Using Modules Live

[Asa]

Hey all, I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on how to use modules efficiently live. At the moment I'm using a Voce V5+ in conjunction with a Burn on a shelf I constructed (pictured below, on the far right), which sits on the second tier of my stand. Whilst this works well enough, I find it takes a long time for me to set all this up, compared to my bandmates, who pretty much just plug and play.

 

It also looks rather ugly I think.

 

So if anyone has some tips on a better way to use modules live, it'd be much appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

Rig image

[timwat]

I can't see any detail in the pic you posted, but in general here's what I've learned about live rig setup:

 

1) Pre wire as much as possible. If you're going to use modules on a shelf, pre mount them with velcro, zip ties or a nail gun. Then prewire gozintos and gozoutofs with the shortest cabling appropriate for the job. Clean up the spaghetti fest with zip ties. Make a cable snake from your boards to your mixer (if you use one). Follow the Einstein principle, make thins as simple as possible but no simpler.

 

2) This is one of many advantages of rack mounting small pieces like modules and FX units. You can prewire all your small bits, quite a few less things to worry about at set up. I posted this on another thread recently where someone was asking about how to gig a half-rack piano module.

 

3) Practice your rig set up and tear down. I spend time at home setting up and tearing down my gig rig. This gets it down to rote, and I timed myself several times to cut it down to under 15 minutes, if necessary. This also means less forgetting stuff, better knowledge of what's the essential minimum I need, where I need spares to keep in the car, etc. I hear for those times when you're tearing down inebriated, it cuts down on forgetfulness too.

 

4) All of the above means no worries or anxieties in odd gig situations (small stage, weird stage location, etc.), and that means more relaxed and clearer head at downbeat.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

Tim

[opdigits]

What kind of stand are you using?

[Asa]

I can't see any detail in the pic you posted, but in general here's what I've learned about live rig setup:

 

1) Pre wire as much as possible. If you're going to use modules on a shelf, pre mount them with velcro, zip ties or a nail gun. Then prewire gozintos and gozoutofs with the shortest cabling appropriate for the job. Clean up the spaghetti fest with zip ties. Make a cable snake from your boards to your mixer (if you use one). Follow the Einstein principle, make thins as simple as possible but no simpler.

 

2) This is one of many advantages of rack mounting small pieces like modules and FX units. You can prewire all your small bits, quite a few less things to worry about at set up. I posted this on another thread recently where someone was asking about how to gig a half-rack piano module.

 

3) Practice your rig set up and tear down. I spend time at home setting up and tearing down my gig rig. This gets it down to rote, and I timed myself several times to cut it down to under 15 minutes, if necessary. This also means less forgetting stuff, better knowledge of what's the essential minimum I need, where I need spares to keep in the car, etc. I hear for those times when you're tearing down inebriated, it cuts down on forgetfulness too.

 

4) All of the above means no worries or anxieties in odd gig situations (small stage, weird stage location, etc.), and that means more relaxed and clearer head at downbeat.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

Tim

Thanks for the advice!

 

What kind of stand are you using?

The infamous X stand

[opdigits]

You could add a 3rd tier shelf and do all the velcro magic, or some x stands have shelf systems you can add that stick out the side.

 

If your boards have space you can velcro the modules in handy positions sometimes.

 

Some mic stands have shelf options too which allow you to place a module or two in an accessible spot.

 

If you work your voce drawbars much I'd consider placement (velcroing) direct to the keyboard as the most ergonomic solution, if you are able.

[Sven Golly]

You could add a 3rd tier shelf and do all the velcro magic, or some x stands have shelf systems you can add that stick out the side.

 

If you look at the image the OP linked to, he's only using a single keyboard, with the shelf holding the two modular pieces on a piece of wood on the 2nd tier.

 

Tim's advice is spot on perfect.

[Moonglow]

I used a V5 for several years and placed it on some open real estate on one of my keyboards. The Leslie sim I was using at the time (Spin II) was on the floor. This configuration may not improve your set-up time, but if there is enough said space on your keyboard (?) it would provide a more streamlined appearance.

[opdigits]

You could add a 3rd tier shelf and do all the velcro magic, or some x stands have shelf systems you can add that stick out the side.

 

If you look at the image the OP linked to, he's only using a single keyboard, with the shelf holding the two modular pieces on a piece of wood on the 2nd tier.

 

Tim's advice is spot on perfect.

Reread the OP.

[stoken6]

One idea I use that may be useful here: as well as velcro/cable-ties to loom the cables together - run ALL cables to a central point and back out. That gives you a single fan/snake/loom of cables to manage. For me that central point is my pedals - even a simple MIDI connection from board 1 to board to goes down to my pedals and back up.

 

I've colo(u)r-coded all my connections so I set my boards up, and simply grab the "tails" end of my loom and plug in each connection. I don't have to think "right, MIDI, so one end is, uh, MIDI out from my lower board, which is, let me see...oh, it's here, and the other end..."

