Electro Fan Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 New owner of a Kronos 61 and I want to purchase a UPS for live work. I found a previous thread discussing the need for a UPS with the Kronos, but I am looking for someone to recommend a certain brand and model number that would be effective for live use. There seems to be a wide range of features and price points, so sorting through this is a bit murky. Just last week I played an outdoor festival with my NE2 and the band tripped the power 3 times in our four song set. With the Kronos that would have been a disaster. Bill Nord Stage 3 Compact, Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Tripp-lite smartpro I own it and it works great. I think I paid around $200 new. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechEverlasting Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I really wish Korg would come up with a "Kronos-Pro" that could install all those sample headers in the sort of non-volatile flash memory the Motif XF and Kurzweil PC3K boards use. As it is I don't care how fabulous the Kronos sounds, with its long boot-up time I consider it to be useless for live performance, especially theater. (A UPS isn't much help when a viola player leans back and pulls out your IEC cord 20 seconds before the Overture.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Being in the computer networking business, I use a sizeable number of UPS. I've had best results overall with APC. Whatever you buy, be sure it has user-changeable battery (or batteries). The SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries used in small UPS service typically last only 2 or 3 years. I don't run any other gear except the keyboards on the UPS, and generally use one of the smallest APC units - rated at 280 or 300 volt amperes. In the shop, the keys are running along with some computer stuff on a larger UPS, but it doesn't have to be moved. At church, I have a Kurzweil PC361 and PC2 running from a small APC UPS, the other keyboardist has a SP-2X running from another small UPS. Gigging is usually done with a PC3, sometimes an added PC3X or the PC361. None of these take as long to boot up as a Kronos, but the time is long enough to be annoying. In the APC line, the "BackUPS" models are fine for this purpose, the higher priced "SmartUPS" models are not needed (they provide for sensing by the computer so the computer is automatically shut down if a power failure lasts longer than a couple of minutes). I have not had a recent Tripp-Lite. The one I had a few years ago did not have an easily replaceable battery. There are a lot of off-brand units available at office supply stores - some of my clients have had not very good results with them (premature failures). In current models, the least expensive 350va/200 watt model would likely do what you need: Newegg - APC small UPS It is low enough in price that a replacement battery is likely almost as expensive as the unit (by the time shipping is included). It provides three outlets that are on the UPS, plus three additional outlets that are just surge protected (for plugging in mixer, amps, etc.) Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Bill - Was going to try and get my UPS info for you prior to leaving town - as we'd talked about this, but managed to find the info online, while on the road: I use a Cyber Power 625VA unit - purchased for $65 from Best Buy. Product link: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/CyberPower+-+625VA+Battery+Back-Up+System/9926091.p;jsessionid=CEC5170068E94324D9A4C4307963DF81.bbolsp-app03-124?id=1218196445055&skuId=9926091 While Tripplite makes an excellent product (I used to work for them; still use their rack power modules, and floor based, Isobar units), a higher end / higher power UPS (thus higher priced) is probably unecessary for the application. With the Cyber Power 625 VA UPS, I have plenty of time for the Kronos to finish boot-up, then power down safely - in the event of a power outtage. I checked out lower VA models, but having the extra few minutes seemed good insurance for an additional $15 - $20. Plus, I typically run a second keyboard and small mixer when using the Kronos live. It simplifies things not to have to run two, different power strips. 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I think Allen and moodyblueskeys are right about getting a lower-cost unit; however, I do like that the tripp-lite is a 1u rack mount unit. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 That's one of many things I like about Tripplite, they're a rack friendly company; have been for years. I've owned two, 1U Isobar 12 rack power units for about 20 years. Tripplite offers tons of options in their product line. Plus their surge protection capability is legendary. 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I pulled up a desktop unit from the Tripp-Lite page. http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=743&txtModelID=3090 It's rated at 20 minutes runtime for a desktop computer system consuming 80 watts continuous. The Kronos consumes 60 watts so you should have at least 20 minutes. The Kronos is essentially a computer so getting a computer UPS makes sense. The recommendation for one with replaceable battery also sounds wise. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I really wish Korg would come up with a "Kronos-Pro" that could install all those sample headers in the sort of non-volatile flash memory the Motif XF and Kurzweil PC3K boards use. As it is I don't care how fabulous the Kronos sounds, with its long boot-up time I consider it to be useless for live performance, especially theater. (A UPS isn't much help when a viola player leans back and pulls out your IEC cord 20 seconds before the Overture.) I understand what you're going for here but I don't see it as a realistic solution. The Yamaha Motif XF takes slightly under a minute to boot. That's very close to the amount of time it takes the Kronos to boot without loading samples. So the OS on many of these modern keyboards is at the heart of the issue. The downside of Flash (besides cost) is that the time it takes to load samples can very long. I have a Nord Electro 4D and a 200MB piano takes ~ 20 minutes, as I recall. The Motif XF is faster overall but you're still looking at 30+ minutes to load up a GB of Flash. The way I use the Kronos, this would be intolerable. I have four different main setups based on different situations. These have very different sets of samples. I just load one file and all the samples and related programs/combis are loaded. You don't need to reboot. RAM can be cleared out and reloaded on the fly. Also, I am frequently working on creating new libraries and need to bring things in and out of RAM quickly and on the fly. Flash would just not work for me. One possible solution for the Kronos would be for it to include an onboard battery ala a laptop. You could place the unit in sleep mode and have nearly instant on. No need for a UPS as the battery would provide that function. Haven't thought through all of the potential issues but it seems somewhat reasonable. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I have plenty of time for the Kronos to finish boot-up, then power down safely - in the event of a power outtage. I have heard this a few of times from various posters about the need to properly shutdown the Kronos. I assume the thinking is as it's computer-based it needs to be turned off properly. I don't exactly know what happens when you flip the power switch off on the K. There does not appear to be a shutdown process--it immediately turns off. Even if you have POWER ON MODE preferences set to memorize (so that you will be placed in the exact program you were using prior to losing power), it will bring back the proper setting. These appear to be "memorized" when you switch to the program rather than during a shutdown process. I have used my K daily for two+ years and while I most often flip the unit's switch to turn it off there have been plenty of times I've switch off the mains in my studio instead and have found no issues as a result. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electro Fan Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Thanks for the great feedback. I think I am leaning towards the $50-100 range. The Tripp Lite Busch linked looked great and has a replaceable battery, but the reviews, at least on Amazon were not strong, with many having failures and smelling badly during use. The Cyber Power also seems a good choice, thanks Allen. I am not sure what the total runtime is for the Cyber Power if using the Kronos? The APC unit linked by Moodyblueskey was the least expensive and had great review, but I wonder if it is not worth spending a little more for the extra run time? Busch. I am glad to hear that you did not. experience issues when not using the power off switch. I guess my big concern is tripping the power when the Kronos is rebooting on start up. Nord Stage 3 Compact, Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm on my second APC, so I'm a convert. I had my old one kick in perfectly several times, so its a must-have. Beware "brown power" areas like mine! You can pick a model that suits you pretty readily. That added run time matters the most to your computers, including the one in the Kronos, so just eyeball your power chain accordingly. I bought a model that has user-replaceable batteries, but being rated for about 4 years' use, I suspect a starting date taped on the UPS would keep you well within its happy zone. At this point, every child should be issued a UPS, $1000 in savings bonds, a taser and a King Korg at birth. "I like that rapper with the bullet in his nose!" "Yeah, Bulletnose! One sneeze and the whole place goes up!" ~ "King of the Hill" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electro Fan Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Update: So I was at SAM's club and saw this APC unit for a good price and decided to give it go. It seemed to have decent specs and a replaceable battery. Opinions welcomed before I open the box. http://m.samsclub.com/ip/apc-bn600mc-battery-backup-with-surge-protection/prod4850543 Thanks, Bill Nord Stage 3 Compact, Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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