stratcat2k Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Hi, everyone. I need some help with an issue I have with my Hot Rod DeVille 4x10. The deal is that I bought a used late 2000's Hot Rod DeVille from a friend that runs a guitar store and I'm pretty sure he took good care of it. I took it to rehearsal yesterday and played it for about 2 and half hours; I ran a Dean Soltero loaded with Seymour Duncans into a Vox Joe Satriani Satchurator pedal and a Dunlop Crybaby Wah. We were doing a demo, so the studio guy ran a line from the Preamp Out to the mixing board with a standard instrument cable. I played through the clean channel set on about 3, and a little reverb and presence. I would get this distorted sound from the amp (on 3 in the clean channel), where I would expect a fairly pristine clean sound (allowing for the relative effect of the hot SD pickups). In addition, engaging the Drive channel and More Drive (without any overdrive pedal), it sounded really flabby and "farty". Towards the end, when I would switch on the Vox overdrive the volume would drop. So, at the end of the rehearsal, the amp just dies. It turns off completely, no light, no power, no sound, no nothing; just completely dead. I call my buddy who sold it and he said I might have blown the output transformer because I ran a line from the preamp out to the board, despite the fact that the manual says that is precisely one of its functions. So I bring it home, to take to the shop on Monday to get it checked out. Just out of curiosity I plugged it in the next day and, lo and behold, it switched on and worked. It still had the same distorsion problems on the clean channel (using a different guitar). Can someone help me out on what this might be, so I don't get screwed by the repair shop guys? It would seem that the distorsion issue and the amp failure issue are due to different problems, but I have NO clue, as this is only my second tube amp in all my life (six months ago I had bought a Peavey 6505+ 1x12 combo, which I sold to buy the Hot Rod, because I play mostly blues and blues based hard rock and I could not get into the amp's distorsion and relative lack of clean headroom, but it never gave me ANY issues at all). I really appreciate all the help you can give! Regards - Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I used to have a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12", myself... We were doing a demo, so the studio guy ran a line from the Preamp Out to the mixing board with a standard instrument cable. You did still have the speakers connected like usual while running out of the Preamp-Out, right? Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 The first thing I would try is swapping tubes - pretty much any 12AX7 types (easy to find) will do for a check providing they are known to be good (I don't mean to leave those substitute tubes in place - just to swap them to see if they make a difference). You need a pair of 6L6's to check out the power section - those may be a tad more difficult to lay hands on, or not - depends where you are. Doing this (and it's pretty easy) will at least demonstrate if it's one (or more) of the tubes in the amp that's the problem. Obviously, if all remains the same with different tubes, then it's something else, and that's going to need an amp tech. Good luck. G. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 You did the right thing by posting your question and getting an answer from Myles and you probably do need to go to the shop. I'll throw in a little 2cents worth of free internet comments that should not cause you any additional problems...if you don't trust the guys in the shop, you might think about finding another shop. I have a Hot Rod 410 and would suggest that the next time you're in the studio, have the guy mic the amp instead of using the pre-amp out (which I believe it's use is mainly for an effects loop). The neat thing about having a tube amp is you can check the tubes and buy new ones and sometimes avoid taking the amp to the shop. I have access to a tube checker and the 1st thing I would do is check and replace any bad tubes. If you replace the power tubes it will need to go to the shop and have the bias checked and reset. These are the two 6L6's which should be ordered as a matched set. The rest of the 12AX7's if bad, can be replaced and avoid having to go to the shop. If the tubes all check good, you'll have to take her in to find the problem. If you don't have access to a tube checker, you may has well take her in as Myles advised. Before doing anything, with the power off and the amp unplugged reach in and see if the tubes are all snug in their sockets, a loose tube can cause all kinds of issues and would be the 1st thing to look for. It sounds like you heard the amp the whole time it was plugged in at the studio so I'm pretty sure you or the studio man did not unplug the speakers. Check the speaker plug and make sure it's plugged in all the way. Also, check the amp with the footswitch in and out of line using the amp switches. Since the power came back on when you got the amp back home, and it died in the studio, there may have been a power circut problem at the studio. Lack of sufficient power due to overloaded circuts can cause your pedals to have problems as well. Even if there are no power problems at the studio, pedals can cause major issues if you have a loose power supply or patch cables or a bad pedal. So when checking for amp problems, make sure to take all your pedals out of line and check your guitar chord as well as changing guitars...just a few ideas that you might try before taking her in to the shop... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Andy, BEFORE you do anything to the amp, if you've only had it a short while, haven't abused the amp or loaned it to someone else who might have, and these problems have developed, TAKE IT BACK TO THE GUY YOU BOUGHT IT FROM. Demonstrate the problem to him, tell him all the stuff you wrote here, and ask what he'll do about it. If he really is a friend and a decent merchant, he'll get it checked out. chances are he has a tech guy on staff or has access to one at reasonable rates. There have been problems with that whole series of amps that pop up from time to time. Mostly, they're not much trouble, but they sure ain't trouble free. Running a line from the preamp out wouldn't cause the amp to mess up unless there was a sticky connection that didn't let go when you pulled the plug back out, and I don't know what that would do if it didn't cut off the signal to the power amp, and shut off all sound coming out of the amp. I'm not a heavy tech guy, but I can't see why your amp would shut down because of that. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Andy, BEFORE you do anything to the amp, if you've only had it a short while, haven't abused the amp or loaned it to someone else who might have, and these problems have developed, TAKE IT BACK TO THE GUY YOU BOUGHT IT FROM. Demonstrate the problem to him, tell him all the stuff you wrote here, and ask what he'll do about it. Good advice- ESPECIALLY if the amp is still under warranty. However, if you ran it without its speakers connected (or without a suitable "dummy load" in lieu of speakers)- even though the Preamp Out was connected- THAT could not only damage the amp, it could also have voided the warranty... Best of luck, and keep us posted! Let us know how you make out with that. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratcat2k Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hey everyone, thanks for all the advice! The amp's speakers were connected the entire time the line to the preamp out was connected. In any case, I took the amp back to my buddy and he'll have his amp tech look at it and he'll honor the warranty. I guess I'll be out an amp for a couple of weeks, but at least the rehearsal hall guys have some Fender Frontman amps you can borrow and I can use my PODxT in a pinch. Not quite the same, I know, but close enough in the meantime. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p90jr Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I used to have a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12", myself... We were doing a demo, so the studio guy ran a line from the Preamp Out to the mixing board with a standard instrument cable. You did still have the speakers connected like usual while running out of the Preamp-Out, right? THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!! Without seeing the speaker load the output transformer would've fried or at least heated up!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Glad to hear that things are better than they might have been! Keep us posted on how that works out and what turns out to have been the trouble with the amp! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p90jr Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I have a Tweed Deville 4 x 10" that I used heavily for about 10 years. I would blow fuses a lot in clubs where the power was shaky (New Orleans... a mass electrical fire waiting to happen) but if that was the case here it wouldn't have come back on later. There's an issue with these amps that sometimes pops up that makes them start switching back and forth between the two channels randomly. The guy who fixes my amps used to be a licensed Fender tech so he knew exactly what to do. Still that wouldn't cause a complete failure. Best of luck with it and report back, because I'm curious. My Deville is in mothballs. Last time I decided to pull it out and use it it crapped out on the gig... maybe a preamp tube or maybe the input jack is having problems where it's soldered onto the pcb. I plugged a Tech 21 Liverpool into the "power amp in" jack and used that as a preamp and it got me through the gig fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkjimiphoton Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 sounds to me like bad solder somewhere. if the clean channel is not working, the 12ax7 farthest from the power tubes should be changed, that's the likely culprit..always suspect a tube first. but to me, it sounds more like bad solder, or a bad blocking cap in the preamp channel. sometimes they use too-low rated electrolytics in the preamp (the audio's only a couple volts, not the full b+ going to the tubes generally) and they get stressed and fail. if the amp is more than 4 or 5 years old, particularly with your description, i'd suspect either the 22u-ish cathode bypass cap of the first or second stage, or a blocking cap. when one of those fails, it can bleed dc where it should be blocked, resulting in an unusual distortion that sounds like a cross between a blown tube, a blown speaker and a ringing/rattling sound. if it's a bad cap, it's an easy fix.. often once it cools down, the caps will "heal" somewhat and the amp will come back up. but the fact the whole amp went dead is sounding more as i think about it like a bad cap in the power supply..fairly common also, and will definitely kill the whole amp if one goes leaky. take it to the guy you bought it from, and tell him "fix it". you shouldn't have to deal with this crap. http://www.sweetrelief.org/ https://www.wepay.com/donations/memorial-stone-for-juliane-pocius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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