J. Dan Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I remember seeing an early CD player in the Sears catalog for $500...that would be almost $1400 today. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksoper Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Check out some of the nice work Busch just did... http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88149 Busch-- That's really fine work. You wrung every drop out of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane hugo Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Would you buy the Schmidt Analog (going for $20K) if you had the money? You're gonna need something to plug it in with: [video:youtube] http://blip.fm/invite/WorkRelease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Mizzell Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Part of me says Been there, done that. I'd rather look forward into new methods of innovative sound creation that can take me into unexplored territory. For the most part software folks have gone that direction. Between MAX, SuperCollider, and Csound, what can you NOT do? Of course, the interfaces for these suck. So, a little further up the chain you get Reaktor, AudioMulch, Plogue Bidule, and the daddy of them, Kyma. Interfaces? Unless you like tweaking on a computer, still not so much. Advanced sound creation/manipulation takes a more advanced interface, until somebody dumbs down a subset of it and puts a panel on it (FM synthesis, for one). Korg, Roland, and Yamaha are trying to sell to the masses. There's really not that much in the flagship synths of any of these three that's particularly innovative. They're all mostly just refinements of what started with the Korg M1 and Roland D50, with some modeling thrown in on top so we can get that sound from Jump. Not to say these folks haven't released so cool stuff though. The DX7 was an amazing instrument. Too bad Yamaha hasn't kept going with a more refined FM instrument. They peaked (in my opinion) with the FSR1, though you need a degree in rocket science to program the thing. For Korg, it was probably the Prophecy and Z1, which indirectly led to the Oasys, which we now see parts of in the Kronos. Roland? The V-Synth. Just my opinion. But really, for most buyers if it's got a good piano, organ, strings, and a few meat and potatoes synth patches that's what sells. How many folks have never programmed a single preset in their entire lives? Probably a higher percentage than we think. Want to live on the edge? Dump ALL your presets and start from scratch before your next gig! If Korg wants to release a new Odyssey, more power to them. The Odyssey was a very cool synth at the time, but it wasn't perfect. Why not go ahead and add some improvements/updates while you're at it? Expand the modulation routings, give it a more advanced LFO . Moog had the right idea here. MiniMoog? We can make it BETTER!, and we got the Voyager. For me, the more interesting products are being made the the cottage industry folks. You want alien weirdness? Look at Ciat-Lonbarde's stuff. The Plumbutter makes an appearance on the last Nine Inch Nails release. Innovation seems to be racing forward in the modular world as well. For right now, you can only wish somebody would put an oscillator as cool as Mutable Instruments' Braids or Intellijel's Cylonix Shapeshifter into a mass produced polysynth, but it's not going to happen (at least any time soon). What's my point? I dunno. Mass produced is going to be for the masses and it's the bread and butter stuff that's going to make the most money, so that's what's going to get produced and sold. I'm not doing the weekend warrior thing at this point, so I'm looking in different directions myself. I'd just rather see new innovative instruments than dredging the past back up again. Like others have said, I can get 98.5% of the way towards almost ANY vintage sound you want on (some) current hardware without having to have the actual vintage piece in front of me to do it. Still, some of this will be an educational experience for the giggin kidz too young to know what it felt like to have to have to program your next sound on the fly before the drummer managed to count off that next song. NO PRESETS dudes! You had to know exactly what all those knobs/sliders did! Les Mizzell ---------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Check out some of the nice work Busch just did... http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88149 Really nice detailed sounds. Great work, Busch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Part of me says Been there, done that. I'd rather look forward into new methods of innovative sound creation that can take me into unexplored territory. For the most part software folks have gone that direction. Between MAX, SuperCollider, and Csound, what can you NOT do? Of course, the interfaces for these suck. So, a little further up the chain you get Reaktor, AudioMulch, Plogue Bidule, and the daddy of them, Kyma. Interfaces? Unless you like tweaking on a computer, still not so much. Advanced sound creation/manipulation takes a more advanced interface, until somebody dumbs down a subset of it and puts a panel on it (FM synthesis, for one). 