 

Another possibility is to pre-mount keyboard, Burn and drawbars on a single plywood shelf and put the whole lot into a larger case (Are you using a 61 at the moment? It's difficult to see from the pic. If so, an 88 case could probably take the lot).

 

You might even be able to prewire the board, Burn and drawbars together on the shelf inside the case. This is reminiscent of J. Dan's "modular workstation" idea - this sound engine + this controller + this effects unit.

 

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Tobias Åslund]

A prewired board is the key! You could get a pedalboard case, like guitarists are using and place V5 and Burn there. The Mike's tip is great with color coding. I use labels on the connectors instead, but color coding might be even easier.

 

Here's a pic of my rig with all my gadgets. I realize it's not the most tidy cable arrangement you ever saw, but everything on the top shelf at least are prewired. There are a two "snakes" coming from the "pedalboard" with midi, power and audio to the two keyboards, plus a cable to my DIY halfmoon rotary speed controller (which in turn is connected to the DIY control pedal on the floor). Now, I didn't find a premade pedalboard large enough to fit all my stuff, so instead I found a used military utility case, which I use upside down - what you see on the third tier is the lid of the case. Works great for me! ...but in your case I would definitely go with a pre-made pedalboard case from Gator, SKB or similar. Velcro the Burn, the V5, plus cables and power supplies onto there and you're good to go!

 

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7104/minrigmars2013.jpg

[Sven Golly]

Reread the OP.

 

Sorry, this is unclear. Are you suggesting that I should read the OP again, and questioning my response, or are you stating that you read the OP again, and are changing your response?

 

If the former, I disagree. 1 keyboard, 1 shelf, Voce 5+, Burn, looking for a better solution, which Tim stated quite well.

[CEB]

If you can't rack this gear in a real rack because you have to have access to the control panels on these pieces of gear I know what I would do.

 

I would get pedal case like Mr Tobbe suggests. I would bolt two 2" tall post angle upward slightly about 19.5" apart into the floor of the pedalcase.

 

Then I would go to Redco.com and I would get a rack panel with all the jacks you need to custom build the patch bay you need. Redco will sell you custom labels if you need them. The back of these jacks will be permanently wired to your mounted devices.

 

You can get 1/4" mono or stereo jacks, MIDI jacks XLR male and female jacks..... Redco has whatever you need. To assemble this all you need is a screwdriver. You can a rack panel prepunched for as many as 16 connector jacks.

 

Third rack space down is mine. It has 3 XLR inputs in case I want to route a mic'd Leslie through my master keyboard send in case FOH doesn't have enough channels (hasn't happen yet but I'm ready) / a bunch of 1/4 inputs wired to my yamaha mixer that is bolted in the rack shelf, Two MIDI in jacks connected to Synth modules (one synth module has since been removed). 2 outputs to send to powered speakers and 2 XLR outputs from my DIs to go to FOH. You don't need all that crap on yours just buy a panel with 4 or 8 or how many connectors you do need, mount the jacks then screw the panel into you pedalcase. Then when it is time to set up just plug your snake in the redco rack panel and power it up and go.

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/DSCF0161.jpg

 

 

[CEB]

http://www.redco.com/Redco-RP1XX.html

 

http://www.redco.com/Redco-PM-TRS-TRS.html

 

If you talk to Chris about what you want to do he may have a way more elegant solution.

[Asa]

http://www.redco.com/Redco-RP1XX.html

 

http://www.redco.com/Redco-PM-TRS-TRS.html

 

If you talk to Chris about what you want to do he may have a way more elegant solution.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll certainly look into it.

 

Another idea I've had is to rip the keys from a cheap midi controller and build those and the Voce into a single board, with everything prewired and just a power in and audio out. Should be pretty easy to assemble, and importantly, cheap!

[AnotherScott]

Another idea I've had is to rip the keys from a cheap midi controller and build those and the Voce into a single board, with everything prewired and just a power in and audio out. Should be pretty easy to assemble, and importantly, cheap!

To me, all these rack and pedalboard references seem off the mark for a Voce and Burn. There's nothing rack-mountable there, and the Voce drawbars have to be at hand. I think what you describe here is closer to what you want, but there's no need to rip a controller apart, you could stick with the basic approach you already have. You could velcro a light 49/61 key controller and the Voce and the Burn to a plank of wood, pre-wire it with a power strip so you just have one AC and one audio able coming out as you describe, get an appropriately sized case, and just consider the entire plank to be your 2nd-tier board. Paint the plank black if you're concerned about aesthetics. This also gives you an unweighted action to play organ from (it looked to me like you were probably playing it from a weighted piano, yes?).

[Asa]

Another idea I've had is to rip the keys from a cheap midi controller and build those and the Voce into a single board, with everything prewired and just a power in and audio out. Should be pretty easy to assemble, and importantly, cheap!

