CEB Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm just reccomending 76 keys over 61 keys for doing splits. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm just recommending 76 keys over 61 keys for doing splits. http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2012/05/Roth.jpg "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm just recommending 76 keys over 61 keys for doing splits. Yeah I understand that Joe however OP has already stated he wants to use a two keyboard rig - he actually said a 49 key for the bass, however with no real options in 49 key units, other than as pure controllers) the 61 note would be the next best. If it were to be a single keys with splits option then the 88 would be the best. There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 No-- I would rather use the keyboard because I want to eventually be able to use it for making many other trance inducing sounds and effects at the same time in different zones. Keyboard is the instrument for me but just one with good bass too (I know it will never sound just like a bass guitar and that's fine). Bass piano is probably what to call my nich-- bass piano with weird effects along the way. If he is not comfortable on a weighted board 76s are going to be his best options. Yamaha 88 BALANCED action on the S90XS is my weapon of choice for this. Though I wish I it had more zones now with some of the stuff we have been doing lately just so Master Mode had more control over my chaos of covering this new pop stuff. When I got it I was in a top 40 Country act. The S90 is weighted but pretty light and fast. But if the OP don't have piano hands a 76 key Motif or .... Stage 2 Compact ..... [insert other brands here] may be best. I like the clean look of a single board but I can't usually live with only a single action type. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I've used Motif bass sounds live for many, many years. I've been told several times by our sound man that the bass sounds I used were superior to real bass guitar players in our churches house band. Greg This is a very helpful post. I have already decided on keyboard for a number of reasons (and am two years into serious practice on it) and having anyone say that a keyboard even sounded close to an actual bass guitar is great news, let alone someone saying they sound better. A couple things to keep in mind. 1) Sampled instruments often sound better than the real thing because they were sampled in optimimum conditions with expensive recording equipment. It's easier for the average musician to get a good drum or piano sound in a house mix with sampled instruments rather than trying to mic the real thing. The instrument used for bass samples in most workstations is likely a high-end instrument and likely one that is better than the average player may possess. 2) There are many things a real bass player can do that can't be done on a keyboard, but key bass can cover the majority of the significant stuff. 3) The key to being authentic when emulating any instrument is to play like that instrument. For bass guitar, listening to the kick drum is biggie. 4) For the best bass sound, forgo effects (chorus) and certainly make sure there is NO REVERB on the sound. Greg Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Good post Bif - if I can add to the OP, also watch the range you are using for the bass, even with 5 and six sting basses available I STILL hear guys playing notes that are way too low/high. If being as authentic as possible is not your concern then disregard this re 2. as long as you have a keyboard with after-touch coupled with good fingering technique, some of these "bass only" playing effects can actually be achieved There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 No-- I would rather use the keyboard because I want to eventually be able to use it for making many other trance inducing sounds and effects at the same time in different zones. Keyboard is the instrument for me but just one with good bass too (I know it will never sound just like a bass guitar and that's fine). Bass piano is probably what to call my nich-- bass piano with weird effects along the way. If he is not comfortable on a weighted board 76s are going to be his best options. Yamaha 88 BALANCED action on the S90XS is my weapon of choice for this. Though I wish I it had more zones now with some of the stuff we have been doing lately just so Master Mode had more control over my chaos of covering this new pop stuff. When I got it I was in a top 40 Country act. The S90 is weighted but pretty light and fast. But if the OP don't have piano hands a 76 key Motif or .... Stage 2 Compact ..... [insert other brands here] may be best. I like the clean look of a single board but I can't usually live with only a single action type. I have thought about the fact that a real bass is definitely going to have more expressiveness and that is ok with me. It looks like a 61 key is the one for me although on my korg there are only 36 and i never have to go past 26 keys while playing. If Yamaha had a quality 36 key board with all the sounds i liked I would prefer it actually. The way I play my korg is I set it on it's side bass end up and play the keys with my right hand and run the ((sound bender?)) and synth effects with my left-- accordion style. I am sure I could learn to use a weighted board-- I don't think that would be a problem but I am guessing semi weighted is gonna be more my style. My Korg is not weighted at all. Also the more pressure sensitive the keys are the better (makes for more