OT: Poll: Bush Regime Most Corrupt in History?

[Philter]

Damn it Dubya, it was area code 999 for God, not 666! Spell it out man! Do you know who's drumbeat you've been marching to? I'll give you a hint: hear that fiddle a playin'?

[whitefang]

I'm going to bump this with a likely thinly related vent. It has to do with Iraq.

 

Let me run down a brief cronology of events as I understand, or MIS-understand them...

 

Bush presses Saddam to come clean about weapons of mass destruction. Saddam claims not to have any, but resists having UN inspectors come in and prove it.

 

Finally, UN inspectors come in and look around. They DO find some missles and destroy them, but claim the warheads they found were niether nuclear, nor biological.

 

All biological agents discovered were nowhere near missle sites, and much have degenerated to uselessness. Bush doesn't seem to care, and before the alloted inspection time is up, proposes to invade Iraq to ferret out the WMD's he insists exist.

 

After the invasion of Iraq, and the subsequent toppling of Saddam from power, WMD's have yet to be found. In spite of this fact, the occaision of toppling Saddam takes on extraordinary proportions. Now, nobody seems to CARE that the primary objective was to discover and destroy a cache of WMD's. Saddam was removed from power. And the Iraqi people need no longer suffer under the thumb of such a ruthless and bloodthirsty tyrant! Bring up the WMD fact to ANY Bushbuddy, and the liberation of the long-suffering Iraqiis will be the first thing to come out of their mouths. And they'll INSIST you all hail the man who brought freedom to the suffering masses in Iraq!

 

And THAT, my friends, is my peeve.

 

To those here who would use that arguement while discussing the Iraq war, I ask you this...

 

Just how many times, BEFORE the unprovoked invasion, did ANY of you sit wringing your hands in despair over the plight of Iraqi citizens suffering at the hands of such a bloodthirsty devil? Yeah, I THOUGHT as much!

 

Yes, I'm willing to bet the house that NOBODY out there praising Bush for the Iraqi liberation GAVE two FUCKS for how much suffering was going on over there. So...

 

SHUT THE FUCK UP about it already! Your hapless devotion to Bush, and your over abundant hipocrasy is BLINDING!

 

Whitefang

[Peake]

Bush loves the Iraqi people. Just as much as he loves the North Korean people. And the Tibetan people. And the Cuban people. And the millions of his own citizens living in poverty, and unemployed, and the record number of personal bankruptcies, and...

 

None of them have any oil. And a built-in cheap labor force to harvest the oil.

 

Here is something you might not know about.

 

"An obscure executive order penned by President Bush in May exempting U.S. oil companies doing business in Iraq from criminal or civil penalties has raised concerns among several advocacy groups.

 

The broadly worded Executive Order 13303, published May 22, exempts these companies from prosecution even for human rights, environmental destruction, or government bribery charges, reports Lisa Girion in The Los Angeles Times.

 

"As written, the executive order appears to cancel the rule of law for the oil industry or anyone else who gets possession or control of Iraqi oil or anything of value related to Iraqi oil," said Tom Devine of the Washington-based Government Accountability Project."

 

http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_specials_2003-08/articles/10735-1.html

 

Here is the link:

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030522-15.html

 

Note this text:

 

"This situation constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat."

 

A national emergency!? Why wasn't it screamed about in all of the media? They love drama and tension. It's as good as a "terror alert" color change, isn't it?

 

Follow the money.

[Saint Johnny B]

The evil anti-Christ Bait and Switch Bush never gave 2 cents about the Iraqi people. In fact, Bait and Switch Bush does not give 2 cents about the American people.

 

But Bait and Switch Bush loves the bin Laden family. Money, oil, and...err...funny business you know. Most of us call it fraud, deception, and obstruction of justice, all high crimes and misdemeanors worthy of impeachment and imprisonment. Jail the bastard.

 

Hey, but what do expect from those in the American Criminal Enterprise Insitute? More worldwide crime, of course.

 

That link above shows it all.

[Chuck Moore]

So how many people has Bush liberated so far today??? I hear it's over 40 million......

[Philter]

Originally posted by Chuck Moore:

So how many people has Bush liberated so far today??? I hear it's over 40 million......

I don't know about that, but I do know that 9 US servicemen died when their Black Hawk was shot down today, and another died and 34 were injured in a mortar attack yesterday. These deaths and the 400+ others would have been avoided had Bush not chosen to fabricate evidence, lie to the US public, and invade Iraq without any sort of plan for the future.

