Michael W Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I have read, and heard (in videos) that the new FA instruments have "independent MFX engines" for each of the 16 parts in studio set (combi) mode. Has anyone come across detailed info on this? What does each "independent MFX engine" contain? Reverb, chorus, delay, along with things like rotary speaker and amp sim effects? Thanks - I have not seen any specifics. Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I have read, and heard (in videos) that the new FA instruments have "independent MFX engines" for each of the 16 parts in studio set (combi) mode. Has anyone come across detailed info on this? What does each "independent MFX engine" contain? Reverb, chorus, delay, along with things like rotary speaker and amp sim effects? Yes. It's supposed to have the same structure as the Integra 7, which would mean there are about 60 available effects, including everything you mentioned. You can choose one effect per part (though some effects are, themselves, combination effects, like chorus+delay, amp sim+phaser, etc.), and you can run up to 16 parts at a time. You can download the Integra 7 Parameter Guide from Roland's web site and get all the details there. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybersoniq Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just for you Michael...here's the list of Integra 7 MFX Parameters from the manual TOC with relevant page reference. Just remember you get one MFX per channel...so custom/user desired serial or parallel routing is NOT possible with the MFX options below. Spectrum 74 Low Boost 74 Step Filter 74 Enhancer 75 Auto Wah 75 Humanizer 75 Speaker Simulator 75 Phaser 1 76 Phaser 2 76 Phaser 3 76 Step Phaser 77 Multi Stage Phaser 77 Infinite Phaser 77 Ring Modulator 78 Tremolo 78 Auto Pan 78 Slicer 78 Rotary 1 79 Rotary 2 79 Rotary 3 80 Chorus 80 Flanger 81 Step Flanger 81 Hexa-Chorus 82 Tremolo Chorus 82 Space-D 82 Overdrive 82 Distortion 82 Guitar Amp Simulator 83 Compressor 83 Limiter 83 Gate 84 Delay 84 Modulation Delay 85 3Tap Pan Delay 85 4Tap Pan Delay 85 Multi Tap Delay 86 Reverse Delay 86 Time Ctrl Delay 87 LOFI Compress 87 Bit Crasher 87 Pitch Shifter 87 2Voice Pitch Shifter 88 Overdrive -> Chorus 88 Overdrive -> Flanger 88 Overdrive -> Delay 89 Distortion -> Chorus 89 Distortion -> Flanger 89 Distortion -> Delay 89 OD/DS -> TouchWah 89 OD/DS -> AutoWah 90 GuitarAmpSim -> Chorus 90 GuitarAmpSim -> Flanger 91 GuitarAmpSim -> Phaser 91 GuitarAmpSim -> Delay 92 EP AmpSim -> Tremolo 93 EP AmpSim -> Chorus 93 EP AmpSim -> Flanger 93 EP AmpSim -> Phaser 94 EP AmpSim -> Delay 94 Enhancer -> Chorus 95 Enhancer -> Flanger 95 Enhancer -> Delay 95 Chorus -> Delay 95 Flanger -> Delay 96 Chorus -> Flanger 96 Regards, C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Thanks, AnotherScott and Cybersoniq. This is, unfortunately, what I was afraid of, and not what I'd hoped for. Over the years, I have been SO spoiled by my Virus TI, which offers truly independent multi-effects for each of the 16 parts. With the Virus TI, each of the 16 parts can have its own reverb, chorus, delay, distortion, phaser, and EQ. This means that the patches sound IDENTICAL whether in single voice mode or 16-part sequencer/combi mode. I keep waiting for a workstation that can do this. With the FA, it seems as though the phrase "independent MFX engine" really just means that you can have one insert effect for each part (using Yamaha terminology). Thanks again. Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 With the Virus TI, each of the 16 parts can have its own reverb, chorus, delay, distortion, phaser, and EQ. This means that the patches sound IDENTICAL whether in single voice mode or 16-part sequencer/combi mode. That is true on the Integra (and presumably FA as well)... each patch sounds identical whether played by itself or in combination with up to 15 other sounds. However, each patch can only have one of those listed multi-effects (though again, as you can see, some of those listed effects are, themselves, multiple effects). Also, though, besides the effects on each of the 16 sounds, there is separate global reverb, EQ, and chorus; and separate compressor/EQ processing for drums. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 That is true on the Integra (and presumably FA as well)... each patch sounds identical whether played by itself or in combination with up to 15 other sounds. I am remembering now, with regard to the Integra-7, seeing a comment that there wasn't really a single voice mode on it, at least in the typical sense. It seemed as though the Integra was basically always in 16-part mode, and that to play one sound, you just loaded that sound into one of the 16 parts and played it. Is this an accurate description? With the Virus TI, the effects are much more sophisticated. Each sound in single Voice mode has very, very detailed effects settings that are stored as part of the Voice. Not only the reverb type, but the settings of many reverb parameters. Ditto for delay, where the delay type is stored, along with countless other delay parameters. Ditto for the chorus unit, phaser, distortion, multi-band