Acoustic Guitar Saddle Material

[Jim guthrie]

I think that is why Ebony pins are so popular plus they look good like our polished Black Diamond saddles. If you have a Ebony bridge use Ebony pins. If you have a Rosewood bridge use Rosewood pins. A solid dark bridge and black nut looks real good With a dark finger board. You can also put a soft material like graphite or cork inlayed in the string grove. A soft string grove takes some of the load off from the bridge which is offset to one side putting a lot of load on the pin hole center line where the cracks happen. Remember in engineering force is force the less force you have on a weak area the less cracks happen.

[Chad Thorne]

...human bone that was cleaned by eagles on a sacred mountain and then bleached in the sun after daily fruit baths for 5 years. Nothing that extreme...

Too bad. I've got some of that and was going to offer it to you.

[TuskBuffer]

Y' mean "Tuskbuffer", whitefang?

 

I wonder what happened to him... he just sort of seemed to have disappeared.

 

I used to have a fossil-ivory mammoth-tusk pick of his, that a friend gave me; after a long time, I gave it to someone else- being as I don't use picks, anyways...

 

Hi there! Yes, I've been out of the loop for quite a while, and I appreciate that somebody remembers me! Coincidentally, I am considering making some more mammoth ivory picks if I can get enough high quality material to support it. For those that are horrified that I use Mammoth Ivory, please keep in mind that mammoths have been extinct for thousands of years and therefore are not killed for their tusks. I wouldn't even use pre-ban elephant ivory, whether it's legal or not.

 

I think the name somebody else was looking for is Wegen Picks.

[TuskBuffer]

If I recall, Tuskbuffer, although he said he obtained his ivory

from legal/ethical sources, was nonetheless confronted/harrassed by some on

this site about his sources and decided it wasn`t worth the headaches.

I have a pick that he made from, and partly in return for, an example

I gave him. It`s pretty awesome but basically irreplaceable. It`s not going to

get thrown into any audiences, that`s for sure.

 

Skip--I still have that red jasper pick, and I appreciate that you hold the one I gave/traded you in such high regard! I remember it was very difficult to make, especially the finger groove, but I was happy with the outcome. As for why I quit, it wasn't because people gave me grief (I don't really think anybody did once they understood the source), but mainly because I did everything myself and was taking too much time away from my family--had to get my priorities in line. Times have changed, the kids are older now, thinking about resurrecting the "hobby." Man, it's good to see the old gang still here!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Tusk', great to see ya! How ya been?!

 

I had one of your picks, a rather thin and "normal" one, thinner and more "normal" than you usually made, that you made so to order for someone, who later gave it to me as a gift.

 

I kept it for a long time, but as I rarely use ANY pick, and presented it to a young guy who was playing a gig on his birthday; he thought it was pretty cool.

[skipclone 1]

If I recall, Tuskbuffer, although he said he obtained his ivory

from legal/ethical sources, was nonetheless confronted/harrassed by some on

this site about his sources and decided it wasn`t worth the headaches.

I have a pick that he made from, and partly in return for, an example

I gave him. It`s pretty awesome but basically irreplaceable. It`s not going to

get thrown into any audiences, that`s for sure.

 

Skip--I still have that red jasper pick, and I appreciate that you hold the one I gave/traded you in such high regard! I remember it was very difficult to make, especially the finger groove, but I was happy with the outcome. As for why I quit, it wasn't because people gave me grief (I don't really think anybody did once they understood the source), but mainly because I did everything myself and was taking too much time away from my family--had to get my priorities in line. Times have changed, the kids are older now, thinking about resurrecting the "hobby." Man, it's good to see the old gang still here!

 

Hey Tuskbuffer!

Ya, actually I just used your pick in the studio recently. Love that thing.

Anyway I`m glad to hear it wasn`t the `march to Frankenstein`s castle`

mob scene that caused your absence. That scenario was related by another forum member. In any case, good to see you back-I will give an up-front endorsement, you are a pleasure to deal with.

For those who use a pick and take it seriously, this is the guy you guys.

 

 

[TuskBuffer]

March to Frankenstein's Castle--awesome...AAARRGGHHH! Fire BAD!

 

Thanks for the endorsement--much appreciated I'll be sure to let you know once I get in the swing of things.

 

Well, this is turning into quite the reunion, but I don't want to dominate someone else's topic. The original poster was looking for a saddle, which I may be able to provide. Please let me know what kind of dimensions you need and I'll see if I have something that'll work.

[Terrell]

I'm retrofitting a Seagull. It's a cedar top dread. I like the mellow cedar tone, but don't like the lack of crispness in the attack of the plastic tail.