[Peake]

I wish Bush loved the Iranian people the same way he loves the Iraqis. The Iranians only need a measly $73million to survive. Too bad the red cross wasn't a Bush campaign contributor or they'd have a tap on the Treasury.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040109/wl_nm/quake_iran_un_dc_2

 

Then Bush can liberate the Cubans, the Tibetans, the US citizens living in poverty without health care... He loves us all and will liberate us all.

[Philter]

What's Dubya doing to help the Ethiopeans today?

 

Oh, nothing? How's that? I thought he was all humanitarian and shit. What's that you say? He's just a cynical liar? Oh, I see.

[Peake]

And the North Koreans. Plenty of evil despots to knock over.

 

He can sign an executive order calling a national emergency about them too.

 

If only they had oil, they'd be saved by now.

[Saint Johnny B]

That'd be even funnier if it were not so true.

[Philter]

So Chuck, why is it that it's only the Iraqis that we "rescued" and not any of the millions of other people living under repressive regimes?

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Chuck Moore:

So how many people has Bush liberated so far today??? I hear it's over 40 million......

Chuck, you are so dense.

 

Did you answer Philter's question?

 

Did you really give two FUCKS about the plight of the Iraqi people before the war?

Oh - that's right - you're just chanting pro-Bush mantras now. Anything to save face for your hero.

 

This war was never about "liberating" the Iraqi people.

 

That's just a convenient excuse for Dubya, now that he has no smoking gun (other than the one he fired)

[antimatter]

Anyone see 'The Outlaw Josey Wales?'

 

Remember Fletcher and Captain Red Legs Terrill are after Josey, and having a real tough time trying. They're about to cross the river and Terrill says something about "we get Wales and then we'll get the other ones".

Fletcher is pissed "Other ones? After Wales, I'm done, finished!, the end!"

Terrill responds "doin' right ain't got no end!"

 

or something like that.

 

I think Bush wants to be Josey Wales, but he's really Red Legs Terrill.

[the stranger]

How many signs of corruption does the media have to show before somebody starts to care?

 

The undisputed facts just keep piling up, yet nobody is demanding any legal action.

 

Here's the scoop people:

 

Clinton was just as shifty as George. Clinton got railroaded for it.

George just keeps strolling along making Bill look like some second rate wanna be.

Exactly how many acts of impropriety does George need to commit before he is treated in the manner Bill was?

 

Lie about a blowjob? Impeachment

Lie about a war, a devastated economy, his connections, and all manner of issues? High approval ratings.

 

What is wrong with this picture?

[Mats Olsson.]

1. It appears that the Bush Administration has consistently misled the American public about Iraq , most significantly regarding Saddam Hussein's possession of weapons of mass destruction and his ties to al Queda and Osama bin Laden.

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/beyond-niger.html

 

2. The Bush Administration's regressive environmental policies have lowered cleanliness standards for our air and water while allowing utility companies (many of whom are Bush campaign contributors) to profit off of the weakened regulations. In 2002, the head of the EPA's Office of Regulatory Enforcement resigned, complaining that the agency was fighting a White House that seems determined to weaken the rules we are trying to enforce." (CNN, Aug. 22, 2002)

The Bush Record on the Environment for 2003:

http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2003.asp

 

3. Bush is underfunding education. The President cut $200 million from his own No Child Left Behind Act, eliminating crucial educational programs for lower income children and cutting professional training for more than 20,000 teachers.

 

Flawed from its very foundation, No Child Left Behind is based on then-Governor Bush's late-90s Texas Miracle,a program of standardized testing designed to increase performance and reduce dropout rates--now recognized as a scandalous failure.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0338/schanberg.php

 

4. The Bush Administration's Patriot Act threatens our constitutional rights and civil liberties. Passed by a post 9/11 Congress, the Patriot act expands the ability of law enforcement to conduct secret searches, and engage various forms of surveillance, including internet monitoring and wiretapping. It gives the FBI access to American citizens' highly personal medical, financial, mental health, and student records without notification or permission, and allows them to investigate individuals without probable cause of a crime. Finally, it permits non-citizens to be jailed based on mere suspicion and held indefinitely in six month increments without meaningful judicial review.

