GreySeraph Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 In about 2.5 weeks, I will finally have, in my hands, a Brahms guitar I had made for me by Michael Peters. I came up to Mike about a year ago, on recommendation from a friend as I punched a hole in the side of my $18k Byers guitar (LOTS OF TEARS AND SCREAMING ENSUED, BELIEVE ME!). Mike, a luthier from El Segundo, CA, has built guitars for people like Andy Summers, Scott Tenant, Scott Morris, etc. Naturally, I bugged him to death with guitar-structure questions, as such things are freaking awesome to think about. But as I left the guitar shop, I decided to ask if he would ever build a Brahms guitar (I stated that I was a huge fan of Paul Galbraith and absolutely dig his ideas about evolving the guitar to suit the ergonomic needs of the human body, as well as furthering the capabilities of a guitar by adding a high AND low A string). Immediately he was super stoked about it. I told him I had no money for the thing, so he let me pay in payments of a few hundred every month (along with the grant money I get from school) (which took forever btw, as the guitar costed me $10k, not including tax). We totally geeked out over this, and I even got Galbraith to fly from Sao Paulo to give a master class at Cal State Fullerton, so Mike and I could pick his brain on everything. So yeah, it's all paid off and being French-polished. Now, hopefully I didnt bore you to death with my story, but I'm just so unbearably excited about this whole thing. If you guys want pics, I'll post them up as soon as I can. Here's two videos of Galbraith playing, so you can see what the guitar is like: [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwEb8e2Xe-U [video:youtube] And yeah, the guitar comes with the endspike and the soundbox underneath. :breathes in: My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That sounds totally fantastic-you won`t get any yawns from this corner dude! pics and clips-put `em up, put `em up (says the cowardly lion). Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 $10K? I hope you really love that sucker. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEHpicker Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Did you say grants helped pay for this guitar? As in government grants? That would mean all of us tax payers have a stake in it. Cool! When do I get my turn? SEHpicker The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Congratulations! And yes, pics and clips! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruupi Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Congratulations on the new guitar, and sorry to hear you broke your Byers. Good classical guitars are so fragile, to get a good sound that projects you have to build them on the edge of falling apart. Please explain a little more about what a Brahms guitar is, I haven't heard much about that GreySeraph. My soundclick site: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=397188 My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/gruupi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That looks really nice! Is it just the piece, the recording, the player or the guitar that kept the wound strings at lower volume in the mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Did you say grants helped pay for this guitar? As in government grants? That would mean all of us tax payers have a stake in it. Cool! When do I get my turn? Most scholastic grants come from private individuals & non-profit fundraising entities, so you'll just have to get your own Brahms guitar. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Did you say grants helped pay for this guitar? As in government grants? That would mean all of us tax payers have a stake in it. Cool! When do I get my turn? Most scholastic grants come from private individuals & non-profit fundraising entities, so you'll just have to get your own Brahms guitar. Hahhahhahhaahhahhaahh!! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Would love to see the pics and elated to hear that you found the guitar you love, which will help to dry your tears from your last romance...even if it cost 10 grand, it's what [you] want that counts... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 What's become of your hole-punched Byers, Grey'? Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvuksanovich Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 You should order yours with a reverse inline pointed headstock and a floyd. \m/ \m/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 That sounds totally fantastic-you won`t get any yawns from this corner dude! pics and clips-put `em up, put `em up (says the cowardly lion). I'll definitely get pics then asap! Mike Peters said he had some pics during the building process that he can probably upload later. $10K? I hope you really love that sucker. In all honesty, in my heart I know it's part of my calling to play this instrument, if you can understand what I mean. Did you say grants helped pay for this guitar? As in government grants? That would mean all of us tax payers have a stake in it. Cool! When do I get my turn? Hahaha! Whatever was left over after I paid for my tuition, textbooks, etc. A lot of it was school loan money I withdrew through the school. What's become of your hole-punched Byers, Grey'? Congratulations on the new guitar, and sorry to hear you broke your Byers. Good classical guitars are so fragile, to get a good sound that projects you have to build them on the edge of falling apart. Please explain a little more about what a Brahms guitar is, I haven't heard much about that GreySeraph. Thanks for the congrats! The Byers got broken back @ the end of August, which was less than a month before I had to play the Concierto de Aranjuez with the Orange County Wind Symphony. It was fixed in less than 3 days, and I'd put money that most people here in this thread wouldnt be able to figure out where the break occurred. Mike's a great luthier for sure! As far as the Brahms guitar, it's also called a cello guitar for obvious reasons. Paul Galbraith, who was an internationally-acclaimed guitarist since his teens (even before his switch to the Brahms guitar), was making guitar reductions of several works by Brahms when he decided the guitar needed more range to adequately justify an arrangement to the guitar. Additionally, He decided he needed the instrument to evolve because of several serious problems in the basic guitar design. So, he went to David Rubio (a violin