When is it time to leave? I'm pretty confused.

[SteveC]

So, I've been playing with a keyboard player for a long time - like 10 years or something - in various bands from jazz to funk to pop/rock to musicals to you name it. We usually have more than one project going at a time. We have similar tastes and seem to play well together. There's no drama or anything like that between us or anyone in the various bands.

 

Currently, the most active group is the jazz quartet. (The horn band and rock band are basically just playing occasional parties and events - not steady gigs at all.) We just got a new drummer - who is quite good and driven - and has sparked some needed life into the group. Learning new tunes, practicing to get tighter, working out arrangements, etc. Not the we didn't do that before, but there is talk of a regular rehearsal schedule and fairly aggressive learning of new material, etc.

 

I'm not sure I can/want to commit to that. I am all for tightening things up, learning new tunes, etc., but I don't want to give up too much of my time. I honestly do very little practicing between rehearsals or gigs. Mostly to get new tunes in my head and under my fingers a little, not because I don't want to, but because I just run out of time and energy. I'm happy with gigging about 3-4 nights a month and rehearsing once in a while, but I don't know if I am as committed as everyone else.

 

We were talking about this and scheduling, how busy we are, etc., and the others seem willing to put rehearsal/band before almost all else. I am not. When we started our family, I promised myself and my wife that while I want to play, it wouldn't take precedence over family. I may be jumping the gun, but we've already scheduled 2 rehearsals in the next 3 weeks. I suppose many would say that is reasonable - and I suppose it may be. The thing is, when you put those 2 nights, along with 5 nights of gigs and 2 nights of being gone with my "day job" I am now gone 9 of 22 nights. To me, that is a lot.

 

I enjoy playing the music, I enjoy the guys, I like getting out and performing. I'm sure I would miss it. I am not making a lot of money (I'm sure it costs me more to be in the band) and I am gone a significant amount of time from my family - at least it seems significant to me.

 

Any words of wisdom? How have you guys dealt with this? Am I being a wimp?

[Griffinator]

Only you can draw that line. Most folks around here would love to have a regular gig doing 3-4 shows every two weeks. They're not the ones who are conflicted about it, though. If you feel it's encroaching on your time too much, it might be worthwhile to discuss bringing in a sub or, if the band isn't willing to allow you to divide it with another bassist, it would be incumbent upon you to resign if you didn't feel able to handle the schedule.

 

Me? I'd quit my day job if I could get a consistent $400 a week worth of gigs, no matter how many bands I had to play in to do it, because I'd much rather play music than pound a keyboard for a living, and I have my lifestyle carved out in such a way that $400 a week would pay all my bills with a little left over.

[Bottom End]

9 out of 22 nights, what happens for the rest of the month?

 

I'd say the person you need to work it out with is your wife, if she's cool with it, there you go.

 

I understand trying to balance family, work, and music, you want to be the dutiful husband and father. But is playing music one of the few outlets you have, stress relief, a time to have a little fun so you can go back to work and family with a smile on your face?

If you quit, will you have another band to fall in with?

If you quit, will you be happy a few nights of the month knowing that you could be playing, but aren't?

 

Only you can answer those questions.

[fingertalkin]

I understand the "if your wife is cool with it" argument but just because she is doesn't mean that you will be. You obviously enjoy being with your family and in the end, that is what matters the most. As the kids get older, you will find more time to do more "Steve" stuff....plus the kids will remember their daddy being around more often.

 

When I was gigging 3 days a week and rehearsing another night, it got to be a little much. While I was having a blast doing it, my family time suffered. Granted, music isn't my career so it is a different story if you make your living playing music but to justify being absent so much, I would take the gig money and take little vacations or day trips.

 

I do value the time that I spent with the wifey and kids the last few years. It has been nice.

[SteveC]

I'm not making $400 a week. Depending on the month its more like $100 on average and maybe $200 on a good month.

 

I'm not sure I'm as committed as the other guys, and I'm not sure how fair it is to them if theybare really fired up to hit it hard.

 

I would miss it I'm sure. It's a balance thing that I'm just not sure of...

[rumpelstiltskin.]

i think it's time to have a come to jesus talk with the rest of the band. if you're gigging regularly, you don't need to rehearse that much. at least that was my experience in a cover band. i think you can find a happy medium. and if they don't respect your family priority, it will be plainly obvious what you need to do.

 

robb.

