Yamaha CP-5

[Pale]

Interface really isn't that bad once you get used to it.

 

Btw, is there a place where CP5 owners could share their presets? I don't have any , but I would gladly download some of the sounds other people have made since IMHO most of the yamaha's presets are rubbish.

[Joe Muscara]

As long as there are plenty of players like dB loving and diving into the interface, I doubt Yamaha would be terribly motivated to change it.

[Dave Bryce]

As long as there are plenty of players like dB loving and diving into the interface, I doubt Yamaha would be terribly motivated to change it.

I wouldn't say I'm loving it, but it really doesn't confuse me that much. It's just a bit unconventional...but nothing I've gone looking for is buried very deep/that hard to find.

 

So far, the only thing I want to do that I'm not sure where/how to (or even if it can) do it is how to set up splits using an external device as one of the zones as part of a setup. That might make me look at the book.

 

dB

[Joe Muscara]

Okay, maybe "loving" was too strong a word. I probably got that from you loving the board itself, and the interface not getting in the way of that.

 

Still, cracking the book for a feature or two is not unreasonable at all.

[allan_evett]

I remember playing the CP5 at NAMM 2010, and being suitably impressed. When the manual was available on line, I checked it out and my first reaction was 'wow, what a lot of thoughtful features'. When I had the chance to play both the CP5 and CP50 at my local GC, and spend a little time going through the interface, I did find it to be 'different'; I described it as 'convoluted' in a previous thread. It's definitely not a control layout similar to The Motif, or current models by Roland, or Kurzweil; to me these have an 'X-Y' grid setup that interfaces with front panel sliders/knobs in a manner that I've gotten used to.

 

That said, I'm presented with a one keyboard gigging situation where using a CP50, and its compliment of synth tones maybe be the best solution. I'm used to having weighted keys, great pianos, and Motif XS level sounds - but need that in one, mid- weight keyboard. I'm encouraged to read of dB's success in working with the new CP interface. I suspect, with some time well spent, I could do well with the CP50. The only question left is creative budgeting. Anyone for a keytar ?

Seriously, if I go with the CP50, my AX-7 may soon be seen in the KC Garage Sale.....

[Bobadohshe]

I just borrowed Dave Ferris' CP5 for a weekend retreat gig, and I was blown away. The bright piano cuts wonderfully while retaining depth. The 'compressor' button on the lower right is way handy when you want to play slamming rock piano in a band setting as opposed to exposed intricate pianistic work. And the Wurlys and EPs are damn good. Bark, presence, responsivness. The action is awesome.

 

I want one.

[Dave Ferris]

Glad you dug it Bobby. CP5 outclasses all this other stuff ...Nord, Kronos, MP10.

 

The 700NX comes fairly close in playing connection/experience but a totally different feeling and color. Knowing my past less then stellar experiences with Roland in a group setting, I'd be hesitant to take a leap of faith on it.

[VLH]

I just wish is weren't so heavy--55 1/2 lbs is too much weight for me.

[Bobadohshe]

I just wish is weren't so heavy--55 1/2 lbs is too much weight for me.

 

It's heavy but it's not THAT heavy. Manageable for one person for sure. And nothing compared to the days of old.

[MikeT156]

by Dave Ferris:

 

Glad you dug it Bobby. CP5 outclasses all this other stuff ...Nord, Kronos, MP10.

 

Better than the Kronos pianos? I was impressed with the video demo of the Kronos when it was first introduced. No noticeable velocity switching that I could hear. It seemed more like a computer based software program instead of the age old sampled based hardware instruments of old.

 

If you believe the CP sounds better than the Kronos, its got to be pretty darn impressive.

 

 

Mike T.

[Dave Ferris]

I just wish is weren't so heavy--55 1/2 lbs is too much weight for me.

 

It's heavy but it's not THAT heavy. Manageable for one person for sure. And nothing compared to the days of old.

 

Not to get too ot or personal here but it amazes me how physically challenged people are in regards to this issue. This could actually be a thread in itself.

 

For 58 I feel I'm probably in a high percentile of fitness for my age group with my long time running . However I'm the furthest thing from being a weightlifter type. But I did start a balanced strengthening program in addition to the running when I was in my early 40s. I go to the gym and do situps, back raises,pull ups, dips , pushups and lift light weights with high reps. I do low weight , high reps on the lat pulls and upright row for the back and supporting muscles.

