TouchKeys

[James Fry]

I haven't seen anything about this on here yet (but I might have missed it) - someone has finally had a go at producing a multitouch keyboard, albeit with overlays that stick onto existing keys.

 

Three point (with contact area), left/right, key-length position sensing - looks like it is the missing link for synth players trying to get more expressive control capabilities? Maybe we'll get it fully integrated into keys at some point rather than relying on bolt-ons!

 

 

[J. Dan]

If you play the keys on the iPad screen in the AniMoog app, sliding your finger up and down on the key will change the sound. Not sure it's mappable, and playing virtual keys on an iPad sucks.

 

Still, that's a novel idea.

[Synthoid]

Still, that's a novel idea.

 

True, although I'm not too excited about anything that involves "peel and stick."

 

 

 

[Phred]

His shirt makes me laugh. But because I am a geek, I had to figure out what it said. I struggled trying to read it, but I got it. Groaner.

 

If you already know or don't care, read below, but stop if you want to figure it your yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

E/C2 = M (from E = MC2)

sqroot of -1 = i

pV/nR = T (I had to look this one up. The Ideal Gas Law ( PV = nRT )

[Synthoid]

Guess I'm just tired but all that went right over my head.

 

[Phred]

. Basically it says MIT. And each letter is derived by 'well known' math formulas. Well known for math geeks that is.

 

 

[BernMeister]

Maybe we'll get it fully integrated into keys at some point rather than relying on bolt-ons!

 

This is the kind of control that is the most natural of all. I never really liked polyphonic aftertouch.

 

I believe this technology will mature quickly; I give it a couple of years, maybe less, and all keyboards (at least the higher-priced ones) will be manufactured this way.

[iLaw]

Interesting, but even if the "peel and stick" mess is eliminated (by incorporating the sensors into the surface of the key) I'm still not liking the ergonomics.

 

The portion of a white key falling between black keys is difficult for many fingers to access and prone to errors even if you can get up there. Playing pretty much anything with your hands pushed up to the fall board is doomed to failure with traditional keyboard design and key spacing. Yet the white key space up there would become as important as the parallel key top space on the black keys in this system.

 

I started thinking about how to solve this problem and, frankly, all roads seemed to be leading back to a Haken Continuum concept. Even if you want a tactile or visual cue to help find the "black keys" on a Continuum, the design challenges seem much simpler then trying to figure out how our fatter-fingered colleagues are going to do the same fluent pitch bending or filter control on an A as they can do on an Ab with this TouchKeys technology.

 

Larry.

 

[Dave The Rave]

Unfortunately, I think this Kickstarter will fail to reach its goal and NOT go forward unless some more people sign up fast. He really needs to get it sold/licensed to one or more of the big keyboard companies so they can integrate it into the keys properly. Nevertheless, I think I'm going to sign up for a set of 88 to stick onto my good old K2600XS.....

 

Dave F.

[J. Dan]

Interesting, but even if the "peel and stick" mess is eliminated (by incorporating the sensors into the surface of the key) I'm still not liking the ergonomics.

 

The portion of a white key falling between black keys is difficult for many fingers to access and prone to errors even if you can get up there. Playing pretty much anything with your hands pushed up to the fall board is doomed to failure with traditional keyboard design and key spacing. Yet the white key space up there would become as important as the parallel key top space on the black keys in this system.

 

I started thinking about how to solve this problem and, frankly, all roads seemed to be leading back to a Haken Continuum concept. Even if you want a tactile or visual cue to help find the "black keys" on a Continuum, the design challenges seem much simpler then trying to figure out how our fatter-fingered colleagues are going to do the same fluent pitch bending or filter control on an A as they can do on an Ab with this TouchKeys technology.

 

Larry.

 

I suppose you could set up scaling on a key by key basis. So maybe all the black keys and B's, C's, E's, and F's use the whole key, but the other keys are scaled to reach their max value before you get into the region between the black keys. Or scale it however you prefer. Basically, that would require 12 individual scalings that would repeat for each octave.

[Synthoid]

. Basically it says MIT. And each letter is derived by 'well known' math formulas. Well known for math geeks that is.

 

Makes sense now, thanks. I was having a low blood sugar moment last night.

 

 

[AndrewM]

Hi everyone, Andrew (TouchKeys creator) here; hope you don't mind my jumping in. First, I just posted a new video and project update looking at polyphonic aftertouch and classic synth sounds, which you might be interested in:

 

http://kck.st/17GHkpL

 

The ergonomics question is really important and interesting. There's a lot to be said for designs like the Continuum where every note has a similar shape, but what I was after with the TouchKeys is something that is immediately familiar to a keyboardist, so there's not much relearning required. That's what led to the hardware setup (standard key layout) but it also informs how the sensor data is processed.