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207

 

5. Bush's Tax Cuts only benefit the rich. Bush claimed that his tax cut would reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax. He failed to mention that this relief program would put half of the tax cut's dividends into the hands of our nation's wealthiest 5%, while 8.1 million citizens in the bottom half of the income bracket receive approximately $300 a year.

http://www.ctj.org/html/gwbfinal.htm

 

6. 3.3 million jobs (93,000 in August of 2003 alone) have been lost since Bush took office--more than the last 11 Presidents combined. (Bureau of Labor Statistics, June 2001-August 2003) Meanwhile, huge corporations are paying fewer taxes than ever:

http://www.cbpp.org/10-16-03tax.htm

 

7. Bush is underfunding homeland security : While energetic in waging war abroad, the Bush administration has been oddly lethargic in fortifying our defenses at home. Domestic security agencies have been neglected. Police and firefighters have been denied essential resources, and muddled public strategy has only spread alarm and confusion.

http://www.ppionline.org/

 

Source: http://www.bushin30seconds.org/aboutbush.html

 

/Mats

[Chuck Moore]

hmmmmm seems the only thing that gets 'yall madder than Bush doing something wrong is him doing something RIGHT

[Philter]

Originally posted by Chuck Moore:

hmmmmm seems the only thing that gets 'yall madder than Bush doing something wrong is him doing something RIGHT

What was it that he did right? I forgot.

[Peake]

He got people scared enough to shout down Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, the Dixie Chicks and others when they dared use their constitutional powers of free speech. I wonder if they're using the new powers of Patriot Act 2...

[antimatter]

But man can he dance!

 

Dancing Bush

[Chuck Moore]

HA HA HA HA HA

The dancing Bush is about the funniest thing I've seen all day. Especially like the moonwalk. Thanks man for lightening the mood a 'lil.

[Griffinator]

Well, that's two of Philter's questions you completely avoided, Chuck.

[Chuck Moore]

sheeeeeesh so much for lightening the mood.

ohh, and I would avoid answering yours too, if you actually asked one.

The whole thing was just a stab back at the incessant "How much did Bush steal today" nonsense. No, of course we can't free all the opressed peoples of the world, at least not all at once. The spread of democracy has, however, been a goal of American Presidents for a century or better. Spreading democracy to arab countries is, in my opinion, the ONLY way to effectively stop terrorism. Iraq is the start of that process. Weather it will work or not is yet to be seen, but a free and democratic Iraq is certainly worth the effort. That is unless you believe Arabs are not worthy of freedom, or capable of democracy. Aside from all the high minded stuff, we ARE in a war. It is sound military stratagy to be the one who chooses the battlefield. Iraq is a far better place to engage the enemy than New York. And make no mistake, we ARE fighting terrorists there. Al Quida fighters have streamed into the country steadily since the war began, thugs that will be facing our miliary instead of sneaking in to attack our civillians.

[GZsound]

You know I have been thinking. I honestly didn't question Bush Sr. when we went to Iraq the first time. I presumed Iraq had attacked Kuwait.

 

As much as I disliked the lack of character of Bill Clinton, I really didn't question him when he attacked Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

 

He said he had proof that Bin Laden and Al Queda were in a terror training camp and he threw 25 cruise missles into an aspirin factory. But I never really questioned his motives or the intelligence reports he must have gotten.

 

I didn't question him when he and the British bombed Iraq in 1998 because of reports of WMD. I took it for granted his intelligence was good.

 

How about an honest answer..if that is possible, from you liberal Bush haters..

 

Did any of you honestly question the reasons for these attacks at the time? Am I the only one that has trusted our intelligence blindly for many, many years?

 

Remember this is the same CIA and FBI that was giving Clinton reports on Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq..plus who knows where else.

 

Shouldn't we be questioning our "intelligence" agencies instead of whatever administration is acting on their misinformation?

 

Can we be honest here? (Johnny, you don't need to reply).

[alcohol_]

GZ,

 

I did have questions about Bush sr. freeing Kuwait, especially because it seemed like the US gave the green light for Saddam to take over Kuwait in their oil field disputes. It looked like the US setup Saddam; but in the end I gave Bush sr. the benefit of the doubt and I supported the first Persian Gulf war. I did think it imprudent not to go after Saddam when we portrayed him as being so evil.

 

I supported the Nato sponsored military actions in Kosovo because the reports of genocide were solid, and I support military action to stop genocide.

 

I initially supported the Iraq trade sanctions of the Clinton administration but when recognizing that the sanctions led to deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children because of malnutrition and lack of medical supplies I changed my mind and opposed that policy.