To me, all these rack and pedalboard references seem off the mark for a Voce and Burn. There's nothing rack-mountable there, and the Voce drawbars have to be at hand. I think what you describe here is closer to what you want, but there's no need to rip a controller apart, you could stick with the basic approach you already have. You could velcro a light 49/61 key controller and the Voce and the Burn to a plank of wood, pre-wire it with a power strip so you just have one AC and one audio able coming out as you describe, get an appropriately sized case, and just consider the entire plank to be your 2nd-tier board. Paint the plank black if you're concerned about aesthetics. This also gives you an unweighted action to play organ from (it looked to me like you were probably playing it from a weighted piano, yes?).

Thanks for the reply, I'd imagine your suggestion would be even easier and quicker to throw together; however, I'd be concerned about damaging the Voce and Burn with that setup, since all I have right now is a 61 key gigbag, and I don't have the cash to buy another flight case. Also, since the organ is my main instrument, I'd like it to look rather smart

 

The keyboard I was using there was actually a Juno Stage belonging to the band we opened for, which has synth-action keys, so was fine for organ playing.

[Tobias Åslund]

To me, all these rack and pedalboard references seem off the mark for a Voce and Burn. There's nothing rack-mountable there, and the Voce drawbars have to be at hand.

If you look at the OP's photo, he has the current board with V5 and Burn on a shelf on the 2nd tier right in front of him. If you trade the wooden board with a pedalboard where everything is prewired, the V5 doesn't get any harder to reach, right?

[AnotherScott]

If you trade the wooden board with a pedalboard

Most pedal boards are not wide enough to use as a tier on most keyboard stands. You'd have to sit them on a plank. Once you do that, why bother with the expense and weight of the pedalboard, you can just put your stuff on the plank. He was only talking about mounting two pieces, so I don't really see the advantage of a pedalboard over a plank.

[Tobias Åslund]

Ah, but there are a couple of pedalboards that are wide enough - and they often come with/as a custom case. It also depends on the stand you're using. My old ProEl EL250 with 2nd tier EL450 upper tier can be set to almost only a foot wide.

 

...but to be honest - my two first pre-wired boards were just pieces of wood.

[Delaware Dave]

I use the Voce V5+ with the Vent in a 1 keyboard as well as a 2 keyboard configuration. I velcroed the Voce to a mouse pad and sit the Voce on top of my keyboard. With the mouse pad attached it doesnt move. 1 keyboard configuration: Midi out of keyboard to Midi in of Voce. Two keyboard configuration: Midi out of keyboard one to Midi In of keyboard two, then Midi out of keyboard two (which has MIDI merge capability) to Midi In of Voce. The audio out of Voce to Vent audio in, then the audio out of the Vent to my mixer. The Voce/Vent connections literally take two minutes to setup even with the two keyboard configuration.

 

Where my setup time was significantly reduced was when I created a pre-wired slit sheathing (the sheathing was purchased from Lowes) and put all of my audio cables in the sheathing. Because the sheathing is dark grey it is generally invisible (which addresses your ugliness issue as well). Since all of the wires are already in the sheathing it is just a matter of quickly connecting the ends.

 

klonk

[CEB]

If you trade the wooden board with a pedalboard

Most pedal boards are not wide enough to use as a tier on most keyboard stands. ....

 

Mine is. LOL!

 

This aint mine but it is a cheap case that is 40" wide.

 

You can get various sizes. Or have something custom cut by a quality case maker like Roadhawg. The idea is everything is left hooked up and connect. When you are done unplug the snake and put on the lid and it is packed ready to go to vehicle. But there are a bunch of ways to do this. Many possibly better. I have no experience with the Voce or Burn. My thing is thinking all the time how to minimize setup and teardown time. And I don't worry about weight that is what dollies and wheels are for.

 

http://www.rondomusic.com/product2510.html

 

 

[Tobias Åslund]

I actually have an old Midi Drawbar, which I think is about the same size as the V5+(?) and also a Burn - seems like they look great side by side

A V5+ would be nice to have... I had a V3 a couple of years ago, but the digital effekt just died... so I threw it away... Then the analog clonewheel engine was noisy as hell, which Voce covered by reducing the treble in all presets by at least 3 dB... anyway - it had a really nice organ sound! Warm and thick... mmm

[AnotherScott]

This aint mine but it is a cheap case that is 40" wide.

...

http://www.rondomusic.com/product2510.html

That is a nice piece, thanks for posting. Well priced, aesthetically nice, and provides plenty of protection for transport. In a sense, maybe a little overkill for just two items, but really a pretty nice solution for the OP. Though it is kind of funny that, as a device to hold a Voce and a Burn, it weighs more than a VR-09, and nearly as much as an SK1/NE4D. (Of course, those would need cases as well, but I'm a soft case person...)

 

I don't worry about weight that is what dollies and wheels are for.

There are still steps and other surfaces where wheels of are of limited value. And there are other factors... Total time (including arranging things on dollies), total # of trips, total effort just lifting things in and out of vehicles, on and off dollies, and in and out of their cases... it all adds up toward gig fatigue! Though really, so does even running a bunch of cables. That is effort worth minimizing too.