 

What is going to brighten it up the most for finger style?

[TuskBuffer]

Hi Terrell--I have some mammoth ivory (as you may have already surmised). Ivory is a very dense material and would probably brighten the tone a bit (one way to find out, right?). I am not a luthier and I wouldn't be able to custom fit it for you, but I can probably send you some blanks and let a proper luthier take it from there. Feel free to PM me and we can discuss it further.

[Bikewer22]

Although it's not "exotic", bone is an excellent saddle material. Durable, easy to work, and dense... Provides excellent tone.

The guy that does the excellent Frets.com site recommends it. (professional repairman)

I use it for most all my cigar-box builds which of course do not have stellar tone but the other characteristics make it desireable.

 

I just hacksaw out a blank and use my trusty Dremel for shaping.

[Sharkman]

There is a company down in Texas, www.texasknife.com, that has all sorts of knife making supplies and equipment. I just checked, and they currently have two pieces of mammoth ivory 1" x 3 3/8" for $65.00. They also have an assortment of animal bones and horns for knife handles, that could be used for saddles, nuts, and other parts.

[TuskBuffer]

By the way, I've got some mammoth ivory in 4"x.5"x1/8" that I can let you have for $20. PM me if you'd like some. I've only got a couple pieces in that size, but I'm sure they'd be perfect for saddle material.

[Bartholomew]

What about Micarta for saddle material? It's used by some manufacturers for a nut

 

I have a Micarta bridge on a Seagull Artist Studio model. Had it replaced with bone, got a better sound but bad intonation on my B string so went back to the original Micarta bridge which was brighter & compensated plus the intonation is right on again.

[Larryz]

Was Bone, now it's Tusq (only because that's the nut and saddle materital that came on my latest GAS attack nylon Taylor acoustic)...my deaf ear would probably fail to tell the difference in tone...but both are better than plastic (have had a plastic nut crack on one of my old Tele's) prefer Bone nuts for strength and would hope that Tusq will hold up as good or even better...

[Jim guthrie]

Larryz,

 

Tusq is plastic. There are three kinds of Ivory, fossilized Ivory,old Ivory that is not fossilized, and freshed killed Ivory. All three will brighten it up also the BD carbon will brighten it up. Bone, Ivory, and Tusq string gouge and have to be reworked over time. Tusq is brighter than bone and bone is the worst material for plugged in period.

[Larryz]

Larryz,

 

Tusq is plastic. There are three kinds of Ivory, fossilized Ivory,old Ivory that is not fossilized, and freshed killed Ivory. All three will brighten it up also the BD carbon will brighten it up. Bone, Ivory, and Tusq string gouge and have to be reworked over time. Tusq is brighter than bone and bone is the worst material for plugged in period.

 

I hope Tusq plastic is stonger than the cheap plastic Fender used on my MIM Tele which cracked (and which has caused me to only buy American made Fenders since)..and thanks for the info Jim, although I must say that Bone is my favorite nut material on my Strats...(sorry for injecting electric guitar material into an acoustic guitar thread)...

[Jim guthrie]

Larryz,

no problem about talking about electrics. We have already tested

nuts made of the BD carbon and they do not string gouge like bone,Ivory ,or Tusq. The BD carbon also has a lower coefficient of friction than teflon so it will help with string breakage at the nut and saddle. I think we will make Tele BD saddles first for electrics because Austin has the best Telewacker on the planet and Redd is a real cool guy that likes to test new stuff.

 

Regards

Jim

[picker]

I think we will make Tele BD saddles first for electrics because Austin has the best Telewacker on the planet and Redd is a real cool guy that likes to test new stuff.

 

Let us know how that comes out. I'd be real interested. I'm nursing a serious case of Tele fever right now. I'd like a rosewood body and a maple neck with an ebony fretboard, Callaham hardware and Joe Barden p/ups. Lord knows what I'll end up with...or when I'll end up with it.

[Larryz]

Larryz,

no problem about talking about electrics. We have already tested

nuts made of the BD carbon and they do not string gouge like bone,Ivory ,or Tusq. The BD carbon also has a lower coefficient of friction than teflon so it will help with string breakage at the nut and saddle. I think we will make Tele BD saddles first for electrics because Austin has the best Telewacker on the planet and Redd is a real cool guy that likes to test new stuff.

 

Regards

Jim

 

Was checking into Tusq and it looks like it's made by Graph Tech...supposed to be some sort of trade secret High Heat Polymer...they are also making adjustable saddles for Strats and Teles out of this new material...supposed to increase sustain...luthiers like it for acoustics as it's easy to work with when buffing, sanding, filing, whatever...one reported being a little worried about breathing the dust...but they like the white color staying the same all the way through...hopefully it will hold up very well...haven't tried the graphite concept but have heard good reports from a few that have...Tusq is now being used on all Taylor acoustics...so it should be [note] worthy...

