Casio PX-5 MIDI Out

[hardware]

A happy Casio PX-3S user here, never liked internal sounds but did enjoy the pseudo 4 zone controller features.

Sadly the unit's MIDI Out messages were always a PITA.

Many CC's for controlling internal sounds were sent out of the unit making an Analog Synth a nightmare. Not a problem though as I programmed the MIDI Solutions gear to filter out certain events.

What I need to know before buying another Casio is if this overlooked MIDI messaging is still implemented in the PX-5. Seems there are 4 actual zones now, but if the same external messages for internal controls are being sent out of the MIDI Out, I will pass on this as it seems controllers that want to be a stage piano and Master MIDI Controller suffer from this and Casio isn't the only one.

I will disable all internal sounds and just use the controller features as I have done for years with the PX-3S.

A decent controller with decent action that has taken a beating 6 nights a week for years.

It's MIDI out messages are now delayed taking 2 key presses which tells me I need a new unit.

It works after being on for a while and then going through everything, but it's a warning sign I must prepare for.

My experience with new any units built since 2005 is they were built to be priced for consumers, so if a repair becomes inevitable it's better to just buy another unit.

I bought 3 of the KS88 M Audio controllers and they were excellent units, but after 2 years contacts broke and made the suspect notes send 127 velocity, so I rotated one for synths only while replacing the sample instrument controller.

Need something quick, so thanks for any insights.

[NewImprov]

I use a PX-5s exactly the way you describe, primarily as a controller. I do this not because I don't like the internal sounds of the PX, I actually like a lot of them, but because I got the board fairly recently and had all the sounds for my various bands dialed in in Mainstage. I just needed to drop the PX into my pre-existing setup.

 

I highly recommend the software editor for the PX. You can set all the controllers to work internally (on the PX sounds), over USB MIDI and over external MIDI. I was pretty quickly able to setup a patch that just provided the controls to USB MIDI, and one that just controls external MIDI, and I have them as the top 2 patches in the first bank of presets. I was even able to make a patch that uses the PX as a lower manual for my Hammond XK-1, and uses the 6 sliders as drawbars. The XK has a screwy MIDI implementation for the drawbars, it uses one CC for each set of 9 bars, dividing the range into 8 steps for each individual drawbar. By setting the top and bottom values of the CC's sent by the PX sliders, I was able to make it work.

 

The PX is great as a MIDI controller, and IMHO, would be worth the price even if it didn't include sounds.

[hardware]

Excellent news as I like these controllers too. I beat the crap out of mine for years so I expect this, and the news of an Editor is most appreciated.

The colors are so lame though, but not to fear, I can make it acceptable.

I even hid the Casio name on the PX-3S.

Sad thing is most folks always told me how great the Moog sounded.

Only from the side in daylight can one tell some cosmetics were used.

 

http://s29.postimg.org/8tcrrsg9j/IMG_0310.jpg

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[Mike Martin]

What I need to know before buying another Casio is if this overlooked MIDI messaging is still implemented in the PX-5. Seems there are 4 actual zones now, but if the same external messages for internal controls are being sent out of the MIDI Out, I will pass on this as it seems controllers that want to be a stage piano and Master MIDI Controller suffer from this and Casio isn't the only one.

 

The only thing the PX-5S would send is the Bank/Program change for a Stage Setting when you select one. This can be changed to a NRPN instead. The PX-5S also sends a CC88 with each note on as part of the high-resolution MIDI velocity specification but this can also be disabled.

 

 

 

[Dana.]

I even hid the Casio name on the PX-3S.

Sad thing is most folks always told me how great the Moog sounded.

Pathetic.

[Delaware Dave]

The XK has a screwy MIDI implementation for the drawbars, it uses one CC for each set of 9 bars, dividing the range into 8 steps for each individual drawbar. By setting the top and bottom values of the CC's sent by the PX sliders, I was able to make it work.

The XK also offers a 2nd method of controlling the drawbars, which is sending CC controllers 21-29 for the lower 9 drawbars. The trick is that the lower drawbars have to be sent on the upper channel, i.e. sending 21-29 on channel 1, not channel 2. The lower keybed however has to be sent on channel 2. Thankfully the Kurz PC3 can send the drawbar info on one channel while transmitting key information on another channel very easily.

 

I used the screwy midi implementation you spoke of because I couldnt get 21-29 to work. It wasn't until I figured out that 21-29 had to be sent on the upper channel and not the lower channel. Nowhere in the manual does it specify upper channel, I just assumed lower channel because they were the lower drawbars. Once I got 21-29 working I ditched the screwy implementation method. The screwy imlementation method has to be sent on the lower channel! Go figure.....

[NewImprov]

The XK has a screwy MIDI implementation for the drawbars, it uses one CC for each set of 9 bars, dividing the range into 8 steps for each individual drawbar. By setting the top and bottom values of the CC's sent by the PX sliders, I was able to make it work.

The XK also offers a 2nd method of controlling the drawbars, which is sending CC controllers 21-29 for the lower 9 drawbars. The trick is that the lower drawbars have to be sent on the upper channel, i.e. sending 21-29 on channel 1, not channel 2. The lower keybed however has to be sent on channel 2. Thankfully the Kurz PC3 can send the drawbar info on one channel while transmitting key information on another channel very easily.

 

I used the screwy midi implementation you spoke of because I couldnt get 21-29 to work. It wasn't until I figured out that 21-29 had to be sent on the upper channel and not the lower channel. Nowhere in the manual does it specify upper channel, I just assumed lower channel because they were the lower drawbars. Once I got 21-29 working I ditched the screwy implementation method. The screwy imlementation method has to be sent on the lower channel! Go figure.....

 

Interesting. I saw that 21-29 were listed in the MIDI implementation chart for lower drawbars, but didn't even try to make them work. The screwy method is not that bad once you fine tune the ranges of the faders. To make the PX sliders work as drawbars, I had to remember to set the minimum value for each fader 9 steps above the max value, but the PX is smart enough to interpolate.

 

My next project is to program VB3 to be controlled by the XK.

[hardware]

The only thing the PX-5S would send is the Bank/Program change for a Stage Setting when you select one. This can be changed to a NRPN instead. The PX-5S also sends a CC88 with each note on as part of the high-resolution MIDI velocity specification but this can also be disabled.

 

Bank / Program is perfect. I was getting tons of other CC's, mostly the effect CCs which inside of my other apps I use for Drawbars on a VB3.

 

And FWIW the VB3 is pretty good but really gets closer to what I like using the Melda M-Rotary plug in.

Melda has 2 Rotary plugs, Vintage and M.

I bought both since I have to cover other parts than B3/prog/classic rock stuff.

The VB3 Leslie has no grit and uses some sort of 3D goop that adds distance to the sound.

Melda is in your face with so many great tweaks to taste, very nice.

Plus the demo's last long enough to really learn to add your own controllers and dial in the sound.

 

Thanks Mike and Improv.