 

I questioned the Clinton cruise missile bombing of the pharmacy, because despite Clinton administration claims to the contrary, reports were significant and insistent that intelligence about the pharmacy being a bomb factory were incorrect.

 

I initially supported the recent Bush invasion of Iraq until I found out he rationalized it to us on the basis of forged documents.

 

Nevertheless, whether one supports or didn't question a past policy it does not invalidate legitimate criticism of the current Iraq invasion and Bush's deceit of incompetence. The Invasion of Iraq is such a significantly greater military action than throwing cruise missiles that comparing the Clinton bombing of a pharmacy to the wholesale invasion of Iraq is such an obvious begged question, one would wonder why it would even be asked.

[Mats Olsson.]

Mark, I did not question USA's involvment in former Yugoslavia although I still feel sick when I think of the hospital that got bombed. USA was part of a united international community trying to bring peace to the area after years of civil war.

 

I did definitely question what Clinton did in Somalia and other places. The medicin plant that got bombed was never rebuilt and hundreds of thousands of people have been severly affected or died because of the bombing. There was no other medicin factory nearby and neither infrastructure or economy to make imports of medicin existed/exists there. It was a really bad thing to do and it it was/is extremely tragic that the place never got rebuilt by USA, shameful really.

Actions like these feed terrorism.

 

USA and UK also conducted many many air strikes on Iraq after the gulf war and before the current occupation - most of which was not at all justified IMO. Actions like these feed terrorism.

 

The Kurds was promised a lot of help after the Gulf war but was totally left behind. Same thing happened to another group of people that went against Saddam if I remember it correctly, (and of course Saddam made their lifes even more miserable than it already was). Not honoring such promises feeds terrorism.

 

/Mats

[Griffinator]

Mark - I've been questioning our policies in the Middle East for years now.

 

I didn't question Yugoslavia because that was, indeed, a multinational effort. Something had to be done, and the world agreed on it.

 

Iraq, OTOH, is a completely different story. We turned a blind eye to the plight of the Kurds when it happened. George Sr. not only refused sanctions against Iraq, but ridiculed those who called for them after the gas attacks.

 

You're still forgetting that we gave him those WMD's and the technology to produce them. That's the first place we screwed up.

[whitefang]

Gosh, GZ, I thought Clinton WASN'T the President anymore...

 

And I can't recall, but what did Clinton say he was doing all that for? Did he give any other excuse? did he change his story afterwards?

 

The point is, as I was trying to get across, was that all the Bushbuddies who supported the invasion of Iraq for the purpose of WEAPONS, are NOW going along with how good a thing it was for freeing the Iraqi people. But, NONE of those same Bushbuddies GAVE A SHIT about the suppression of Iraqi people BEFOREHAND. Or, if they did, they were uncommonly SILENT about it.

 

Take a little time to both read, AND comprehend.

 

Whitefang

[Saint Johnny B]

Even if Clintin was a corrupt jerk, that is now irrelevant and certainly no excuce for Bush and Cheney's crimes.

 

Is it "non-sense" for Bush and Cheney to waste, fraudulently divert, and steal trillions of dollars. For one to blithely discount such massive theft can only mean that they are benefiting directly from it or are already rich. For most average Americans, this massive fraud, self-dealing, and corruption eminating from the darkend corners of a White House office, is both important and sickening. Only an immoral, amoral, or brain dead person could defend the Bush Crime Family.

[Saint Johnny B]

How much did the Bush Crime Family steal today?

[Peake]

Mark, there is a vast difference of scale between Clinton's anything and the invasion of Iraq. Most notably 5000+ dead Iraqi civilians, continuing deaths of US soldiers, and a nice National Emergency:

 

"An obscure executive order penned by President Bush in May exempting U.S. oil companies doing business in Iraq from criminal or civil penalties has raised concerns among several advocacy groups.

 

The broadly worded Executive Order 13303, published May 22, exempts these companies from prosecution even for human rights, environmental destruction, or government bribery charges, reports Lisa Girion in The Los Angeles Times.

 

"As written, the executive order appears to cancel the rule of law for the oil industry or anyone else who gets possession or control of Iraqi oil or anything of value related to Iraqi oil," said Tom Devine of the Washington-based Government Accountability Project."

 

http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_specials_2003-08/articles/10735-1.html

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030522-15.html

 

"This situation constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat."

 

Clinton is gone. Bush is current, and needs to be questioned regarding these actions and their motivations. No subject changes to Clinton.