Ross Brown Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hmmm... I went to a friends open mic last night. It will be a good one once he gets going. I noticed something that I wondered about. It seemed to me that most of the bass players that got up to play really overplayed.... made me start questioning myself... I got over it, but I did think about it for a while. I did that thing where I think every bass player in the world is better than me... Do you see this (overplaying) from other players too? Do you see it in yourself? I like to add some "color" to a song with the bass line but these guys were just up and down the fretboard all night long. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think they need to switch to guitar. They don't have a clue about the role of the bass. Just my narrow opinion. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's something spend a lot of time trying to balance. "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b5pilot Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 No they just had a case of "there's other bass players in the audience so I'll show 'em up" syndrome. It's an offshoot strain of "lead guitarist" disease. It mostly effects highly competetive or overly ego endowed individuals. Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it. http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I did that thing where I think every bass player in the world is better than me... Yeah definitely know where you're coming from. Thing is, I know that just about every bass player in the world is better than me. When I went to see the other band my singer and guitarist play in, I was awed by their bass player. He is at a place I may never reach, both in technique and in feel. His approach made me think of "pop bass", you know where the occasional fill jumps out and grabs your attention for a second. But as he was playing I realised: these guys play with a hip cat like that, but they also auditioned and accepted me, so I must be doing something right I like to add some "color" to a song with the bass line but these guys were just up and down the fretboard all night long. Haha yeah again, know the feeling! I always wonder why it is everyone BUT me seems to fly all over the place. I tend to be in one position and mostly stay in one position. "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 We've all overplayed at some time. Eventually you get so you hear the whole band, not just yourself and you can hear how you fit into the whole. (well, not eventually for some people who have diarrhea of the fingers). At a jam session, every one wants to make a statement and "prove themself", so I understand more of why overplaying happens then. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Honestly, there are times when I've listened to Entwistle or Wooten on a recording and thought they were overplaying. This might be sacrilege. To me, the best bass line is not noticed because it's there, it's notice because it isn't there. If you know what I mean. Other than that, it's a matter of taste. "Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngoldsby Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Often times, lower and slower wins . . . www.goldsby.de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well if overplaying fits the song, then I see no problem. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 But then would that really be overplaying? Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 But then would that really be overplaying? No... I am talking about what seemed to be way more than I would have done, and also more than I wanted to hear, as an audience member. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think the problem is that we would get into subjective territory fairly quickly. What you might consider overplaying, I might consider tastefully reserved. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's very simple. Anyone who plays more than me is overplaying and anyone who plays less than me is underplaying. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It depends on what the rest of the band are doing. Music is not a competition between band members. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottom End Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 In Entwhistle's case, he seems to be playing more than Townsend, but he does it just the right amount at the right time. I've seen Wooten live, and he seems to play the right amount, with SMV he was often holding down the "bass part" while Stanley and Marcus did their thing. Of course, he stood out on his parts when it was time. It's also about dynamics, how do you build to a high point if everyone is trying to top the other from the start? Usually, the slap-happy players are the most likely to overplay, IMO. "Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me.'-Hamlet Guitar solos last 30 seconds, the bass line lasts for the whole song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Jams always have the potential to be a mixed bag. It really depends on the host band and the talent they draw. That has made me much more discerning about the jams that I attend. If the host is a clown, I expect him to draw clown level talent. Hence, I stay away from clown jam host bands. But here was something interesting from a few weeks back. I went to one of the better jams I attend, but wound up with something of a mixed bag in terms of the players. It was me, the house band drummer (who's pretty good), two intermediate level guitarists and a singer. The singer is a sweetheart and tries hard, but music is not her true artistic calling. This particular session left me basically leading the set, since neither of the guitar players lead and the singer isn't quite capable. I counted things off and it actually turned out alright. I kept the groove solid and between the drummer and me, we made everyone else sound pretty damn good. Naturally, you're left wanting a little more when the players involved are somewhat lackluster, but you need to pick your spots. And the drummer and I did just that. We were playing a slow blues and at one point both guitar players had taken solos and neither was really taking the tune anywhere in particular. The drummer and I looked at each other and we kicked into 3 or 4 choruses of double time, during which time I walked my ass off. It wasn't a solo, but it was an opportunity for both me & the drummer to "get some". When it was done we went back into the original tempo and did our thing. So what do I attribute that anecdote to? It's a number of things. Among them, hanging with players who are generally pretty good. And that usually means players who listen. There are very few people on that particular scene who are notorious for overplaying. And their collective experience runs the gamut: some of these guys are weekend warriors, some gig a few times a week, and one even has a few records and grammy nominations to his credit. Maybe it's the general proximity to NYC? I know that I count myself lucky for being able to play with people of this caliber simply because I've learned so much from them, including when to hold back. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plangentmusic Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I never sit in at jams. You have 2 options -- show off and overplay, in which case you look like a wanker. Or just lay it down tastefully, in which case you come off like a polite bore. It's a no-win situation. I'd rather not engage in it and let everyone wonder how good I am. JAZZ UN-STANDARDS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vE4FoJ4Cr4&feature=related DON'T FEAR...THE REVERB! 60's Instrumentals with MORE BASS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russkull Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It's very simple. Anyone who plays more than me is overplaying and anyone who plays less than me is underplaying. True. I also think Bottom End has it right. 95+ percent of the time you're holding it down and being that solid rock. But when the opportunity comes.... Although, that leads me to another thought: maybe a big difference between amateurs, like yours truly, and the professionals is that when they throw down, they're still not really playing everything they could possibly play. They're still conscious of how it fits in the song and are holding back a bit. If I try something, I'm pretty much using everything I know - which is why I rarely do it. "Of all the world's bassists, I'm one of them!" - Lug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can't overplay. I don't think that way, nor can I move my dinosaur fingers fast enough to get in anyone's way but my own, so I don't try. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It's very simple. Anyone who plays more than me is overplaying and anyone who plays less than me is underplaying. I was going to say that it's all relative but Jeremy nailed it. As usual! http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I switched from guitar to bass so I wouldn't have to play a lot of notes. And I'm actually capable of keeping up with just about anybody I see who I think is overplaying. I just hate it. Like Ross I like to add little fills or "color" which I think adds to the song but doesn't go "Look at me! Over here! The bass player! Over here! Look..." It seems to me that the (mostly) guys who overplay also play too farging loud. We hates them, Precious. We hates them forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I was going to say that it's all relative ... Really? I don't have any relatives that overplay...:grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Overplaying doesn't seem to happen on records, but people think they can get away with it live. That's when they ruin a perfectly good song. Some so-called overplaying could be attributed to Jaco, Les Claypool, Victor, etc., but they don't play that way when they are not playing their own music. Their music is written to feature the bass and it does. And of course then there is playing like Jamerson or Rocco. They play a lot of stuff and it never gets in the way of anything. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Malone Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Jeremy and I saw Victor play a fill gig with Mike Stern where Vic was reading charts and didn't overplay by any means. The only time he really stretched out was on his solo. But this also showed the pro that he is while playing with others who were totally familiar with the material. Oh, and Dennis Chambers was the drummer on that gig. Wally I have basses to play, places to be and good music to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imogene Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Good thread and interesting responses. I agree with this: I'd rather not engage in it... Unless I get paid afterward, I'm not taking my bass to any for profit establishment. I can jam at home or with friends. I have a great time at the clubs and such, but I always leave with my (formerly agreed upon) take of the payout. I prefer a straight up audition (as a total unknown) than to "network" at these jams. As far as overplaying goes, thats subjective. I mean if you're at a "jam" then why not show-off a little? Otherwise whats the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I use open mics to take a new band out and play a few songs together to get the nerves out before start gigging regularly,. This worked well. I usually don't play otherwise, unless a friend needs a bass player... The open mics I go to have some folks that are not so good and some others that are pros playing several times a week. They usually show up to help the host (friend or band mate) out and make it a better show for the venue. The host gets paid. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b5pilot Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 In my opinion if it fits the song and you're not stepping on any toes then you're not overplaying. Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it. http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm not entirely sure it exists. There is just good and bad. You listen to the whole band, feel the music and you play it how you like it and how it makes the music a greater whole. If people like it they like it, if they don't they don't. When it sucks it's often because overthinking or ego get in the way. In my experience that's as often from lifeless, momentum-free minimal playing as it is from overplaying. It's true that playing less and making it work well is a skill and we all tend to play less as we mature but there's too much limitation of bass role sometimes and we are our own worst enemies. Tina Weymouth works, Jamerson worked, Jamaaladeen Tacuma worked, Entwhistle worked, Willie Dixon worked...ain't nothing to do with how busy they played - only how well and how well they fitted with their bands. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It's actually more about the micro-architecture of each note and how it relates to the whole. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It's actually more about the micro-architecture of each note and how it relates to the whole. Crikey! Now you're telling me there's a "micro-architecture" to EACH NOTE that I have to think about? I'm screwed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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