 

Even investing in a set of 5, 8, 10 and 12 lb. dumbells for the home and doing basic arm curls, lifts and many other exercises that are easily obtainable online and don't require *high technical form* or trainer supervision can go a long way in increasing general strength. It doesn't take a lot of heavy lifting to obtain results from just 20 minutes a day, 3 or 4 times a week. I know if I miss a week or 10 days at the gym and I do go to lift equipment, stuff feels a lot heavier to me for sure.

 

I say this not only from making your gear schlepping life easier but from a simple quality of life issue. I read with amazement people that are challenged by 30-35 lb keyboards and speakers. I'm guessing one person in particular to be early to middle 40s. Unless a permanent physical disability is present, this just doesn't sound right...sorry.

 

If you are having problems that early in life just think about the future-20, 25 years out. Not only will you not be able to lift a keyboard or a speaker but what about a bag of groceries or bag of dog food ? As we get older bone density thins out. You can avoid premature osteoporosis and curving of the spine (that's why old people walk bent over) by doing simple weight resistance exercices. Getting old sucks, take my word for it. There are many things I could do at 30 or even 40 that I have to think twice about now.

 

Granted the CP5's not light. I bought the Nord exactly for the easier portability factor. It does make life easier for sure. On the other hand, if the load in is relatively straight ahead with no stairs, or tight corners, tables or other obstacles to navigate around, the CP5 is very doable with a dolly or soft case with wheels. There is a lip on the front that is pretty strategically placed that gives you a good place to grip it.

 

Of course if I'm doing a wedding with the ceremony out in the east yard, then breaking down and schlepping to the balcony for cocktail hour and THEN moving to the main room for the band hit--obviously the CP5 won't be my choice for that gig...

[Dave Ferris]

by Dave Ferris:

 

Glad you dug it Bobby. CP5 outclasses all this other stuff ...Nord, Kronos, MP10.

 

Better than the Kronos pianos? I was impressed with the video demo of the Kronos when it was first introduced. No noticeable velocity switching that I could hear. It seemed more like a computer based software program instead of the age old sampled based hardware instruments of old.

 

If you believe the CP sounds better than the Kronos, its got to be pretty darn impressive.

 

 

Mike T.

 

Hey Mike. Perhaps the sample or sound isn't as technically advanced or *big* sounding as the Kronos but I prefer the CP5 with its superior action and super responsive finger to sound connection.

 

Kronos is very good- I borrowed my friend's 73 a few months ago and used it on a Jazz quartet gig. Did 3 sets, we got into some pretty intense things and the Kronos sounded excellent and the action didn't get in my way. For me though the CP5 still won out...YMMV of course.

[Adan]

I just wish is weren't so heavy--55 1/2 lbs is too much weight for me.

 

It's heavy but it's not THAT heavy. Manageable for one person for sure. And nothing compared to the days of old.

 

Not to get too ot or personal here but it amazes me how physically challenged people are in regards to this issue. This could actually be a thread in itself.

 

For 58 I feel I'm probably in a high percentile of fitness for my age group with my long time running . However I'm the furthest thing from being a weightlifter type. But I did start a balanced strengthening program in addition to the running when I was in my early 40s. I go to the gym and do situps, back raises,pull ups, dips , pushups and lift light weights with high reps. I do low weight , high reps on the lat pulls and upright row for the back and supporting muscles.

 

 

It's always rehearsals that have gotten me. It's much easier to get up adrenaline to lift gear for a gig. Moving a 55 lb board for a Tuesday night rehearsal can feel like an unbearable burden.

 

One solution is to have a keyboard just for rehearsal. Sometimes this works out, sometimes it doesn't. If you have complicated patches and setups, then you really want your rehearsal board to be the same as your gig board.

 

Another solution is to play small combo jazz, where almost no one ever rehearses as a group.

[Dave Ferris]

Of course everyone's particular gigging situation or application is different. You're right Adan, the only rehearsing I do is when everyone comes to my studio and then I just play the D. I don't generally do organized bands where particular patches or setups are saved for particular songs. My thing is show up, give me the chart or tell me what key and count it off.

 

In your case, working a day gig (and I remember you said you live in an upstairs apartment/condo) and trying to do rehearsals and gigs around all of that--something like a CP5 would be out of the question.

 

I guess my pov comes from someone just doing gigs full time and no stair issues at home...

[Dana.]

Dave,

 

Which action is closer to your Steinway in terms of response and key weight, the CP5 or the Nord?

