Keeping the tempo?

[MUSIKRICKARD]

Hi! Are there any good advice on how to keep the tempo in the music while your backing vocalists or in general when you have to make sure to keep it steady?

 

I mean, how can I practice it? Are there any things particulary important to keep in mind or does anyone have other handy tips?

 

I just got off a rehearsal where I was a little criticized...

[ITGITC]

...good advice on how to keep the tempo ...while your backing vocalists

 

How about a metronome?

 

Get a digital one where you can turn the sound off, but see the display.

 

As you back up your vocalist, glance over at the metronome from time to time to check your tempo.

 

This should help.

 

Good luck.

 

Tom

 

[linwood]

Have a vocal monitor close so you can hear them sing and where they breathe.

[Joe P]

Here is a video by bassist Victor Wooten showing some practice techniques with a metronme:

 

 

You gotta feel the pulse. The groove is the most important thing. Good luck!

 

Regards,

Joe

[David Loving]

The Victor Wooten u-tube is pure greatness. Can he groove or what? That has gotta help!!

[timwat]

What I was taught - practice playing at significantly slower tempo than performance, w/ metronome. Make sure fingering is correct, swing (if applicable) is solid, note endings are tight, dynamics are correct, etc. Once you can play it fluidly at, say, half-tempo, gradually increase tempo on metronome. Lather, rinse, and repeat until you're at speed.

 

For very difficult bits, I've applied the pomodoro technique (a simple time management principle from biz school). Work uninterrupted for 25 minutes (use a kitchen timer if necessary). No pee breaks, no Facebook, no phone calls, no water breaks. At the end of the 25 min, take 5 minute break and physically get away from the work. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

 

 

[Meisenhower]

 

I've applied the pomodoro technique . . .

 

 

I do the same thing but at the end of it . . . . I have a magnificent red tomato sauce to put over fresh pasta.

 

Never used that particular time management technique myself, but I second using the metronome. I'd also practice working on your "internal" clock and this is something that can be learned over time. By practicing with a metronome, and getting the "rate" imbedded in your head, you can really develop some rock solid time.

 

A fellow physicist friend taught me a technique that allowed me to keep time, while talking or doing other things. I learned to be able to internally "know" when an interval of time had passed. It got to be incredibly accurate after a while. I could sit and read the paper and know within a second or two when 5 minutes had elapsed.

 

Oddly enough, this became helpful once during a late night traffic stop. One of the sobriety tests was to tell the officer when I thought "one minute" had passed from his mark. I was exactly at one minute to the second and he let me go, since drinking tends to distort the perception of time as it passes.

 

Anyway, practice with a metronome and it's amazing how sure your tempo will become.

[JpScoey]

Tap your foot?

[Michelle ggurl]

I'm not sure about your question ... are you saying that when you sing backup your instrumental playing gets wonky? Or that your vocals are not in time with the other backup singers?

 

What exactly was the feedback you got from bandmates?

 

 

[MonksDream]

What I was taught - practice playing at significantly slower tempo than performance, w/ metronome. Make sure fingering is correct, swing (if applicable) is solid, note endings are tight, dynamics are correct, etc. Once you can play it fluidly at, say, half-tempo, gradually increase tempo on metronome. Lather, rinse, and repeat until you're at speed.

^^^^This! ^^^ There's nothing better than an objective reference. Pay particular attention to where you tend to speed up or slow down. Those will usually indicate issues with fingering or confidence. Some people tend to speed up in parts they're comfortable playing and slow down for the difficult stuff. Or sometimes rush through the hard parts to get them over with. The metronome doesn't lie.

[MonksDream]

I'm not sure about your question ... are you saying that when you sing backup your instrumental playing gets wonky? Or that your vocals are not in time with the other backup singers?

I think he's referring to backing up other vocalists who are depending on him for time, Michelle.

 

One tip I'll offer is to avoid using your vocalist's phrasing as your time reference. Vocal phrasing is often very elastic. While rehearsing start with as steady a pulse as you can produce. Play through the tune a few times at a much slower tempo ( 'tempo di learni' ) playing the changes as simply as possible, in whole or half notes even. That will show you both where the vocal part lines up rhythmically against the accompaniment. If the singer starts their line on the and of 4 and you think it's the 1 you could be chasing each other and never catch up.

 

Neither of you is wrong. You just need to agree on where the pulse and beat are, or should be. To understand what I mean by 'beat' and 'pulse' think of a metronome ticking. The ticks are the 'pulses'. The space between pulses (or ticks) is the 'beat'.

 

This technique of slowing down and counting against a ready reference works whether practising with a metronome or playing a with any number of other people. It helps everyone agree on the tempo, pulse, and division of the beat.

 

Another thought is that it's rare that only one person in a group is speeding up or slowing down. It usually happens to the whole group because everyone is listening to one another and making micro-changes in their tempo to keep in sync. So, as a result, the whole group speeds or drags. One person can start the process though. If you can play your part confidently with a metronome you'll know it's not you!

[MoKen]

Meisenhower, tells us more about this technique - or point to a link, please. Sounds interesting.

[David Loving]

don't you have a drummer? blame him!

[Eric Iverson]

I have learned (the hard way) not to use the singer as a time reference. Of course, if you're accompanying a singer and he or she wants to linger lovingly on a note and milk it, you go with the flow; but in some cases they're depending on me (as a guitarist) to keep the tempo steady. If it's a whole band, you HAVE to agree on a basic tempo, or it all falls apart.

Some singers have very good time, but unfortunately some with very nice voices DON'T..........

I find that uptempo tunes are usually not a problem... it's the really slow ones that drive accompanists crazy!

