overcome by the anti-Roland threads I have read about the SH01 (it can happen to anyone), but this Gaia can do sounds that my other boards simply cannot do. So, rather than thinking one synth is superior, I think they all sound a bit "different".

 

It's so much synthesizer for not a lot of money.

 

The way the used market is for synths, I feel like I would have to give it away. No way - too nice a keyboard. And all the knobs...man, when I MIDI-map it to Kontakt's Retro Machines, it's like no other controller!

[roygBiv]

I'm with you iluvchiclets

 

I've had a Gaia for 3-4 years. Love the interface, but some of the sounds don't seem to bite as much as some other VA synths I have, like the Micron or even my Roland SH32.

 

Several times I thought about getting rid of it. But, then I end up using on some project - in the process discovering that I don't have a good replacement for it!

 

The ability to tweak the filters and the noise oscillator in realtime, along with the effects alone is fantastic - tap tempo the beat you are playing, then start playing around with the delay and reverb - instant dub maddness.

 

So, guess we just have to deal with slightly "flat" sound - not sure that even is apparent in a live mix, I really only notice it when playing around with it by myself.

 

I do wish it wasn't white though - I'm thinking of putting some black polka dots on mine.

[iluvchiclets]

Thanks roygbiv!

 

Here's an idea for changing the Gaia:

 

 

 

[icarusi]

I tried the Ultranova when it first appeared and would have got one apart from it didn't output midi from the sequencer nor would it allow changing of voices/tones with the sequencer running, which I can do with a Krome and XW-P1. I do have an A Station module though.

 

Of the others I tried the Arturia Minibrute was memorable for the Brutefactor control, for extra filth. Also liked the 'decimator' and 'bit-crusher' fx on some Korg boards for the same reason.

 

I liked the GAIA for the self oscillating filter, to get random sounds, but I have an MC202 (simple SH101 + sequencer) and a Wasp, so can already get that stuff (mono only).

[DulceLabs.com]

I tried the Ultranova when it first appeared and would have got one apart from it didn't output midi from the sequencer

 

By sequencer you mean the arpeggiator correct? I am almost 100% sure Novation added MIDI out from the arp in a firmware update back in late 2011/early 2012. The MiniNova can do this as well (out of the box).

[roygBiv]

Hey iluvchiclets - was there supposed to be a picture attached to your post, regarding changing the Gaia?

 

dave

[iluvchiclets]

Yeah - it took me a bit to figure out how to do it!

 

I'm half thinking of doing it for fun...might increase the resale value some day? The case looks like it might be easy to remove, white stenciling on top shouldn't be too hard. It would not be road-worthy though - it would be hard to get the right semi-matt finish and have it be durable. Something fun to think about doing...

[roygBiv]

iluvchiclets - thanks! That looks super cool.

 

Dang I wished it looked like that now. Probably would even make it sound better, psychoacoustically, at least

 

Even the wooden end-caps would improve the looks some - I may have to look into this.....

 

Maybe I'll start with some black Gaffer tape I have laying around - don't want to burn my boats too soon..

 

[iluvchiclets]

Not a bad idea - try some tape first to see how the black-out goes...

 

Have you heard of "Plastidip"? It is a spray on finish that can be removed, and does not stain. Almost like a rubberized coating.

 

If you do a search for that brand name, there are people who have done their hubcaps, and some people who have done their whole car! After a little while, when you're bored of the color, you can just peel it off.

 

I think that might be worth a go here - if I can source a can of plastidip out (and dismantling the Gaia is not too much trouble) I will consider it! Perhaps the wood end caps I could mount with double-sided tape so that I can change my mind?

[roygBiv]

Great Idea - I just did a partial mock-up with black Gaffer tape - it looks very promising.

 

Regarding end caps - I've been having very good luck with using velcro tape - velcro on one side, tape on the other - they even make it in industrial versions - can even be used to hold up an iPad! would probably work pretty well here for the wooden end caps on a Gaia.

[icarusi]

I tried the Ultranova when it first appeared and would have got one apart from it didn't output midi from the sequencer

 

By sequencer you mean the arpeggiator correct? I am almost 100% sure Novation added MIDI out from the arp in a firmware update back in late 2011/early 2012. The MiniNova can do this as well (out of the box).

Did they 'fix' always locking the arp to the sound? I remember checking back 12 months later and nobody could confirm the arp midi out, so I shelved the whole idea. Both should have been implemented initially. I remember buyers searching forums for how to 'switch on' arp midi out. Seems obvious, until you tried, in fact it was only one shop I was able to confirm it didn't midi out the arp, by hooking it up to an external board. All the others were saying 'they *all* do'!

 

The Krome was out late 2012, which did midi out the arps and had the 'unlock' option on the sounds-to-arps, so it got my custom.

[synthizen2]

I'm frankly shocked that anybody has associated the Ion with "build quality." Mine was was awful. Half the time, most of the voices wouldn't work, it'd occasionally freeze up, and I heard similar stories from other owners.

 

Yeah I'm kind of surprised that the Ion (which had wobbly knobs and self editing screens when new) would be associated with build quality too. I can only imagine what they are like now after a few years' use.

 

I normally associate "build quality" with the physical sturdiness of a unit, the casing, the integrity of the knobs and controls, etc. -- not the synth's internal software.

 

As far as that goes, the Ion beats out the King Korg and the Gaia by miles. Wobbly knobs? I don't think so. These things are huge, solid, have excellent resistance, and are bolted to the front panel instead of directly attached to the underlying circuit board. They are the most solid knobs I've ever encountered on a synth. Also has a good solid steel casing. Just the red plastic end-cheeks look a little cheap and cheezy, would be nice to replace them with wood.

 

The software glitches were an issue for sure (i.e. ghost editing)... but those problems were taken care of in a software update. I'm pretty sure I have the latest update, so I don't suffer that problem.

 

The Ion is known primarily for failing f-jets (output transistors) on the main stereo output. Mine occasionally flakes out and I'm forced to use the auxiliary outs. Need to get that fixed eventually. Other than that, one hell of a synth for the value, IMHO.

[MikeT156]

I own a King Korg, a Blofeld, and previously owned an Ion.

 

I'm frankly shocked that anybody has associated the Ion with "build quality." Mine was was awful. Half the time, most of the voices wouldn't work, it'd occasionally freeze up, and I heard similar stories from other owners.

 

I don't come around here as often as I once did, but I have to comment on the above remark about the ION. I know that some of the early ION's had some problems with Decoders, but I never buy an early release of anything. No software that is version 1.0 and no keyboards that have just been released. I waited about 8 months after the ION's release and reports by owners that bought new ION's that are just shipped and had the latest SW version before I bought one. My ION worked great from day one, It never locked up, not once. System hangs are generally software problems. I used the ION for LIVE gigs, had it in a case in the back of a Uhaul trailer, moved it around in cold Winters in the North East. Never a problem.

 

The King Korg sounds good. It is another machine that can duplicate classic analog synths quite well. I don't care for the action, but inexpensive synths don't come with expensive Keybeds. You can get use to it. The sound is the most important thing. If you can get a good deal on a new KK, go for it. If not, don't be afraid to buy a used ION if its in good condition. Check Ebay for used prices.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alesis-Ion-synthesizer-/191578560027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9af8d61b

 

You can get a look at the one on Ebay. He has a Buy it now price of $350. That's cheap. However, it must be a "early" ION, it has low output from the Mains. If you can get a later version, it will work without problems and probably cost between $500 and $600. If its less than that, it has issues.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.