[Griffinator]

I'm not making $400 a week. Depending on the month its more like $100 on average and maybe $200 on a good month.

 

I'm not sure I'm as committed as the other guys, and I'm not sure how fair it is to them if theybare really fired up to hit it hard.

 

I would miss it I'm sure. It's a balance thing that I'm just not sure of...

 

I hear you. I wasn't insinuating that you were making that much either - you probably wouldn't be grumbling that it costs more to be in the band than you're getting back. However, one of the benefits of coming along for the ride when the band ramps up their efforts is that you will be playing more gigs and making more money. You may find that you're getting close enough with the amount of gigs (and, with any luck, the pay scale for those gigs) to be able to maybe take on another band and walk away from the day job.

 

Or, maybe that's just not something you're interested in doing.

 

I don't know your mind. I know a lot of cats that lose the fire after a couple decades of playing, and I know some (self included) who have music running in their veins, and if they ever tried to quit they'd be miserable and unhappy the rest of their lives.

[jcadmus]

As the others have said, be honest and direct -- and the sooner the better.

 

"I know you guys want to rehearse more, but to be honest I don't really have the time to commit, and I'm not sure I really see the need."

[picker]

What else have you got going on? Be honest with yourself about these questions;

 

1. Are there family conflicts that would arise, or problems with work, or other previous commitments that occupy a higher level in your priorities?

 

2. Are there reasons you wouldn't be comfortable spending that much time hanging around in bars?(notice I did not say "put on woman's clothing and hang around in bars"...)

 

3. Are you worried about missing the latest episode of your favorite TV show?

 

4. Has music lost the fascination and joy it once had for you?

 

If you answer two or more of those questions "yes", tell the guys you need to bow out. It will get weird for everybody if you don't.

 

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

You gotta go with the priorities you set yourself. If you aren't able/willing to commit to a schedule agreed upon by the "projet", then it isn't fair to them to hold them hostage to your schedule.

 

Classic Rock project - everyone has day jobs and families, and a couple of the guys are proud grampas. We reherse weekly (Saturdays) and cancel once a month due to "family". About three to four times a year, a band memeber will veto a gig (I just did so I can attend a wedding - yes, I tried to get us booked there.) Everyone's cool with that. That was said up front. Everytime we've brought in a new member, that understanding is italicised and underlined.

 

If the rules are going to change, then everyone has to abide by them. It suck, especially finding another gig and all, but it if ain't fair to everyone, someone's going to get bitchy, then it stops bieing fun and becomes a chore.

[Seamy ALB]

Steve the only person who knows your mind is you. You have to communicate with your wife and bandmates to figure out what will work and what won't, then make the compromises to make it work.

 

If the band wants to put in a little overtime to achieve a freshness then I'm sure that could be worked out. At $100 a month though its seems a lot of effort for little return, unless the joy of performing is the payback you are after. From your post it seems its not.

 

I wouldn't approach it with an all or nothing mindset more a communicate and see what can work approach.

[SteveC]

Good posts. My wife isn't the issue. She's fine with whatever I do. The other guys have way more trouble with their wives than I do. Everyone knows lovin' a music man ain't always what it's supposed to be.

 

Obviously, it isn't all about money. But as someone said, it is a lot of time and effort for very little monetary reward. I guess I need to decide if I enjoy it enough, right?

 

I guess I'll try to feel the leader out and see if this is a get going now push or a new standard of constant rehearsal for 2-3 $50 gigs a month.

[SteveC]

if you're gigging regularly, you don't need to rehearse that much. at least that was my experience in a cover band. i think you can find a happy medium. and if they don't respect your family priority, it will be plainly obvious what you need to do.

 

robb.

 

Yeah, this is where I think we differ. We've always kind of prided ourselves in the fact that we don't play the usual real book standards stuff. We do some soul, R&B, light rock, etc. This is what we like to play and we wanted to be different than the other popular jazz group in town.

 

I get having a rehearsal once in a while to get some new tunes in the rotation - and maybe that's all this is. When we started that was enough. Some tunes were loose, but we all seemed to be OK with that. All we do are "wallpaper" gigs anyway so I don't think we need to be "Fourplay" tight. The average listener thought we sounded great and said so many times. For me, that's enough.

 

I think the leader wants to take it to another level, get more professional, etc. I'm just not sure that anyone we play for will care. Maybe he needs to do that for his personal needs, but I don't. We're all pretty good at "faking it" but he doesn't want to do that any more. Again, I'm not sure who he's trying to impress as there are a handful of people around here that even know the difference.