[MUSIKRICKARD]

Thanks for the tips but I see that many of you got me all wrong.. I'm talking about the art of keeping the tempo WITHOUT using the metronome.

Playing with a metronome can be a pain sometimes, if the others in the band are slacking off just a little, it ruins the whole thing.

How often do you see a preformance where the singer and the accompanists use metronome headphones in their ears?

 

The thing I'm talking about is nothing you can get away with by just "tapping the foot". This is way harder.

 

It's not all up to the drummer either, if one accompanists messes with the tempo, the whole band plunges into some sort of wavering off an on in tempo.

 

Just to summit, has anyone got any tips from now on then?

 

 

[Jazzwee]

In a band situation, I choose to ignore the vocalist. I just go with the bass player. Otherwise everything goes to pot when the vocalist goes rubato.

 

I think this is a little different than when there's only the piano accompanist and the vocalist and the piano is playing rubato too.

[MUSIKRICKARD]

Thanks for your tips!

 

I usually never have any problems with keeping the tempo, but when I'm backing someone with perhaps less experienced than myself I feel like the mood isn't propely set or is harder to get for the creating of a mutual musical understanding. Which I think is the most important thing to have in order to perform at the very best.

The idea of the song, the way one like to present it might differ in some cases. That way the other musician might be dissatisfied with the setted tempo. Thats the problematic I guess.. Wheter or not one is on the exact right on-the-bpm timing doesn't really matter as long as one conveys a strong musical experience in my opinion..

 

But I still want to learn how to keep the tempo better. Im not too bad at it, but I want to improve.

 

 

[Michelle ggurl]

OK, well I'm still not understanding your situation based on your responses.

 

I don't think anyone here is talking about the whole band using a metronome to practice/play to in a group setting. That suggestion is all about YOU getting comfortable with doing whatever it is you're supposed to be doing at a steady tempo, and practicing this at home. You may have good time, but then there may be a passage or something that trips you up and you're not aware of it. So a metronome will reveal that. Come to think of it, so will recording yourself. I recommend you record yourself doing these passages with a metronome. This suggestion is valid for tightening up vocals only or your execution of singing while playing. Once (or if) your recordings reveal you are performing these parts with rock-solid time, you may find it's not just you, but others in the band having time issues. But you can't really listen for that until you make sure you've cleaned up any issues with your parts.

 

Your comments/question suggests another possible issue ... how well are your bandmates keeping time? Are they all over the place? That's gonna be hard to follow and no practicing at home to a metronome will fix that. You'll have to follow along as best you can with that time, or call them on it, or find better musicians. But again, you won't be in a position to single out anyone else for bad time if you are not solid when you're singing/playing yourself.

 

OR, are you trying to match what other vocalists are doing and are they not phrasing things the same way as you are? As MonksDream said, in the latter case, it is possible that no one who is conflicting is WRONG, but if you're all singing the same phrasing (your harmonies/notes may be different but rhythm is the same), then you all need to come to an agreement or understanding of what is the "correct" way to sing a part, and do it that way everytime! Usually, this means a sectional rehearsal (or however many you want/need) where you guys JUST work on backing vocals. And someone will likely be directing this, making the call as to what phrasing is going to be used.

 

I hope my comments on one of these scenarios hits the mark for you ...

[Michelle ggurl]

... but when I'm backing someone with perhaps less experienced than myself I feel like the mood isn't propely set or is harder to get for the creating of a mutual musical understanding.

 

This really suggests to me that the main concern is making sure you and singer are really listening to each other. This does usually improve over time, and by gaining experience playing (together, with other musicians). Unless you are playing to a conductor or it's just you on piano and a vocalist, though, it still requires that multiple musicians can play together in a set tempo. In that case, all the advice about keeping good time, and playing with others who also do so, applies. Feeling and dynamics should be able to be emoted with solid tempo. Musicians do it all the time.

[Meisenhower]

No one is suggesting that the band play along with the metronome, however it is the best way to train yourself as an "individual musician" to working on your internal time. This is a valuable part of the home practice session, until your time and clock become rock solid.

 

From your responses, it's difficult to see exactly where the issue lies, since you talk about the tempo having some apparent variation from within the members of the group while performing.

 

Not to oversimplify, but that sounds like one of a couple of things.

 

1. There isn't enough listening going on by members of the group.

2. One or more members have a bit of a time problem.

 

The drummer should be setting the tempo. The bassist drives the "pace" and everyone else drops in and locks with what those two cats are doing.

 

If the tempos are all over the palace, there's no pocket or groove. Start with the drummer and bass player. If those two are locked in, it gives the other players freedom to play a little further ahead or behind and the overall tune doesn't suffer. Miles used to do this ALL the time, but his rhythm section kept things rock steady.

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

Right - practice alone with a metronome; don't play live with one. But if the drummer & bass player aren't keeping good time, there's little hope for anyone else.

 

When playing solo piano backing a vocalist, there are times when you want to keep steady time and times when you should respond to the vocalist's pace. This is a pas-de-deux that takes practice and attention by both. But you still have to have practiced by metronome so you know without question when you're picking up and when you're backing off, rather than doing it by accident. (I'm sometimes guilty of that myself, unfortunately.)

 

Regarding practiging at lower tempo and speeding up, that can be very helpful. I also find it helpful to occasionally set the tempo to 10% or so FASTER and practice for a short while, and then backing off to the normal tempo. This is particularly useful for passages that you're having trouble playing full speed. It forces your fingers to learn more efficient movements and eliminate any wasted motions. It also helps reduce the natural tendency to slow down for the difficult passages.