subtlety) On the musical side- sometimes Ill put in the Dead and just be rocking it with them and improvising and cant seem to miss a note. Then Ill play a different song and not be able to find a single note!!! I give myself five or six more years to get good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 I just ran across something new and would like some input on it if you guys know. What about a dedicated bass synth? Like the little fatty or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 It sounds like you are addicted to BASS , so you may as well get a set of these > ......along with the synth of your choice. Those moog bass pedals are the cats meow , and have the deepest baddest growl - pedals take over where the rest can't hack the pace . (You're going to need some real grunt machine subs ) Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 There is no doubt that a dedicated bass synth is what I am looking for. I had never even heard of one before last night when I just stumbled on them on youtube. I saw a moog sub 37 with 22 keys that will do exactly what I was hoping I could find a keyboard to do (more actually since it is a serious synth.) It will make very very nice acoustic and bass sounds and you can tweek them endlessly until they do exactly what you want them to do and you can make loads and loads of psychedelic sounds come out of them also. Just right for coming out of an old time hymn with a large group of chanters-- entering into a sweet extended improvisational jam and ending with your face melting off!!! Oh my-- I think I have found my niche..... Pedals would be purchase number three right after the Moog synth and a decent sub woofer because I know what I have cant even handle a Moog. Of course now I really have to take my time and make sure I get the right one- research different brands etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You'll be in BASS Heaven. The moog bass pedals for instance pile on the beef to enhance this song big time , they are all the way through , paused , and you will hear them start again right here at 3:42 , and going down to that BIG low D - Sweeeeet!! > (Darryl and Mike have a set of pedals each , taking turns on notes). You could develope serious skills with pedals either hand or foot played along with your synth. You could become known as the "BASS Doctor" . Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Not much in the way of trad bass sounds though, but if the electronic doof doof sounds are what you are after then the Moog would be one way to go! It will take some practice on your part to become effective with foot control, it is one of those things that are so NOT as easy as it looks There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 What about a dedicated bass synth? Like the little fatty or something like that? Sure, if you only want analog bass sounds. It won't sound like any real bass guitar. I have another suggestion, especially considering your budget (limitless). Get a Muse Receptor and invest in some soft synths. Native Instruments has some killer electric bass libraries that are ultra-realistic. Also, pair it with a nice keytar and you're in business. You could do all this for less than $3000. Greg Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've heard the Motif XS being played as Bass guitar - from the audience end , and they sound VERY realistic - no complaints. (As suggested above). Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The XS bass guitar sounds are fine. That is what I was using last year when I covered LH bass when the bassist played an acoustic guitar set. The amp emulations are good enough the Motif doesn't need to route through a bass amp. Heck if ever called on to play bass guitar gig I do not use a bass amp anymore just plug my P-bass into a sansamp pre-amp DI to FOH. In the old days when I had to use a 360systems MIDI bass or a SQ-1 then yes I routed the bass parts through an Ampeg bass amp. New stuff is way better. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 What about a dedicated bass synth? Like the little fatty or something like that? Sure, if you only want analog bass sounds. It won't sound like any real bass guitar. I have another suggestion, especially considering your budget (limitless). Get a Muse Receptor and invest in some soft synths. Native Instruments has some killer electric bass libraries that are ultra-realistic. Also, pair it with a nice keytar and you're in business. You could do all this for less than $3000. Greg Ill have to go and take some time playing with one (moog). There is a store here in town that has them hooked up. Ill know it when I hear it if its for me or not. Ill see if they have muse receptors set up with soft synths too. My wife just let me know that I don't have unlimited budget on this even though I thought I did..... just gotta be sure I make the right purchase if I am going to use up the marital credits I have been accruing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Ill see if they have muse receptors set up with soft synths too. don't hold your breath for that one, but I guess anything is possible. Highly unlikely, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 What about a dedicated bass synth? Like the little fatty or something like that? Sure, if you only want analog bass sounds. It won't sound like any real bass guitar. I have another suggestion, especially considering your budget (limitless). Get a Muse Receptor and invest in some soft synths. Native Instruments has some killer electric bass libraries that are