 

He has also said many times that his wife knows that music is a top priority. This is where we really differ. This is a guy who played the first set of a gig while his wife was in labor with their first child. If that works for him, that's great, but that isn't a choice any of the rest of use would make.

 

My daughter is very sad when I go. She hugs me tight, cries and tells me to stay and she is lonely when I leave. Granted, she needs to learn and get over it, but that doesn't make it any easier to shut the door and leave.

[SteveC]

What else have you got going on? Be honest with yourself about these questions;

 

1. Are there family conflicts that would arise, or problems with work, or other previous commitments that occupy a higher level in your priorities?

 

2. Are there reasons you wouldn't be comfortable spending that much time hanging around in bars?(notice I did not say "put on woman's clothing and hang around in bars"...)

 

3. Are you worried about missing the latest episode of your favorite TV show?

 

4. Has music lost the fascination and joy it once had for you?

 

If you answer two or more of those questions "yes", tell the guys you need to bow out. It will get weird for everybody if you don't.

 

1. Yes

2. No

3. No

4. No, but I don't know if I have the same level of facination as the current guys in the band. This is my dilemma.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Steve, ultimately it comes down to this: have a talk with the guy, face to face, and then decide for yourself what the best course of action is. You are assuming much, based on little info (as far as I can ascertain here).

 

Having said that, I will echo what everyone else says: only you know your priorities. I applaud you for not laying the decision with your wife. It really matters how supportive she is but at the same time it matters more how you feel about the matter, in relation to your relationship.

 

For the past ten years I have systematically turned down bands who rehearsed at certain times (like weekend evenings). Currently, I am in a new band which may take off or not, but they asked to rehearse on Saturdays in the afternoon, which I was okay with (discussed it with the misses first though).

 

For practical reasons they now asked that until mid March we rehearse Saturday evenings. I feel this is the first band where I want to bend/break my self-imposed rule so I talked about it with the misses and she (somewhat reluctantly) agreed. Should they want to make it the permanent arrangement, then I will need to find a different band.

 

Let us know what the outcome will be.

[SteveC]

While I know I am the only one that knows how I feel and what I'm comfortable with, I do appreciate the opinions and advice given here.

 

Maybe after this weekend (we gig tonight and tomorrow) I'll have a better idea of how it goes, what expectations are, etc.

 

I know if I decide I am not up to the level they are, my gigging days are over (except church) for the near and probably distant future, and that is a tough pill to swallow.

[jeremy c]

If they want you in the band, than they are satisfied with your level and you will get better by playing with them.

 

It sounds like a great situation to me and I would make every effort to stay with it.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Here's a thought: first listen to what the plan really is. If it turns out to really be a situation of more and more rehearsals, offer a consensus: you'll be there half the time. Always.

 

As from a certain point, I do not think there is any reason for all musicians to always be present for every rehearsal. Not that I ever got a band to that point, but it's my opinion and I'll stick to it :grin:

[SteveC]

If they want you in the band, than they are satisfied with your level and you will get better by playing with them.

 

It sounds like a great situation to me and I would make every effort to stay with it.

 

Of course I will try to stay with it, but if it turns out they want to really "kick it up a notch" I think at that point I would have to tell them they'd be better off with someone who can match their level of kickness.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Of course I will try to stay with it, but if it turns out they want to really "kick it up a notch" I think at that point I would have to tell them they'd be better off with someone who can match their level of kickness.

 

I know just the man ...

 

http://ma-mags.com/Search/Chuck%20Norris.jpg

[Griffinator]

Good posts. My wife isn't the issue. She's fine with whatever I do. The other guys have way more trouble with their wives than I do. Everyone knows lovin' a music man ain't always what it's supposed to be.

 

Obviously, it isn't all about money. But as someone said, it is a lot of time and effort for very little monetary reward. I guess I need to decide if I enjoy it enough, right?

 

I guess I'll try to feel the leader out and see if this is a get going now push or a new standard of constant rehearsal for 2-3 $50 gigs a month.

 

Ahhh, now the real issue comes boiling up.

 

You're not making a lot of money with this band, and you're not confident in the leader's ability to generate enough gigs to justify an increased investment in rehearsal (which, as someone else here has stated, is kind of unnecessary if you're gigging regularly)...