[VLH]

I just wish is weren't so heavy--55 1/2 lbs is too much weight for me.

 

It's heavy but it's not THAT heavy. Manageable for one person for sure. And nothing compared to the days of old.

 

Not to get too ot or personal here but it amazes me how physically challenged people are in regards to this issue. This could actually be thread in itself. /snip/

Granted the CP5's not light. I bought the Nord exactly for the easier portability factor. It does make life easier for sure. On the other hand, if the load in is relatively straight ahead with no stairs, or tight corners, tables or other obstacles to navigate around, the CP5 is very doable with a dolly or soft case with wheels. There is a lip on the front that is pretty strategically placed that gives you a good place to grip it.

 

Of course if I'm doing a wedding with the ceremony out in the east yard, then breaking down and schlepping to the balcony for cocktail hour and THEN moving to the main room for the band hit--obviously the CP5 won't be my choice for that gig...

Short answer:

Well--you answered it yourself. You had to get a different keyboard for some of your gig conditions. I'm guessing that if the CP5 weighed 35-40lbs, you'd take it on every gig. And that's what I wish Yamaha were shooting for. Maybe they did, and it's just not possible--but I doubt that.

 

Long answer:

I'll assume your answer was for me, and I don't take it as personal or insulting at all. I admit to having a gear weight fetish. I'm 55, exercise 3-6 times a week, am in the healthy BMI zone, but have chronic neck and occasional back problems, for which I've had therapy, and about which I must always be vigilant. I regularly move my vibraphone on my own; it weighs in at 115 lbs, but due to its wheels and design, I'm able to move it by lifting no more than half its weight in a straight up motion, which is an easy lift. A keyboard puts the back at risk when it must be levered into a horizontal plane from a vertical one--the further the weight is out from the body, the greater the risk. But with care, I'm able to avoid getting too much weight away from my body (height matters here, and I don't have much of that!) Fact is, I've run into plenty of situations where the thing had to be levered at an odd angle. And as my wife recently learned, even a 4-lb purse held straight out can damage the body (torn rotator cuff). The fact that you have not had problems is great, and the strengthening advice is excellent--but every body is different.

 

As a jobber, I've arrived at countless jobs where the schlep turned out to be far more complicated than "advertised." So I want to always be ready. That's why I seek gear that optimizes sound, feel, and weight.

 

Admittedly, I have a lightweight gear fetish, and I've actually raised the issue in a thread or two at some point. I'm also an ultralight backpacker, so I weigh everything. But most of my concern comes from hating the carry-in/carry-out/set up/tear down phase, and working to make that as simple as possible. For me, it detracts from the joy of playing. So I pay attention to it when looking at gear. And I've noted that with rare exceptions, most gear designers ignore this part of the game--though in recent years, a few have caught on. Acoustic Image started the trend with amplification in the late 90s, and now some more mainstream amps makers are trying it. Casio has managed to come up with a "reasonable" action at 24-27 lbs.

 

Yamaha has not (I don't like the feel of their Casio-competitor model), and with the horsepower they have, I wish they would put the effort into reducing the weight on that CP5.

 

 

[Adan]

Of course everyone's particular gigging situation or application is different. You're right Adan, the only rehearsing I do is when everyone comes to my studio and then I just play the D. I don't generally do organized bands where particular patches or setups are saved for particular songs. My thing is show up, give me the chart or tell me what key and count it off.

 

In your case, working a day gig (and I remember you said you live in an upstairs apartment/condo) and trying to do rehearsals and gigs around all of that--something like a CP5 would be out of the question.

 

I guess my pov comes from someone just doing gigs full time and no stair issues at home...

 

I didn't mean to obscure your point, which is that fitness is good. I'm off now to run some stairs!

[Dave Ferris]

Long answer:

I'll assume your answer was for me, and I don't take it as personal or insulting at all. I admit to having a gear weight fetish.

 

Actually I wasn't referring to you..

 

I hear you VLH. I've had rotator cuff surgery in my middle 40s from a mountain biking accident. It's been good the last 12 years or so but the past 3 months I'm feeling an impingement there not only at the gym but practicing the piano (mostly the high technical stuff like Chopin Etudes) and even like you mentioned picking up my wife's purse at a weird angle. I also have a degenerative disc on the lower side of of my right neck that is starting to bother me at the piano and on longer runs. Like I said, I don't mean to get personal with anyone, I know fitness isn't a high part of everyone's lifestyle like mine-I just think it can definitely ease the pia of gear schlepping (heck I've been doing it for 44 years now ) while adding to quality of life as we age.

