Pre amps...annndd....amps???

[DRGarcia]

Well, ok, can anyone help explain the function & need of a pre amp whenever one already has an...amp. Exp: I have a Genz Benz 600 amplifier, but, to get a better more defined sound I was given the advice to get a pre amp to run with it. Do I, or can I, use them together? Do I use one at a time? Im pretty sure there are more than acouple of U out there that have tha knowledge. Please share, thanks

[SteveC]

I suppose you can use as many as you want. With each addition comes the potential for increased noise. I have active basses, so I start with a preamp. My amp is a combo - the preamp is built in. Some people will use a preamp and/or DI between their bass and amp - like a SansAmp or any number of products out there.

 

Your BGE600 is a nice amp. What cab(s) are you using? What bass? What are your current settings? Do you have your gain structure set up correctly? All these variables will effect your sound and how we can help you.

[DRGarcia]

I gotta say, I like it too! it does sound great! I'm running it with 3 Bergantino 10's and a port and a horn on that cab. Then I got 4 Bugera 10's and horn. so, altogether: 7 10's, 2 horns, 2 ports. I'm lookin to replace the Bugeras here soon, either with another Berg cab or maybe like, an Aguilar cab? 12's maybe? I've been lookin at Avalon & Demeter Preamps as a choice for pairing with My current setup. I...well I don't really want to give too much of My settings away(not that they are worth too much) but Ill put it like this. atleast, for My sound, I think MIDS are quite important. I don't use too much gain, cuz I don't want to get too much hissing and feedback. I rely mostly on the volume for power. I keep the gain at about 8-9 o'clock.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Well, ok, can anyone help explain the function & need of a pre amp whenever one already has an...amp. Exp: I have a Genz Benz 600 amplifier, but, to get a better more defined sound I was given the advice to get a pre amp to run with it. Do I, or can I, use them together? Do I use one at a time? Im pretty sure there are more than acouple of U out there that have tha knowledge. Please share, thanks

 

Simple answer, someone wants to sell something to you.

 

Look at your favorite players. Are they using preamps? Why?

 

It is real popular to sell crap to put in the signal chain, when all proof to the contrary exists for most types of music... the shorter and cleaner signal path sounds better, all other things being equal.

 

I'm a studio guy, and I have boatloads of preamps. What did I use on basses in the studio? Well, I had an old Ampeg fliptop that I liked, and a G&K that sounded more modern, and a very old silver Silvertone/Danelectro bass amp, and what I used depended upon the music. I also had a handful of extension cabs, again matched them to the music. Some bassists brought in their SVTs, which was fine. On rare occasions I'd use the instrument input on the Great River MP-2 NV, or the Midas XL-42 for the eq section. I usually also take a direct line straight off of the bass, but that is for recording.

 

If you want a different sound, either change your bass, change your amp, or change your strings, or re-examine your own playing style. The KISS methodology applies here, unless you just like throwing money at music stores, while not really addressing your problem at all. The last thing that you should do is to put more crap into a signal chain that makes you unhappy, expecting it to improve. Remove the parts that don't sound good. Don't try to hide them!

 

[rumpelstiltskin.]

your GBE600 is a preamp and power amp in one package, regularly referred to as a head (or an amp). the recommendation being made is that by using a separate preamp and power amp, you can increase the power available while also improving the sound. there are ways to use a separate preamp with a head, but that is usually an unnecessarily heavy approach, both conceptually and in terms of physical weight.

 

so the real question is why are you searching for a better, more defined sound? what is it about the GBE600 that is insufficient for your needs?

 

it sounds like whoever is giving you information is encouraging you to buy very high end gear. there is no problem with that -- i, myself, use and enjoy bergantino speaker cabinets. but knowing more about what you're trying to accomplish by changing gear will help us guide your decisions with some wisdom.

 

I don't use too much gain, cuz I don't want to get too much hissing and feedback. I rely mostly on the volume for power.

 

not that it doesn't work for you, but you won't get hissing and feedback from turning up the gain. you do risk distortion, but fortunately there's an LED by the input jack that allows you to see when you're clipping. more importantly, though, you should be able to use your ears to evaluate whether it sounds right. that will give you optimum volume from the head using the volume control. as it is, you are likely getting only a small fraction of the power that amp is capable of producing.