 

That's a whole different issue entirely, and yes, it's one you need to hash out with the band leader. Put him on the spot with it - is this increased rehearsal schedule a woodshedding session in anticipation of a large number of better paying gigs in the near future? Or is he just wanting to rehearse more because he's frustrated over not having enough gigs, and thinks that more rehearsal will magically result in more gigs?

[SteveC]

It's the last sentence. There aren't many gigs to be had. We 're already playing gthe 2 jazz gigs in town.

[Griffinator]

I'd say expand the range a bit, but other than Fargo and maybe Minot, there probably isn't much out there in that area....

[Paul K]

Jazz quartet. C'mon; it's jazz. Tightness comes from knowing what to do. Intros and endings aren't rocket surgery. Learning the tunes can be done at home. So what you need is efficiency. Would the rest of the band be content with less rehearsal if ya'll focused on being efficient with the rehearsal time? That means you and the other guys knowing your sh*^ before you show up. If the other guys are committed, they'll do their homework. You'd end up with less "out of the house" time, with a little more shedding time while the kids are asleep. Yes, baby. You can have it all, so don't settle for less.

[SteveC]

That means you and the other guys knowing your sh*^ before you show up. If the other guys are committed, they'll do their homework. You'd end up with less "out of the house" time, with a little more shedding time while the kids are asleep.

 

I think this is probably what we are going for. Just finished tonight and it sound pretty good.

[J. Dan]

We struggle with this - 5 different guys with different ideas about how often they want to play and how much money is enough to take a gig. Now granted, we're making really good money (I can't say I'd bother for the kind of cash you're talking), but we play almost every fri and sat as well as some holidays. The band members range from wanting a full weekend off per month to wanting to play every possible gig we can get, even if it's for half our normal rate. The challenge is to strike a balance that doesn't burn anybody out while maximizing income and minimizing effort.

 

Starting out or learning a bunch of new tunes, I can see having to put in some time. But that should largely be time spent individually on your own. Practice should just be getting together to give it a run-through, make sure it works, and iron out any unforeseen wrinkles. We learn a half dozen songs once about every 4 months or so, and have a single practice to run through them before they are in the list. That doesn't mean i don't spend days at home preparing.

[Bottom End]

I've been fortunate to be able to try the "learn on your own, then rehearse together" versus "learn the song together" method, and the first one works a lot better and makes rehearsal more productive.

[picker]

What else have you got going on? Be honest with yourself about these questions;

 

1. Are there family conflicts that would arise, or problems with work, or other previous commitments that occupy a higher level in your priorities?

 

2. Are there reasons you wouldn't be comfortable spending that much time hanging around in bars?(notice I did not say "put on woman's clothing and hang around in bars"...)

 

3. Are you worried about missing the latest episode of your favorite TV show?

 

4. Has music lost the fascination and joy it once had for you?

 

If you answer two or more of those questions "yes", tell the guys you need to bow out. It will get weird for everybody if you don't.

 

1. Yes

 

This one is the deal-killer. Family and job come before band, if the band isn't your job. It ain't worth family strife or troubles at work. Tell thanks for the memories, good bye and good luck.

[Griffinator]

Starting out or learning a bunch of new tunes, I can see having to put in some time. But that should largely be time spent individually on your own. Practice should just be getting together to give it a run-through, make sure it works, and iron out any unforeseen wrinkles. We learn a half dozen songs once about every 4 months or so, and have a single practice to run through them before they are in the list. That doesn't mean i don't spend days at home preparing.

 

I can see, when I'm first working with a group of musicians, the need to feel each other out and get a chemistry going, hence weekly or biweekly rehearsals.

 

Beyond that, gigging builds chemistry, and rehearsals should be limited strictly to, as you indicated, adding in new material.

[TimR]

When is it time to leave?

 

Not yet.

 

Set your own time-scale, let them know. If the rehearsals are going to step up then you shouldn't need loads to get very tight - then, when up to the leaders standard, the rehearsals should drop back a bit and the gigs ramp up.

 

Me? - I would give it two months of hard rehearsing to see if there is any improvement then, if there is, one more month for him to start getting the gigs. Then look at it again.

 

Let your wife and the band know you're going to do this and stick to it.

 

Start looking for another band now.

 

This was what I did, but I gave it a year because I was naive.

 

I thought that the leaders idea of tight was the same as mine.