ultra-realistic. Also, pair it with a nice keytar and you're in business. You could do all this for less than $3000. Greg I already quoted you but I have this follow up. When watching a demo on the moog, cant remember which one, the guy was saying that they haves some really nice presets of acoustic bass along with electric so is that an overstatement by the company in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 .....the guy was saying that they haves some really nice presets of acoustic bass along with electric so is that an overstatement by the company in your opinion? I owned a Moog back in the day and have played around with the Sub-Phatty. Let me be clear. IT WON'T SOUND LIKE ANY ELECTRIC OR ACOUSTIC BASS. If you want to emulate a bass guitar, you'll need a rompler of some sort. You need sampled sounds to get there. And no, you won't likely find a Receptor in the store, let alone hooked up with software installed. Get on Native Instruments website and listen to their demo's of the Scarbee Jay bass. I have that library and it is uber-real. If you want to keep your wife happy, get the MOXF 6. MAP price is $1200 but can likely be had for less. I've had a MOXF 6 for 4 or 5 months and I love that board. Tons of fun to play and great sounds. Greg Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 ^^^^^^ Very helpful although it doesn't rule one out for me yet... I will go on Monday and spend some time on them at the music store and check the sound. You never know I may end up liking it. I don't know where my musical practice will take me yet I am just playing it by ear. I actually started playing music on the keyboard based on a really powerful dream I had and although I am not sharing all of the details, he had a piano and each key had a lever on it that could change the sound of it and he told me to stay down at the bass end of it. He told me it would be eight years before I could play one song! So far I am right on track, two years in and I still cant play worth a damn. Just trying to find the right instrument for playing bass in a setting that is geared towards sacred sound and entering into the sacred as a group with chant, song and music. There is not template for me to follow-- this is something I want to develop with the help of some very trained and skilled musicians who are a part of the group It has to be meditative also. I need something capable of warping sounds and even though the korg can warp sounds it really is not practical at all for doing that in a live setting. That is one of the things I liked about the moog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 "He" has put you crook , it would only take about 8 DAYS (from scratch) to play your first song on bass keys. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 "He" has put you crook , it would only take about 8 DAYS (from scratch) to play your first song on bass keys. Brett agree, probs even less for a straight up song. There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I know that, I can do that already--- but I mean really play, like really play, to own it, and be able to turn it inside out and upside down live from the seat of your pants.... I am talking about being able to create music right there in front of people to go in directions you've never gone before kind of thing. Kinda like the Dead were able to do-- and just blow your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 ^^^ About 10 days . Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Interesting, one of my friends teaches music at the Julliard school of music and he said ten years at a few hours a day. I wonder where the discrepancy is coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I HONESTLY don't know. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I will ask-- he has got to be talking about a level of music that we aren't talking about. I know he is not talking about pop music but maybe he has in mind classical or something? I have never had even one band do to me what the Dead are able to do to me though-- not a single one- not even close. I know there is a like them or hate them thing with the Dead but I shit you not-- without any drugs in my system I have had fully cosmic experiences at their shows-- cosmic "union with the universe type experiences"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maybe he is talking about the top of the pinnacle Classical Piano or Organ playing - that can take years(depends on passion and motivation of the individual hugely) and years(and Natural Talent) , and still more years to master .BORN TALENT can slash years off. Which is your favorite song by the G. Dead , so I can inspect on youtube :-). Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 There is no one song-- there is just this vibe that starts to set in as you listen-- it sneaks up on you. This is bird song Scarlet-fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZsNPlifSQ Going to bed-- hope the links work and if not Ill send you the exact titles so you can find them tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranklinsTower Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Just got back from the Guitar Center and was playing the moog for about an hour. Whoever said it wouldn't sound right was dead on about that. Its great but not at all for what I am trying to do. Checked out the Yamaha keyboards and they have the sound I am looking for for sure. Even the little 500 dollar one had better bass than my Korg-m50. I am in dialogue with a guy at MOOG though just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.