 

not that you should have any trouble getting loud with both your speaker cabinets.

 

robb.

[DRGarcia]

That's what I meant, sorry I didn't describe with more clarity. I knew it was a preamp and power amp, itself, as heads usually are, but I guess the real question was what the benefit of adding a separate preamp would be. You pretty much steered Me in the right direction with Your advice. Well, like I said previously, the GBE600 is an awesome amp and I am very happy with it, I just want to sharpen up My sound a bit more. I do use effects and I have a considerable amount I use during playing and I know the more stuff, in a chain, You have between the amp and the bass will take away from the sound. So, I thought maybe to sharpen up My sound I could get another preamp and a sonic maximizer to help achieve what I have in mind. I know everyone says ''dude, the reason why the bass players You listen to sound like that is because they have money and can buy or are offered through sponsering, anything they want!'' But, c'mon, if you want and can hear a sound that You personally want, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, FAMOUS PLAYER OR NOT!, YOU CAN ACHIEVE IT! I don't mind spending money on making Myself sound better. I have been playing for 14 yrs and I HAVE THE PLAYING END DOWN!, I guess its My tech-head side that pushes Me to see what I'm also ''sonically'' capable of too! Shit, one of My favorite guitarist, Robert Fripp, is a perfect example! He can play!, OBVIOUSLY!, but He CHOOSES to use crazy effects and run the gammit with different sounds. He would, has and does sound great by Himself , but, I mean, WHY NOT USE SOMETHIN TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE, SONICALLY, FOR YOUR SOUND!? For bass, I'm trying to get that Stuart Zender sound, on the active side, and on the passive side, I'm looking for that gritty John Wetton,Geddy Lee, Juan Alderette sound. And I think I can achieve that by doing the forementioned. NOT THAT I NEED TO, AND YES, THERE MAYBE ARE OTHER WAYS TO ACHIEVE THIS, but leaning towards the direction I am, I'm asking for advice to go that route, Ya know?

 

[jeremy c]

No need to yell.

 

I really don't think you need gear to get any of the sounds that you mention. I think it can all be done with the fingers.

 

[Bottom End]

Your fingers, as well as your guitar and amps settings, IMO.

 

 

[DRGarcia]

Sorry don't take it as Me yellin, I just ''highlighted'' those parts cause I was tryin to really get those points across! We ARE just talkin about equipment! I need ta brush up on My e-etiquette! But thanks You ALL for the help and advice, KEEP IT COMIN! ;D

[DRGarcia]

If this is any help with the advice, because I'm noticing that this has been mentioned quite a bit, I play a Marcus Miller JBass, an American PBass with a Hammon Darkstar Pup, A Yamaha RBX A2-5 and a Modulus FLEA-I say FLEA because I got it years back when it WAS a FLEA and it still IS a FLEA, in My opinion, MODULUS!!! j:8 I also have a vintage Fender Fretless JBass. I'm about to equip the M.M. JBass & Fretless JBass with Nordstrands NJSE's.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Since you say that you use a lot of effects, I suspect that your loss of attack comes from something or some combination of things in the signal chain.

 

Let me give an example.

 

I've always used vintage guitars and vintage amps, with some pedals sometimes.

 

I bought a better amp... new boutique take on vintage amps, vintage sound but better.

 

Suddenly, while my direct guitar to amp sounds were way better, when I inserted the pedals into the chain the whole sound got muddy.

 

I ended up replacing my run of the mill music store pedals with boutique pedals with true bypass, and I got my tone back plus I was able to leave the pedals in the chain without damaging the tone when they were not "on".

 

Now, you can shout all you want, and maybe you just want to run out and spend $900 on something you don't need. But my recomendation to you would be for you to examine your chain and look for the weak links.

 

Geddy Lee uses stainless steel strings (as do I on my electric guitars) and they are brighter. The assortment of amps and guitars over the years has changed, but his sound is always his sound, so I would not put too much stock in any given equipment as being its source. I'm not hugely conversant with Rush production sounds in detail, but as I remember it the bass sound seems pretty straight ahead and is not surprising given that he is usually also playing footsies with an old Moog bass synth, MIDI controllers, or some other foot-triggered samples.