 

I'm just as anal as most about size and weight. Before I bought the CP5 and Nord piano I wrote down on a piece of paper the dimensions and weight of every available keyboard on the market -from the MP6, SV1, CP50, etc. etc. I did the same thing with the RCF speakers I bought.

 

My motto on probably 80% on my gigs is- get in, get out, nobody gets hurt. I like to try and do one trip with my dolly if possible. I'll go as far as leaving an extra instrument, mic or extension ac cord at home so they don't take up more room in my bag.

 

You're right -if the CP5 did weigh in at 35 lbs. I probably would have never bought the Nord. I know Yamaha is due to update the CP series. It didn't happen at NAMM but I've heard through the grapevine an update is coming along later this year. I would think the lighter weight weight and interface would be the main areas of improvement. I'm not an engineer so I don't know if it is possible to get the new action and NW keyboard into a sub 40 lb. keyboard.

 

The way I look at it is-I'm still healthy and strong enough to schlep the CP5 under certain conditions. I'm willing to suck it up (sometimes) because for me it sounds and plays that well. Inspiration is hard to come by these days--I don't need any more negatives coming from my *tool*--a keyboard that feels and sounds like a toy just in an attempt to save some weight...again YMMV..

[MikeT156]

by Dave Ferris:

 

Hey Mike. Perhaps the sample or sound isn't as technically advanced or *big* sounding as the Kronos but I prefer the CP5 with its superior action and super responsive finger to sound connection.

 

Kronos is very good- I borrowed my friend's 73 a few months ago and used it on a Jazz quartet gig. Did 3 sets, we got into some pretty intense things and the Kronos sounded excellent and the action didn't get in my way. For me though the CP5 still won out...YMMV of course.

 

Thanks for the additional review. I agree, the sound alone does not make an instrument. The connection from the musician to the instrument is the most important thing. If we feel the instrument is an extension of our self then we're on the right track.

 

As Always, I appreciate your insight. I know you "don't take any prisoners" when it comes to your instrument of choice.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

[VLH]

Long answer:

I'll assume your answer was for me, and I don't take it as personal or insulting at all. I admit to having a gear weight fetish.

 

 

I'm just as anal as most about size and weight.

 

Well--we could have a contest. You're talking to a guy who has cut the handle off his toothbrush, the labels from his clothes, and the edges off his maps to save 2 oz... I learned from backpacking that there is an optimal amount for a task--too much and you are burdened and unhappy, too little and you risk safety or pleasure--a rule that applies to many other subjects in life. If I worked for Yamaha, I'd be leaning on them to weigh every component and I'd set a maximum--probably in line with basic OSHA work standards and one that would include a protective case.

 

Didn't mean to take this too far OT--except that I think we both agree--it would be a mighty fine world if the CP5 could go on any gig. Because it seems to have most of the formula right.

[Pale]

Speaking of weight, what keyboard case/bag are you using? I was thinking about gator gk88, but those extra +10kg do not make me happy.

[Joe Muscara]

Dave,

 

Which action is closer to your Steinway in terms of response and key weight, the CP5 or the Nord?

[Dave Ferris]

Dave,

 

Which action is closer to your Steinway in terms of response and key weight, the CP5 or the Nord?

 

That's a hard question, because neither resemble the experience of playing an acoustic, but I'll try.

 

Just in basic weight the Nord feels the heaviest and most sluggish of the three. The CP5 the lightest and way more responsive the Nord. The Steinway is in the middle with regard to weight. "Response" is very tied into "sound", so I can't really say the CP is more responsive then the steinway.

 

So I guess the Yamaha would be closer to a *piano playing experience* action wise then the Nord. But neither are even close. It's so apples & oranges though....

 

There's probably people who can verbalize this stuff better then me--I just play 'em and do my best to sound halfway decent.

[Dave Ferris]

Speaking of weight, what keyboard case/bag are you using? I was thinking about gator gk88, but those extra +10kg do not make me happy.

 

I have the discontinued Yamaha YBS-882 soft bag with wheels. It's holding up fairly good right now. When the zipper or strap breaks I'm definitely screwed...

 

I'm not thrilled with the oversized other soft bags I've seen so I'm not the guy to ask about that. My plan of action is to hope that my bag holds out until the lighter *CP5* comes along. At which time I might spring for an ultra light hard case from A&S Cases here in town.