luthier of the time) with some design ideas, and ultimately they based the guitar mostly from the Orpharion, which is a periodic instrument with fanned frets. The Brahms guitar itself is a fan fretted, 8 string instrument with a high and low A added to either end. The fan-fret is used in order to deal with multiple issues, such as providing a more consistent tension from string to string, as a longer string doesnt have to be of a thicker gauge in order to tune at a sufficiently low note (and the polar opposite for high notes). Also, it is in this way that the high A string is made possible, as it's impractical to make a string thin enough to achieve the high A at a normal 650 scale length (the Brahms guitar's scale length tapers from 650mm down to 618mm). The fan-fret also aids in fixing the poor ergonomic nature of the guitar. By holding the Brahms guitar in a cello-like fashion, one doesnt have to lift the elbow when holding frets, as just turning at the elbow is sufficient movement to move to different positions. The cello position removes any uneven seating arrangements caused by supports, A-frames, footstools, "cowboying" the guitar on your right thigh, etc, and lets you truly sit while holding the guitar as if you were in a relaxed, "hugging" position with your arms (a MUCH better position for the back/spine/hips/neck/shoulders/etc.). In short, the classical guitar design, as we know it, in my opinion is a neanderthalic design desperately needing a fix, as a huge amount of guitarists suffer from debilitating injuries due to the unergonomic nature of the instrument (such as focal dystonia, other nerve damage, carpal tunnel, back spasms, spine-alignment issues, etc). The endspike to the instrument doubles in use, as not only does it hold up the instrument, but it transfers resonance from the main body to the soundbox it's placed on, increasing the amount of soundboard surface area, acoustically amplifying the instrument as well as providing a naturally stereo-like effect. The endspike that Galbraith uses is brass, but mine is made of African blackwood with a strip of brass at its center. The guitar can of course be played without the soundbox. The guitar is also outfitted with a zero fret to help provide a consistency on the fretboard between fretted notes and non-fretted notes, as well as adjust for a lower action. This is especially useful for songs that are arranged from other instruments such as piano. My guitar is built with an Italian spruce top, Indian rosewood sides/back, an ebony fretboard, the blackwood endspike, and koa/maple/snakewood is used for purfling/binding/headstock stripping. The guitar itself is reinforced with a special diamond-shaped carbon-fiber rod bracing and the sides are doubled up, to help deal with the stress from the extra strings without having to overbuild the top to keep this concert guitar just as resonant as any high level concert guitar. The soundbox will be made out of the same materials as the main guitar's box and uses lattice bracing(spruce/rosewood). There will be small portholes on the guitar, as well as the soundbox, to help adjust the quality of the sound of the instrument. The tuners were originally going to be Graf tuners, but had to be swapped for Gilberts as Graf has a two year wait (and 8 string tuners arent normally available) Would love to see the pics and elated to hear that you found the guitar you love, which will help to dry your tears from your last romance...even if it cost 10 grand, it's what [you] want that counts... I will be selling my old 8 string classical soon if you or anyone is interested My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuskBuffer Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 The endspike to the instrument doubles in use, as not only does it hold up the instrument, but it transfers resonance from the main body to the soundbox it's placed on, increasing the amount of soundboard surface area, acoustically amplifying the instrument as well as providing a naturally stereo-like effect. Of course a third use is obvious, and it involves hecklers in the audience.... Dude, that is SWEET! A 7-string guitar is out of my league and an 8-string would be even more so, but no doubt in the hands of an expert such as yourself, it would be phenomenal. would definitely like to see pictures as well as clips of you playing! You've got the best guitar You've got the best amp Now get the best pick! http://www.tuskbuffer.net TuskBuffer Mammoth Ivory Guitar Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 The endspike to the instrument doubles in use, as not only does it hold up the instrument, but it transfers resonance from the main body to the soundbox it's placed on, increasing the amount of soundboard surface area, acoustically amplifying the instrument as well as providing a naturally stereo-like effect. Of course a third use is obvious, and it involves hecklers in the audience.... Maybe I should add a few serrated edges to it so I can ninja wild animals who attack me during my set Dude, that is SWEET! A 7-string guitar is out of my league and an 8-string would be even more so, but no doubt in the hands of an expert such as yourself, it would be phenomenal. would definitely like to see pictures as well as clips of you playing! A lot of people are super intimidated by extra strings, but it's just a familiarity learning curve that takes like two months tops to get used to. Pretty much you have to practice whatever you'd normally practice on a 6 string on a 7 or 8 string and get used to the extra string. Pretty soon you'll start dicking around (as any healthy guitarist would) and noodle on the other strings, getting you more familiar with the extra strings. Once you get acclimated like that, you'll realize that you wont think of it as a harder instrument because of the extra frets, but just with more options. My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So, he went to David Rubio (a violin luthier of the time) with some design ideas, and ultimately they based the guitar mostly from the Orpharion, which is a periodic instrument with fanned frets. It also has antecedents in the Arpeggione, a sort of half guitar half viola da gamba. Guitar body, very rounded fretted fingerboard, bowed, played upright, long endpin grounded on a soundbox. LA guitarist Peter Yates is a major proponent of the arpeggione. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 So, he went to David Rubio (a violin luthier of the time) with some design ideas, and ultimately they based the guitar mostly from the Orpharion, which is a periodic instrument with fanned frets. It also has antecedents in the Arpeggione, a sort of half guitar half viola da gamba. Guitar body, very rounded fretted fingerboard, bowed, played upright, long endpin grounded on a soundbox. LA guitarist Peter Yates is a major proponent of the arpeggione. I've never heard of the Arpeggione but I know the viola da gamba. Is it a renaissance instrument? Where would be a good place to see stuff like this? (besides the obvious: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arpeggione+peter+yates ) My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Just talked with Mike Peters. Pictures should be in tomorrow evening My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus A. Picker Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Congrats on that! I'm a huge Galbraith fan and would love to hear you play the Brahms. It'll be interesting to see how you adapt to the instrument ergonomically. http://www.smokedsalmonband.com/exile/exile1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I've never heard of the Arpeggione but I know the viola da gamba. Is it a renaissance instrument? Where would be a good place to see stuff like this? (besides the obvious: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arpeggione+peter+yates ) Peter Yates' arpeggione is the only one I've seen. I believe it's basically Renaissance era, but an evolutionary branch which became extinct in the presence of more successful later designs. Yates performs in the LA area, so you may be able to catch a gig sometime. I'll be working a Kronos gig at the new Musical Instrument Museum in Phoenix in coming months, so I'll look for any info there. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Good luck with the new instrument. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I will be selling my old 8 string classical soon if you or anyone is interested Hope someone takes you up on the old 8 string...I could not do it justice and have too much to deal with just using 6 of them... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Here's some pics as promised guys! These are older pics showing the guitar before the neck got attached to the body and then polished. Hope you dig the rosette. I dont remember if i posted this, but due to the crazy tension issues with 8 string brahms guitars, Mike played the safe side a bit by doubling the sides and then also adding carbon fiber rods to the inside, to stabilize distribution of tension (the top is still normal, very-thin thickness, as per normal concert level guitars). http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/185610_10150148543826779_39254306778_7856585_120742_n.jpg http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185610_10150148543821779_39254306778_7856584_5792017_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/185610_10150148543816779_39254306778_7856583_238476_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/185610_10150148543831779_39254306778_7856586_4034398_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185610_10150148543836779_39254306778_7856587_1720970_n.jpg EDIT: Also, I failed to mention the Tornavoz that can be seen in the 2nd image. For more info on what a tornavoz is, check this vid out: [video:youtube] My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Brilliant! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Knowing your guitar from the inside out would be an understatement, thanks for the pics showing all of the details...great info on the Tornavoz (which was unkown for me till now)...the carbon fiber rods are really cool and the rosette is flat beautiful... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Knowing your guitar from the inside out would be an understatement, thanks for the pics showing all of the details...great info on the Tornavoz (which was unkown for me till now)...the carbon fiber rods are really cool and the rosette is flat beautiful... Dude I can't wait to show you how the rosette and the back will look once the french polish is done! It's really cool, because I "fixed" my old 8 string guitar by adding a tornavoz to it. It had SUPER wimpy basses and the trebles and mid range was SOOO overpowering those basses to the point where if you were more than 4 feet away from me, you couldnt even hear the attack! Once the tornavoz was put on, everything was PERFECT and you could hear everything just the way it needed to be! I think it's super necessary for any guitar that has a low A, because otherwise the scale length is not long enough (by a long shot!) for a nylon guitar string to get enough tension for such a low note. My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Knowing your guitar from the inside out would be an understatement, thanks for the pics showing all of the details...great info on the Tornavoz (which was unkown for me till now)...the carbon fiber rods are really cool and the rosette is flat beautiful... Dude I can't wait to show you how the rosette and the back will look once the french polish is done! It's really cool, because I "fixed" my old 8 string guitar by adding a tornavoz to it. It had SUPER wimpy basses and the trebles and mid range was SOOO overpowering those basses to the point where if you were more than 4 feet away from me, you couldnt even hear the attack! Once the tornavoz was put on, everything was PERFECT and you could hear everything just the way it needed to be! I think it's super necessary for any guitar that has a low A, because otherwise the scale length is not long enough (by a long shot!) for a nylon guitar string to get enough tension for such a low note. Intriguing... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Intriguing... I think the point of my 8 string wasnt to have a low A in the bass anyway; it was supposed to be C and D for the extra drone strings, but I strapped a low A string from a 10 string romantic guitar pack and put that tornavoz on and it worked like magic My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 So, it's basically a cylindrical extension of the sound-hole protruding a little way onto the guitar's interior? How do you think it would work for steel-string flat-tops? Or even something similar on the "F-Holes" of archtops? (I have yet to view the vid you posted; letting it load now while I have some lunch... ) Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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