EQ, and something called "analog boost". Every single effects parameter setting is stored in the Single Voice, and that Voice - with EXACTLY all of the same effects - appears when selected in 16-part mode. It's like the TI truly has 16-multi effects units on board, and each effects unit does seven different effects at the same time. It doesn't just do reverb+chorus+insertion effect, like so many workstations do. The TI has 16 discreet reverb units, 16 discreet delay units, 16 discreet chorus/flanger units, multi-band EQs etc. When Access came out with this power built into the TI in 2006, I figured it would only be a matter of time before we saw this kind of massive effects capability in workstations. But for whatever reason that hasn't happened. I don't know why. Whatever processors Access was using in 2006 (and continues to use in 2014) are capable of doing 16 simultaneous digital synthesis parts, along with 16 instances of 7 different effect types, all at the same time. One more thing (and then I'll end my Access fanboy rant) - With the TI, you can load 16 Voices (with all of their unique effects) into 16 different parts of a Multi. You can then tweak the individual Voices in the Multi up the proverbial wazoo - you can modify any and all effects settings, envelopes, filters, mod routings - ANYTHING. None of these changes affect the original Voices themselves. You can then save the Multi, and all of your edits to the Voices are saved with it, but the original Voices (outside of the Multi) remain completely intact. You can also do a bulk dump of your current Multi into your DAW, and recall everything when you start up a project. All of this makes the Virus TI a JOY to work with in 16-part mode with a sequencer. I get that with the Integra and FA, it is very cool to have 16 different MFXes happening at once, especially since some of them are two effects in one. However, is still kinda sucks that each of the 16 parts has to have the same reverb type, correct? Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just for you Michael...here's the list of Integra 7 MFX Parameters from the manual TOC with relevant page reference. Just remember you get one MFX per channel...so custom/user desired serial or parallel routing is NOT possible with the MFX options below. Thanks so much. I should go and download an Integra-7 manual and peruse it, given that that Integra probably shares a lot with the FA. Before the announcement about the FA, I'd been seriously eyeballing Integras on ebay. I've got a Jupiter-50, which has features I absolutely love and others (or lack thereof) that drive me nuts. I've also got an XV-5050. I *used* to have a Fantom XR, and miss many of the sounds that it brought to my setup. So the massive sound library of the Integra-7 seemed to be exactly what I needed. BUT, I've always preferred working with keyboard instruments... For whatever reason, rack unit instruments haven't ever fit in with my workflow. I do wish that the FA had an entire Integra-7 inside. Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I am remembering now, with regard to the Integra-7, seeing a comment that there wasn't really a single voice mode on it, at least in the typical sense. It seemed as though the Integra was basically always in 16-part mode, and that to play one sound, you just loaded that sound into one of the 16 parts and played it. Is this an accurate description? I believe so. Do you see some shortcoming in this approach? However, is still kinda sucks that each of the 16 parts has to have the same reverb type, correct? Yes, the same type (since I realize now that the only reverb is the global effect)... but you can still vary the amount for each part. Traditionally, this is how reverb has always worked on a mixing desk with an effects send... and is normally desirable if you are using reverb to simulate a room, and want to give the impression that all the instruments are playing at the same time in the same room. I can't say I've ever wanted different kinds of reverb on different sounds. But I'm pretty traditional in these things. Most effects (everything listed in cybersoniq's post) can be different for each part. On a mixing board those would be insert effects, and are ones which would typically be applied to a particular instrument rather than the group as a whole. As for the TI, yes, it's very cool! But I can't say I'm surprised that the $1200 FA doesn't have the processing horsepower of the $3k Virus. Even apart from the boards kind of being something of apples and oranges to begin with. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Thanks, AnotherScott and Cybersoniq. Over the years, I have been SO spoiled by my Virus TI, which offers truly independent multi-effects for each of the 16 parts. With the Virus TI, each of the 16 parts can have its own reverb, chorus, delay, distortion, phaser, and EQ. This means that the patches sound IDENTICAL whether in single voice mode or 16-part sequencer/combi mode. I keep waiting for a workstation that can do this. With the FA, it seems as though the phrase "independent MFX engine" really just means that you can have one insert effect for each part (using Yamaha terminology). Thanks again. The Yamaha motifs have been doing this for years. On the XF the insert effects with each voice get saved WITH the voice, so if it is loaded into a sequencer or accessed via a midi file, the sound will be exactly as you programmed it. Whether in voice mode, performance mode or sequencer mode. The only downside is you can only have a maximum of 8 parts using Insert EFX. BTW, as the MOXF has exactly the same engine as the Motif XF (sans Sampler) it also has the same 8 insert efx capability. There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 The Yamaha motifs have been doing this for years. On the XF the insert effects with each voice get saved WITH the voice, so if it is loaded into a sequencer or accessed via a midi file, the sound will be exactly as you programmed it. Whether in voice mode, performance mode or sequencer mode. The only downside is you can only have a maximum of 8 parts using Insert EFX. Yes, I had an original Motif 6. As I recall, you could add an insert effect to one of the 16 parts. I currently have an MOX6, which will handle insert effects on three of the 16 parts. I am seriously considering upgrading to the MOXF, if only for the eight part capability. These are great steps forward. I still yearn for the ability to have seven discreet effects on all 16 parts, a la the Virus TI. Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I believe so. Do you see some shortcoming in this approach? Well, it's just a different way of working. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though it gets away from the concept of storing effects as an integral part of a "Voice" or "Program" or whatever you want to call something that typically becomes one of the (up to) 16 sounds in a multi/combi. Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechEverlasting Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yes, the Integra is always in 16-channel "multi" mode. While there is only one overall reverb you can vary the send by editing the individual programs or per channel. I've been surprised how useful the MFX equalizer has been for tweaking the acoustic "Supernatural" Integra-7 sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Looking again at the list of MFX in the Integra-7, especially with some of the combinations, it looks to be very thorough, when combined with global reverb, chorus, and EQ. It is definitely very usable, and I could see being able to work very well within its limitations. Just for comparison, my Jupiter-50 is not 16-part multi-timbral, but you can do four MFX-type effects at the same time, plus reverb. So, for example, on an electric piano patch, you can - - EQ the sound to your taste - Dial in some of the Enhancer effect - Add a bit of Chorus to the EP - Send the sound into Auto Pan - Add a touch of Hall Reverb With the Jupiter, I've become spoiled, being able to create "Live Sets", which are a combination of up to four SuperNatural tones, which can then routed through (up to) five effects. Question for Integra-7 owners - I assume you can adjust the MIDI channel for each of the 16 parts, so that you can layer Tones? Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybersoniq Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yes in the Integra 7 Studio set you can set MIDI channels per part and do lots of layering/tuning/velocity/tone offsets you'd need. You could also create a template to model the Jupiter 50's 4 part structure (minus the FX routings of the Jupiter 50). Based on the Integra 7 Studio Sets, the FA should be able to have lots of control over the 16 parts (including the following tabs as in the Integra 7): CONTROLLERS tab 5 TONES Tone and Bank Selection tab 6 PART LEVEL/CH tab 6 PART EQ tab 7 PART KBD Zone/Range/Fading/layering/velocity switching tab 7 PITCH coarse/fine tuning tab 8 OFFSETS attack/decay/release/filter cutoff/resonance/vibrato rate/depth tab 9 SCALE tab 10 MIDI tab for channel/bank and other external midi controller enabling 10 MOTIONAL SURROUND 11 COMMON tab 11 PART tab 11 CONTROL tab 11 EFFECTS ROUTING 12 STUDIO SET EFFECTS 13 COMP+EQ OUTPUT tab 13 CHORUS tab 13 REVERB tab 13 MASTER EQ tab 14 Regards, C Looking again at the list of MFX in the Integra-7, especially with some of the combinations, it looks to be very thorough, when combined with global reverb, chorus, and EQ. It is definitely very usable, and I could see being able to work very well within its limitations. Just for comparison, my Jupiter-50 is not 16-part multi-timbral, but you can do four MFX-type effects at the same time, plus reverb. So, for example, on an electric piano patch, you can - - EQ the sound to your taste - Dial in some of the Enhancer effect - Add a bit of Chorus to the EP - Send the sound into Auto Pan - Add a touch of Hall Reverb With the Jupiter, I've become spoiled, being able to create "Live Sets", which are a combination of up to four SuperNatural tones, which can then routed through (up to) five effects. Question for Integra-7 owners - I assume you can adjust the MIDI channel for each of the 16 parts, so that you can layer Tones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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