 

 

[Jim guthrie]

You are right Larryz tusq is made by Graph Tech of Canada and it is a high stress plastic. They were smart to call it man made Ivory because plastic had such a bad name because of the soft plastic used on low end guitars. Taylor has used it for some time

now and Martin uses it on a lot of low end and mid range priced guitars now. The manufactures only pay $1 per saddle and it will not cause lawsuits from employes like bone has (bone dust is very toxic). Tusq is easy to work with but it string gouges on the first set of strings just like bone. If you are going to play

plugged in it is much better than bone. Unplugged most people like bone better. Tusq is brighter than bone like Ivory or BD carbon. Graph Tech also makes electric saddles made of graphite and teflon which will also string gouge. Graph Tech started in the 80's making electric saddles out of pure graphite. Micarta,

Tusq, and BD carbon work best plugged in with a under saddle peizo. With the BD carbon saddle my FG 335 Yamaha sounds better than my Les Paul with a tube amp like a Fender twin and my D41 is of course even better. So if you want a louder, balanced, clear tone, and a saddle that does not wear out in 6 months or less and can play with any amp made and is better unplugged in than bone or Tusq than BD carbon stands alone. This is the answer to Terrell's question that started this discussion. One last thing when picking a saddle material drop it from about 6 inches on to a hard table top it it rings like china it will sound great no matter what it is made of only the very best pieces of bone will ring, most bone goes thud. We are in Austin so if Terrel wants to play a Martin HD 28 with a BD saddle through a Fender twin with out feed back he can call me 512 567-2702. www.obbligatoinc.com

 

Regards

jim

[Terrell]

You are right Larryz tusq is made by Graph Tech of Canada and it is a high stress plastic. They were smart to call it man made Ivory because plastic had such a bad name because of the soft plastic used on low end guitars. Taylor has used it for some time

now and Martin uses it on a lot of low end and mid range priced guitars now. The manufactures only pay $1 per saddle and it will not cause lawsuits from employes like bone has (bone dust is very toxic). Tusq is easy to work with but it string gouges on the first set of strings just like bone. If you are going to play

plugged in it is much better than bone. Unplugged most people like bone better. Tusq is brighter than bone like Ivory or BD carbon. Graph Tech also makes electric saddles made of graphite and teflon which will also string gouge. Graph Tech started in the 80's making electric saddles out of pure graphite. Micarta,

Tusq, and BD carbon work best plugged in with a under saddle peizo. With the BD carbon saddle my FG 335 Yamaha sounds better than my Les Paul with a tube amp like a Fender twin and my D41 is of course even better. So if you want a louder, balanced, clear tone, and a saddle that does not wear out in 6 months or less and can play with any amp made and is better unplugged in than bone or Tusq than BD carbon stands alone. This is the answer to Terrell's question that started this discussion. One last thing when picking a saddle material drop it from about 6 inches on to a hard table top it it rings like china it will sound great no matter what it is made of only the very best pieces of bone will ring, most bone goes thud. We are in Austin so if Terrel wants to play a Martin HD 28 with a BD saddle through a Fender twin with out feed back he can call me 512 567-2702. www.obbligatoinc.com

 

Regards

jim

 

Jim,

 

I'd be more than happy to try it out. Do you make a bridge that will compensate for the G on a Seagull?

[Jim guthrie]

Terrell,

 

We have only made the 16 inch radius .100 thick saddles so far.

The Seagull is a 16 inch radius I think but I know most of them are .125 thick. We are going to make more coating runs soon for Violin bridges, different saddles and different pick designs. First you might want to compare the bone vs BD carbon on the HD 28 Martin to see if this is what you want. If you send me a email or call me I will give you the company owners email and or phone number so he can tell you how long it will be before we have the Seagull saddles. Redd has one on his Collings and he really likes it.

jim.guthrie@obbligatoinc.com 512 567-2702

[Terrell]

Sorry, I'm sure I should, but I don't know who Redd is...

[picker]

[Jim guthrie]

Picker knows his guitar players. Redd was Merle Haggard's guitar player for about 6 years after Roy Nichols retired. He is the best tele guy alive and you can see him at the Continental Club on most Saturdays about 3:30 PM. I talked to Jon yesterday and he has two 16 inch radius .125 saddles we made for James Goodall.

