Confusionator Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I was lucky enough to go to NAMM, where I heard a lot of virtual analog synths and also quite a few real ones. Sometimes--like at the Alesis booth--there was a virtual and a real analog synth side by side (in that case the Ion and the Andromeda, respectively). What a difference! The analog synths sound *so* much better, in every case. The virtual analog synths are "interesting," but only the real analog synths make sounds that you actually want to listen to. This difference is more striking to me than the differences in digital drums, guitar amp simulators, sampled pianos, and sampled orchestral instruments. I've been trying to figure out why that is. The best I can come up with is that synths create sounds that don't vary over time as much as real instruments. Maybe that variation over time distracts the brain while you're listening to those other instruments, and without that distraction you can really tell the difference in the synths. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 tuning analog synths every few hours is very fun. repatching analog synths is very fun. keeping log books of analog synth patches is very fun. hearing the analog synth drift in the middle of the perfect take - and having to retune the analog synth and redo the take - is very fun. maintaining an aging analog synth is very fun. finding/building/paying for parts to maintain said synth is very fun. yep, no comparison. analog IS more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Confusionator: sounds like you are buying into the marketing hype that is the phrase virtual analog. if you take a moment and consider those machines sold as VAs as what they truly are, digital subtractive synths, you will see and hear that they bring their own unique voice to the mix palette, and often that voice is not just one of value, but one that a real analog could never do. do real analogs sound better? I guess that depends on the context you define. to me, analog synths sound analog, and sometimes that is what the doctor ordered, and sometimes not. at the end of the day, seeing digital subtractive synths as analog wannabes says more about ones perceptual ability and frame of mind than the synths being considered. cheers, aeon Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusionator Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Aeon, Good point. Yes, when I hear the term "virtual analog" that's what I expect, just like I expect V-Drums to sound like drums. When the manufacturers change their names for these instruments, I'll stop judging them against the "real" thing. And yes, I know that digital's a lot easier to handle than the old stuff. That's why I use plugins and digital synths myself. I just want to be clear--especially to myself--that the tradeoffs I make for convenience sake really do have a cost. With digital, so many of us tend to want to believe that the "no such thing as something for nothing" rule is magically suspended. Too bad that just ain't so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrox247 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Convenience before sonics in what is supposed to be an art form based around sonics seems quite unfortunate.The advancement of technology is a wonderfull thing, but if we find ourselves settling for less than our best then we are not living up to our responsibilities as profesionals. Use the best tool for the job whether it is analog or digital. Use that which will help you do the best work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Coaster: tuning analog synths every few hours is very fun. repatching analog synths is very fun. keeping log books of analog synth patches is very fun. hearing the analog synth drift in the middle of the perfect take - and having to retune the analog synth and redo the take - is very fun. maintaining an aging analog synth is very fun. finding/building/paying for parts to maintain said synth is very fun. yep, no comparison. analog IS more fun.I think it depends on which analog synths you own, no? I own several, including a Roland JP3P and a Roland MKS70 and don't have any of those problems. Now, my Korg MS20 requires more work in the sense that you do have to work each time to go and get your sound, but even that's consistent. My girlfriend walked in to the room while I was playing the JX3P and remarked on how good it sounded. They are a different sound, but if you are talking about a digital synthesizer emulating an analog synthesizer, there's no comparison in terms of sound. If it's a digital synthesizer simply doing its thing, then they are two different animals altogether. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Ken, you don't have those probs with the JX3P or MKS70, because they're not %100 analogue synths. They use DCO's. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Alon: DCOs still have a 100% analog signal path. if you exclude any synth with any form of digital control signal from being real analog, then some classics like the Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 and Oberheim OB-8 arent real analog synths either. Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techristian Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Coaster tuning analog synths every few hours is very fun. Not really, but because they would drift you could get some real FAT SOUNDS back then. That WAS fun. Dan http://teachmedrums.com TEACHMEDRUMS.COM My Music Videos RED PILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Ventura Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 However, the bottom line is always the same, with every piece of equipment you are examining: if you listen to it by itself, or in comparison with some of its species, you can probably hear differences and variables; BUT in the context of a song, a piece of music, any recorded material whatsoever involving more than a single sound, these individual differences are no longer prominent, they are watered down, they disappear into murk at worst, and into the spirit of the music at best. Max Ventura, Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 who is that goofy guy in your avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Any seasoned performer will tell you that we hear as much with our eyes as with our ears. I'd like to see some blind A/B listener tests of well-programmed synths of both digital VA and analog persuasion.... The test ought include some renditions of well-known synth passages AND some newly created items, with each passage played on both the analog and the VA. In theory, the person who says "analog sounds much better than VA" ought be able to listen to the first couple seconds of the first passage and immediately identify whether it's analog or digital, even before hearing the 'other' rendition of the same passage - and then accurately repeat that assessment with every passage played. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 True, apart Arturia Moog Modular V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 <> You're also talking about quite a price difference! If you had an analog synth that cost $999 and a digital synth that cost 4 or 5 grand, I think I'd know which one sounds better... I have an Ion, but I didn't get it to replace my Minimoog or Korg Mono/Poly. I got it because it makes cool sounds, regardless of the technology. That said, though, it does get some pretty ballsy filter sounds and such that are very "analogish." Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I started a thread on modeling and what not on GM's forum. Seems the general consensus, at this point in time, is the same as this thread's name. But almost everyone agrees that while it is not exactly like the real deal, it is getting better and can be useful in the right context. This quote may say it best: "If it sounds right, it is right."---Joe Meek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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