[Dana.]

That's a hard question, because neither resemble the experience of playing an acoustic, but I'll try.

 

Just in basic weight the Nord feels the heaviest and most sluggish of the three. The CP5 the lightest and way more responsive the Nord. The Steinway is in the middle with regard to weight. "Response" is very tied into "sound", so I can't really say the CP is more responsive then the steinway.

 

So I guess the Yamaha would be closer to a *piano playing experience* action wise then the Nord. But neither are even close. It's so apples & oranges though....

 

There's probably people who can verbalize this stuff better then me--I just play 'em and do my best to sound halfway decent.

I think you verbalized it quite well!

[allan_evett]

Commenting on the schlep factor, as it relates to the digital pianos we've been discussing: for me it's not so much the weight, as it is the size/proportion of the casing and balance of the internal components. I had a Korg SG-1 years ago that weighed approx. 68 lbs, but it was streamlined and balanced enough that I didn't mind carrying it a short distance (upstairs, onto a stage, etc.); the Kurzweil K2500SX I had, though only 4 lbs heavier, was a bear because of its depth and imbalance. I found the Kurzweil PC3X quite manageable at 55 lbs. because of its relatively streamlined case. The Kronos 88, and S90ES - both bulky - seem a little clumsier to move. I suspect that the CP5 would cart similarly to the PC3X.

 

With regard to transporting these 'slabs': I'm very thankful for the 'coffin drag' - wheels at one end - design for cases. I learned early on the value of using leverage, lifting from my legs vs. back, and keeping items centered and close to the body. Also to never shy away from asking for help; if any kind of straight lift is required, I asked for a team lift on anything over 65 or so lbs. That used to be a higher number, so I'll likely be taking up Dave's suggestions about strength training. Though It feels like I've moved gear forever, I'm noticing subtle changes in strength as I near 54.....

[LX88]

I am wondering if the lack of "updates" on Japanese gear doesn't have something to do with the Fukishima disaster.From what I understand that event really put a dent in the electronics industry in Japan. And by the way , in case you haven't heard... the nuclear reactors are misbehaving over there again.

 

But back to our favorite subject.... I don't think that the CP-5 feels like a Steinway in the least, at least not the ones that I have played. And that is probably a good thing for most of us.

 

As I recall, Glenn Gould had his the action adjusted on the Steinway that he did many of his later recordings on. As he put it, he had the action set up to be more shallow and responsive. So if a player of that magnitude could benefit from an easier action, it is at least something to consider.

 

As far as using an instrument that has a reasonable weight and still sounds good, I am using the Roland RD-300 GX for now ( 36 lbs.) I decided that I prefered it to the Nord. And yes, shlepping weight is an issue. I don't like arriving at a gig and being frustrated because I literally have to wrestle to get in and out of a place.

 

I would like to have a CP-5 but I sure wouldn't want to try to drag it around. Plus, it's actually somewhat fragile from what I have seen.

[Dana.]

As I recall, Glenn Gould had his the action adjusted on the Steinway that he did many of his later recordings on. As he put it, he had the action set up to be more shallow and responsive. So if a player of that magnitude could benefit from an easier action, it is at least something to consider.

I've also heard that the action on Horowitz's Steinway was light as a feather.

[MikeT156]

by Allan Evert:

 

I learned early on the value of using leverage, lifting from my legs vs. back, and keeping items centered and close to the body. Also to never shy away from asking for help; if any kind of straight lift is required, I asked for a team lift on anything over 65 or so lbs. That used to be a higher number, so I'll likely be taking up Dave's suggestions about strength training. Though It feels like I've moved gear forever, I'm noticing subtle changes in strength as I near 54.....

 

I'm 64 and I was gigging up until last year as a solo. I used my Motif ES8, sometimes an Alesis Ion too, PA speakers, rack case, stands and accessories. Moving the ES8 in a plywood based flight case (without wheels) got old. I used a sturdy convertible hand truck, but I still had to lift it out of the case, on and off a stand, pack up, load out all that stuff, and drive home late, solo. Now you know why I retired.

 

Allan, I did (and still do) weight training, walking, and an exercise bike regularly. But the body will let you know when it gets to be too much. Don't ignore the message, you'll know when its time.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Mike T.

[burningbusch]

I would like to have a CP-5 but I sure wouldn't want to try to drag it around. Plus, it's actually somewhat fragile from what I have seen.

 

I don't understand this. I would classify it more like a tank.

 

Busch