1st,- good post ... But may I ask how many "keyboard players" make their money w/ "advanced sound creation/manipulation" ? I think, the basis how and why we buy gear frequently also depends on how we make the money to afford it and for what we´d need it. I agree on, we can do the most w/ software today while "the interface" sucks,- but I promise there won´t be any computer interface which doesn´t, at least not in my lifetime. I have to mention,- software is everywhere, so it´s hard to differenciate between software and hardware,- and software was already in early but programmable polyphonic analogue synths, just only smaller footprint, residing in eproms and not receiving so many updates as the products will today. One reason might be these older products were more finished than todays products when released. OTOH, there are excellent hardware products out there running software on dedicated DSPs and part of that software is synth emulations not being calculated natively on the host computer,- so there is hardware behaviour like fast and tight MIDI, much less or almost no latency and great "analogue" (as well as digital) sound. Korg, Roland, and Yamaha are trying to sell to the masses. There's really not that much in the flagship synths of any of these three that's particularly innovative. They're all mostly just refinements of what started with the Korg M1 and Roland D50, with some modeling thrown in on top so we can get that sound from Jump. Not to say these folks haven't released so cool stuff though. I think they release cool stuff, more or less always and depending on their marketing strategy. I rarely see anything really sounding like s##t today and we made great music w/ some much crappier gear sometimes in the past,- and had success. It´s simply a fact, gear doesn´t make the music, but since some time it might be, some "music styles" only define themselves by the used electro gear, lets say old drum machine´s bass drums and hi-hats or such,- similar to "no TB303, no cool acid bassline". I´m a big analogue synth fan but when I hear all the "experts" and synth nerds out there talking about the great analogue synths from the past and then I see these guys are about 20-30 years old I wonder from where they have all their experience w/ that gear. I had tons of synths and other gear from the past and when I had it, no one mentioned it as the "holy grail of sound". Instead, it was quite normal to use Jupiter 8s, Memorymoogs, Prophet 5s and/or T8s, diverse Moogs, ARPs and Oberheims to manage the daily jobs in the studios and live. Up to now, I like using some of that gear, just because I know it very well and know what it does and what not,- but I´m pretty sure, when I would be young and make music today, I´d use what´s available today the same way I did in the past. I simply don´t see the need for extremely high priced analog gear for todays average radio and TV oriented music and not at all for the typical live gigging scenario,- except the musician himself WANTS to use such gear by whatever personal reasons. The DX7 was an amazing instrument. Too bad Yamaha hasn't kept going with a more refined FM instrument. They peaked (in my opinion) with the FSR1, though you need a degree in rocket science to program the thing. Yes, the DX7 (mkII) is cool and I kept it until now. The FS1r is the FM king of the hill because offering 8 operators and offering better internal FX than the SY/TG 77 or the SY99,- but I still think the SY/TG77 and SY99 are the best FM products Yammi ever made. The formant stuff in the FS1r never made me pull te trigger. I swear on the TG77 b.t.w. because I was never interested in the AWM samples offered in all of these models and the TG77, for me, offers everything FM I´d ever need as a musician. When Yamaha would come back w/ something FM, I think the best option would be a more advanced daughterboard than the PLG board was and a host instrument allowing better latency values which such board inserted. Think about a PLG-300 (or 150 mk II) offering the complete range of features of a SY99 (except the samples) but twice the polyphony and split/layer abilities,- and some Motif XF mk II w/ expansion slot for such boards. For Korg, it was probably the Prophecy and Z1, which indirectly led to the Oasys, which we now see parts of in the Kronos. I think the best KORG you could búy was a Triton Extreme 76 w/ MOSS board. I wished the MOSS board had 12 voices like the Z-1 though. I still have my M1Rex and the Wavestation SR and I´´m pretty sure the M1Rex will go 1st while I keep the SR. The Wavestation SR is one of the coolest modules KORG ever made. Roland? The V-Synth. Just my opinion. I never had GAS for this synth. But really, for most buyers if it's got a good piano, organ, strings, and a few meat and potatoes synth patches that's what sells. There are too many people out there who want it simple and ready to go,- why not ? When you do music as a hobby,- what do you play ? There´s isn´t any producer behind your back, wanting you to tweak the patches NOW or generate something from scratch. All these customers have a day job and when coming home and doing music as a hobby, they want FUN, not education and work. The manufacturers need sales and there aren´t not so much music pros out there to generate enough sales. We all benefit from big sales to the masses, that´s why we get gear much cheaper today. The price is, we have to live w/ these compromise concepts of workstations and entertainment instruments or you go to the boutique company and buy there for twice, triple or factor X of price. You can buy specialized professional gear, but you have to pay for it. For me personally, it´s questionable if this should or must be analogue gear and the reality is,- you can buy both if you want, but possibly not that specialized from the big five. I don´t see re-issues of MS20 or Odyssey are really specialized or innovative at all,- so it´s not for me anyway. The expensive Schmidt anlogue synth is a great machine for sure and there´s all the idealism involved, but it´s not essential for making quality music, recordings and performances. It´s quite simple,- you decide. How many folks have never programmed a single preset in