 

As an example: in the beginning of the video above, I use relative vertical motion for polyphonic aftertouch. The fingers can fall where they need to, and it's the motion afterwards that triggers the aftertouch. (Same idea for pitch bends.) In this case, you only have to move about half the key length to get the full aftertouch value. This partly addresses issues like getting between the black keys. There's no reason the mappings couldn't do what JustDan says, and scale differently per key. The software will be open-source so there's plenty of potential to add and try things.

 

Really curious to hear any other ideas. Obviously I want and intend for this project to fund so we can get these instruments out there, but also, questions of playability and ergonomics are important for my instrument research. Feedback appreciated!

 

P.S. on the adhesive: it's high-quality industrial stuff (3M 4658F), with the nice property is that it's strong and durable but leaves no residue. I installed the TouchKeys for about a month on an acoustic grand piano at a conservatory then removed them cleanly. The piano techs would have had my head if we'd left a mess on the keys!

[martinjosef]

The toush keyboard is good idea. But it needs some develpment to be successful. The speed may be affected with such touch pad.

[BernMeister]

Hi Andrew,

 

I'm all for what you're doing. However, I'd like to eventually see this technology embedded into each key (if that's possible), so that the electronics are not physically or visually apparent.

 

I look forward to your next update. Great work!

[AndrewM]

Okay, here's the latest project update:

 

http://kck.st/17B5vaj

 

There's a video at the link of some electric piano improvisations on the TouchKeys. The idea is that the vibrato and pitch bends are there when you want them but stay out of the way of standard piano technique the rest of the time.

 

At this point, there's no easy way to put the sensors into the keys themselves (that takes a new factory process, lots of time and cost), but it's worth pointing out that the sensors will be a brighter white than you see in the videos, making a better match to the keyboard they're installed on. See link above for more.

[AndrewM]

Here's the latest: Jordan Rudess, keyboard wizard with Dream Theater and grand master of new keyboards, plays the TouchKeys!

 

[Bucktunes]

Hi Andrew! I haven't posted on this subject until now, just because I have no suggestions to contribute. Just wanted to chime in to say I'm rooting for you because I love this idea and I hope you can bring it to market. I've been pining for poly aftertouch for decades, but it looks like this could actually be an improvement. I see it as a "best of both worlds" kind of a solution - the expressiveness of something like a Haken Continuum that can be added to a keyboard that's already comfortable.

 

Sorry if you've mentioned it and I've overlooked it, but do you have any idea how much I'd expect to spend on one of these? I'd be interested in 61, 73, and 88 key versions. Thanks in advance!

[icarusi]

Does Touchkeys remap the board when bending, so that the whole board isn't transposed each time a bend is used?

[AndrewM]

Thanks a lot Steve! A big part of the motivation has been to build something with new expressive capability that's easier to learn because it already acts like a regular keyboard. Glad that comes through.

 

Here's the campaign link with the pricing. It runs one more week, through September 2nd: TouchKeys Multi-Touch Keyboard

 

The latest news is that if you're outside the EU (or hold a valid EU VAT ID), I can issue you a refund after the campaign on the VAT which is included in the price. That works out to be 16% off. So for example a 61-key set will run £655 (with shipping) outside the EU. 73 keys is £795, 88 keys is £930 outside the EU. Details here.

 

@icarusi: there are a few options. The usual way (also used by the Continuum and similar instruments) is to give each note its own MIDI channel so the bend affects one note only. This is what I use in all my demos. Another way that can work is to send polyphonic aftertouch messages on one channel, provided the synth can make sense of them.

[AndrewM]

Here's the latest video:

 

I'm using virtual instruments from Sample Modeling which I find quite realistic in their sound. Normally you'd play these instruments with one hand on the pitch and mod wheels, but it's all controllable from the key surfaces here, which in principle leaves one hand free to play another line (e.g. a bass).

 

4 days left in the Kickstarter campaign, and it has passed its funding target. So I'll definitely be moving forward on making these instruments!

[AndrewM]

Last day of the campaign! And here's the last video of the campaign, though definitely not the last video overall (look out for more videos between now and January ship date):

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

Last day of the campaign! And here's the last video of the campaign, though definitely not the last video overall (look out for more videos between now and January ship date):

 

 

I have to admit, this one is pretty good.

 

Have you worked out a technique for volume swells? Example: You start a note at a low volume by bowing slowly, then ramp up the loudness by increasing the bow speed.