Motion Sound Pro-3 Setup?

[MuzikTeechur]

A friend of mine recently re-built a Motion Sound Pro-3, pronounced it fit for duty, and sold it to me for cheap money.

Hooked up with my amp, running from my keyboard into the MSP-3, and then out to the amp sounds just great.

The problem arose when we played a gig Saturday night - full house sound system and an ancient sound guy who was probably right there alongside Edison. The Motion Sound splits the signal - >700Hz goes into the MSP-3 and the spinning horns. <700Hz goes to the amp with a Leslie Sim (when selected). The first issue was: what about when I'm NOT using the organ sounds - the crossover in the MSP-3 is still going to split the signal, and the second was, if the signal is split, and the sound guy is using the Direct Out of my amp to send to the mixer/FOH, then everything above 700Hz won't be going out to the FOH!

 

The sound guy offered to mic my setup, but I thought that would cause more problems than it would solve - drummer was nearby, other ambient noise on stage, feedback...

 

I worked around the problem by going directly into the amp from the keyboard, and using the Pro-3 on an effects loop. I just turned down the fx loop on my other keyboard so it wasn't effected by the pro-3. In this way, all freqs were sent out to FOH, and the leslie sim <700Hz was sent out to FOH, but leslie >700Hz stayed with the Pro-3.

To my ear, it still sounded good, but I know I then had a "straight" signal coming out of the amp, AND the effected (Leslie) signal coming out, and was wondering what kind of beat frequencies or other weird stuff I was creating by having both... I know that on many organs they have a "Main + Echo" tab so you hear both the straight signal out of the organ or tone cabinet, plus the Leslie.

 

Hopefully I correctly understand the operating principle of the pro-3, and have explained my concerns somewhat clearly.

 

 

Do you use a Motion Sound Pro model? Do you use it direct or on an fx loop?

How have others worked around sending the motion sound signal to a mixer/mains/FOH? Yes, I could buy a Ventilator, but it's Christmas and I have a wife, four children, and two grandchildren.

[yorgatron]

I have a Pro-3T, I just hit Stop and don't worry about it, the horn (as far as I can tell) always stops in the same place, so it's just a tweeter.

[David Loving]

Another way to do it, if you have a dedicated organ keyboard - long time ago MS Pro3 user - Mic the spinning horn; the line out on the MS (for the low frequency sounds), into a DI and off to FOH. If just using one board you're running the low output to your own amp, just hit stop like yorgatron says. To have a "stop" option you need to use a trs cable from the footswitch to the pro3. You do not need a vent. These Pro3's work great.

[Skinny]

I have a Pro-3T, I just hit Stop and don't worry about it, the horn (as far as I can tell) always stops in the same place, so it's just a tweeter.

 

No.

[Delaware Dave]

I'm not sure if you have a pro 3 or 3T; sounds like a pro3 since you indicated the crossover was 700hz since the pro 3t was 800hz. I have a Pro 3T and Low Pro; I also have used the Pro 3T w/o the low pro. When using just the Pro 3T w/o the low pro I would route the organ signal only through the pro 3T. I would then mic the pro 3T and run the mic'd line into my keyboard amp. I would also route the low simulator into my keyboard amp. I would then route the non-organ sounds out separately from my keyboard into the keyboard amp as well. I would balance out the inputs (mic'd pro 3t, low simulator and non-organ inputs) on my keyboard amp then run a line out from my keyboard amp to the FOH. I would also EQ the inputs on my keyboard amp and just have the soundman run the signal "flat" in his mixer. When I use the Low Pro I mic both the Pro3T and the Low Pro into a Rolls MX22 2-channel mixer, balance the upper and lower, then connect this separately to the FOH from my keyboard amp which carries my non-organ sounds.

[MuzikTeechur]

* I do have a double foot switch, and can run it fast/slow or fast/stop

* I'm not certain whether or not the horn stops in the same place each time, but I doubt it. Regardless, I don't really care about where it stops - what I'm worried about is that the Pro-3 is "filtering" out the highs from going to my amp and only <700Hz is going to FOH

* Mic'ing it and sending that back into the amp might not be a bad idea, if I can do it without setting up a FLFH (feedback loop from Hell). I've heard of a conversion to mount a SM-57 cartridge in the Pro-3 cabinet, with a slick little XLR connection on the back (or front...). The sound mavens will probably gripe about proximity to the horn, but...

* Although I have an XK3c, I'm using the Pro-3 with my Kurz PC1x. The Leslie sim on the XK3c is pretty good (good enough for the bars where I play), but the Leslie sim on my Kurz is far and away the worst I've ever heard. My wife made a recent recording and we listened on the car on the way home. I was HORRIFIED at how bad the Leslie sim was on the Kurz. With the Pro-3 the organ sounds are re-born on the Kurz.

 

Thanks for the good ideas; I'm beginning to get an idea about how this is going to need to go when I'm sending a signal to FOH in a big venue. Others please feel free to weigh in!

[Skinny]

If I were in your situation, this is what I would do...

 

Get an A-B footswitch. Run one cable from the PC1X to the input of the switch. Run channel A out to the PRO-3, and hook up that system (Pro3, low rotor sim out to a channel in your amp.)

 

Then run channel B on the switch to another channel in your amp. Tap the switch to channel B for all other non-organ sounds.

 

As far as getting to FOH, I'd add a small mixer in the setup, that way YOU can mix your Horn/Low rotor sim balance, and send that to FOH.

 

Connect the microphone to the mixer, connect the output of the amp to the mixer, and then send the mixer's output to FOH.

 

I'd have someone play the rig while you stand out front, so you can hear your horn/rotor sim balance, and make any necessary adjustments.

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

- I'm not certain whether or not the horn stops in the same place each time, but I doubt it.

- Mic'ing it and sending that back into the amp might not be a bad idea, if I can do it without setting up a FLFH (feedback loop from Hell).

Stop positioning is random so the horn, when stopped, may not be pointing at the microphone. The mic will still pickup the "highs" as the sounds bounce off the inside of the pro 3 internal cabinet. As far as micing, I use an SM-57 which is uni-directional. You shouldn't pick up any extraneous sounds and I've never had a feedback loop in 8 years of using the Pro 3T. I would not recommend using the internal mic setup (the MS infamous 'Kobitone' mics). They sound hideous and do feedback; trust me you wont like them. I have two built into my Pro3T and only use them in an emergency, they sound really bad. The SM57 works nicely and sounds 500% better than the Kobitone mics. I think I was under the assumption that you were using a keyboard amp; sounds like you dont. I would then go with this mixer: rolls mixer and just mix the Pro3, the simulator and the non-organ sounds to this mixer and send this out to the FOH. Simple but effective setup.

[MuzikTeechur]

Your original assumption was correct: I AM using a Keyboard Amp.

But, the amp has a 4 channel mixer in it and I can send a mixed signal to FOH from the amp, so I guess I'll be setting up an SM-57 for larger venues.