Goodall is building his next run of guitars and does not need the saddles yet so we could test your Seagull with them. The answer to your question about the G string we can compensate any string. The material is as easy as bone to work with it is just different. It is harder than bone or Tusq but not diamond hard of course. Did you know Bill Colling's guitar factory is in Dripping springs (very near) and you can tour the factory almost every other Friday at 3:30 PM. Bill is the best traditional builder in the world right now he has about 40-50 employees.

[Terrell]

OK - He's a good player. Maybe I can check him out some Saturday...

 

FWIW - Collins is not really "in" Dripping Springs or even Hays county. It's more "on the way". I guess it's far enough out to get mail from DS. I haven't taken the tour.

 

Collins are very proud of the Instruments, as they should be.

 

What's the next step?

[Jim guthrie]

either we can meet and you can play the Martin with the bone and BD saddle or you can contact Jon and he will be here on the 21th with the thicker saddles to test on your Seagull. The intonation on those saddles may or may not be already compensated

I can't remember what I did to those saddles. I think you should talk to Jon about this he has the saddles. I do not want to post his phone # or email address. We need to talk so send me a email or call me 512 567-2702 jim.guthrie@obbligatoinc.com

[Larryz]

Tusq is easy to work with but it string gouges on the first set of strings just like bone. jim

 

Jim, after the first set of strings have caused gouges in Tusq, are you stuck having to replace strings with the same guage forever or can you go up or down in guage without causing a nut or saddle problem? (ie. acoustic nylon going from .044 to .045 or .041 to .038 etc.)

 

thanks, Larryz

[Jim guthrie]

Larryz,

 

The first set of strings cause gouging but it takes a few sets of strings until it starts to mute the volume to where our ear will hear it and it is a slow process over about 6 months of playing. Same thing with bone the human ear is not the best instrument to measure volume anyway. The companies use tusq for two main reasons it sounds good both plugged in and unplugged (bright like Ivory) and they get them for about $1.00 each.

as a replacement most techs charge $55.00-$75.00 or more to replace Tusq or bone because they have to shape bone and do intonation to the the saddle. Most Tusq saddles are preformed because it is molded plastic but some need shaping depending on the guitar, the neck and sound board can move and the height of the saddle might not be right for the correct action. The BD carbon saddles are also preformed we can make them to the old saddle if we have the saddle or the tech can sand off the bottom if the action is to high. For a replacement saddle the BD saddle is $100.00 which is sticker shock at first but they

never gouge and at worst case would only have to be sanded on the bottom if the action needs to be lowered. In that case the BD saddle is a better deal money wise over time if you keep the guitar and play it. As far as changing the string size that will change intonation and a little of string size makes a lot of difference with a clear sounding saddle like Tusq or BD carbon.

The BD carbon is also clearer ever than tusq and is louder than any saddle material I know of. It is even a better conductor of acoustic and thermal energy than diamond. Tone is subjective that is why I suggested to Terrell who first asked the question

to play the Martin we have or test it on his Seagull before he buys any thing ( we are both in the Austin area). Also always have a good guitar tech work on your guitar. I learned how to make nuts and saddles because I am left handed and had to learn that to play. When I started playing in the late 60's there were

almost no such thing as a left handed guitar. If you remember Hendrix took a strat and made a left handed nut adjusted the saddles and hand a left handed strat. When McCartney was playing an acoustic the pick guard is on the top not the bottom. Also nuts

gouge slower but will wear out over time made of any other materal

I know of except the BD carbon

[Jim guthrie]

On other thing over looked or not yet talked about a pick can brighten up any guitar the three best I have seen are the Black diamond ($30.00), Blue Chip ($35.00-$75.00), and Red Bear ($20.00). That is a lot for a pick but the BD never wears out the Blue chip wears very slow and the Red Bear's are moisture sensitive ( don't wash your pants with them in your pocket).

all three picks are great and bright. I only use the BD's but I think most players should have and use all three they are all different. Turtle shell is dark in the mids and mellow I like the tone but would never play a turtle shell over the three mentioned I like brighter picks. Most people say yea but I will lose that expensive pick. We sell our picks with a carring case

for two reasons to prevent chips in the BD carbon and so you will not drop it when you get your keys out of your pocket. I

do not know why Blue Chip and Red Bear have not figured that one out yet. I hope they do not read this. BD is stiff, Red Bear is stiff and Blue chip is a little flexible (the $75.00 pick is thick and stiff). Every pick maker says the best pick in the world that is marketing there is no such thing every pick is different and every player is different. Most people play with cheap trash picks and do not realize that is holding them back on tone and playing ability. I learned that one the hard way use a good pick even if it is not our Black diamond pick a great pick will make you a better player in days try it you won't be sorry.