their entire lives? Probably a higher percentage than we think. Want to live on the edge? Dump ALL your presets and start from scratch before your next gig! Well, that was already the rule for many pros when the Prophet 5 came out and already the SCI service department recognized in most machines coming back to the factory there were the factory presets like they were when the instrument was sold new. The introduction of preset system alone made the users lazy. I grew up w/ the Formant modular, preset less PPG 1020 analogue, Minimoog D and white ARP Odyssey and when I got my 1st Prophet 5 I was so used to program from scratch from the previous gear I also did it w/ the Prophet 5 in the studios and used the preset system for live only. But most others played the factory presets always. If Korg wants to release a new Odyssey, more power to them. The Odyssey was a very cool synth at the time, but it wasn't perfect. Why not go ahead and add some improvements/updates while you're at it? Expand the modulation routings, give it a more advanced LFO . I don´t need a Odyssey because I use Prodyssey today. It has all the functionality and sounds extremely close to the original. I won´t pay much money just only for the haptics. Moog had the right idea here. MiniMoog? We can make it BETTER!, and we got the Voyager. Exactly. The Voyager doesn´t sound exactly like a Minimoog D, but it´s a (functionality wise) improved Minimoog. I love my Minimoog D because it´s the last one I kept,- but today when I were younger,- I´d buy a Minimoog Voyager (Electric Blue) for sure and make it work in the or my music. What's my point? I dunno. I'm not doing the weekend warrior thing at this point, so I'm looking in different directions myself. It´s not only the weekend warrior who mainly needs the bread & butter stuff,- the pro touring artist does too ! Play in a Blues/Rock band or w/ such an act as a hired musician and you probably need only a few patches for the complete show. Go on the road w/ a pop act and you need individually tweaked patches incl. many splits and layers for every tune. It´s much easier when having a lot of pre-programmed patches available which only need minor tweaks than programming all from scratch, so the 500+ presets in ROM are a good offer when carefully selected,- except most of these are drums, electric bass and guitars. ...I can get 98.5% of the way towards almost ANY vintage sound you want on (some) current hardware without having to have the actual vintage piece in front of me to do it. This,- and except you do side by side comparisons for youtube and for the nerds ! Still, some of this will be an educational experience for the giggin kidz too young to know what it felt like to have to have to program your next sound on the fly before the drummer managed to count off that next song. NO PRESETS dudes! You had to know exactly what all those knobs/sliders did! Or better, "You had to know exactly what all those knobs/sliders did" and only use presets when you really need ´em. We need preset memory locations for live performances. A.C. 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Al Coda Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Check out some of the nice work Busch just did... http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88149 Really nice detailed sounds. Great work, Busch!! These patches sound phantastic, excellent work ! A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Steve Fortner's 2011 review of the Kronos - specifically the AL-1 engine rings true: " More significant than any of this is the sound quality of the modeled waveforms and filters. Its simply unparalleled....To sound any more analog than this, you need a real analog synth.". Spot on. Check out some of the nice work Busch just did... http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88149 That really does sound fantastic. I have a Kronos, but can't seem to wrap my brain around even the most basic parameter adjustments of the AL-1. "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If the quest if for more waveforms and that quest is (logically) answered by making the oscillators digital, it would still be nice to have that all in an Open Source architecture, or at least receive the option to use all that digital power as a proper patchable synth. Now it seems a big separation between "simple" generators in the analog domain, and the complexity of machines that are of a given digital signal path topography. Also, why not use the Prophet 12 filters simultaneously to acts as a vocoder, and say add a good tube simulation effect... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thanks to all for the words of encouragement above. I do enjoy doing this. Anyway, here's an audio demo for volume #2. Everything is done at the program level and everything played in real-time (though sometimes the program uses the step sequencers/KARMA) Famous Synth Sounds Volume #2 Audio Demo Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thanks to all for the words of encouragement above. I do enjoy doing this. Busch. It's quite obvious. Makes me want to buy a Kronos and I have absolutely no need for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thanks to all for the words of encouragement above. I do enjoy doing this. Anyway, here's an audio demo for volume #2. Everything is done at the program level and everything played in real-time (though sometimes the program uses the step sequencers/KARMA) Famous Synth Sounds Volume #2 Audio Demo Very impressive Busch , you have MOST of the sounds nailed , and a few that made us smile from ear to ear . Brett Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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