Bridge Question

[anderz]

I wasn't sure to put this in the Ask Myles thread, since he just says that he takes amp questions. This is a guitar question.

 

Should I get another bridge or fix the bridge? Here are some pictures:

 

Bridge:

http://Incubus151.googlepages.com/bridge.JPG

Back of the Bridge (idk what it's called):

http://Incubus151.googlepages.com/backbridge.JPG

Setup (just for kicks):

http://Incubus151.googlepages.com/setup.JPG

 

I look forward to hearing any diagnostics that you guys may have.

[Guitarzan]

loosen your strings and tighten the two screws in the spring cavity. retune and your bridge will be lower to the body. this may require a set up of your string action (height).

you could also add extra springs. unless you use the trem i would adjust the springs until the trem rests on the body.

[Zephyr]

What gauge strings are you using? Do you always use the same gauge, or have you stepped up/down?

 

Also, those springs might have lost some of their tension over the years. Depending on how old they are, it could be beneficial to get some new ones.

[anderz]

I'm just using the standard .10 gauge. I did switch down from 11s, went to 9s, and now I'm at .10. I really don't think it has anything to do with that, though.

 

I'm thinking of upgrading to a floyd rose:

http://www.amazon.com/FLOYD-ROSE®-LICENSED-TREM-CHROME/dp/B0006ZNB8W/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1252270816&sr=8-7

[Zephyr]

This is totally a preference thing here, but I agree with Dan Erlewine that 4 springs work best with 10's. Just omit the middle spring.

 

And, there are other ways (and less expensive) to keep things in tune (although not as concise as a floyd). But if you're really wanting one, nothing else will do.

[simus35]

but don't forget you will need some work to fit a floyd rose on a strat body

[Caevan O’Shite]

I'm just using the standard .10 gauge. I did switch down from 11s, went to 9s, and now I'm at .10. I really don't think it has anything to do with that, though.

 

Actually, that has almost everything to do with that- changing gauges chganges the string-tension which changes the angle that the whole bridge-plate will rest at, the intonation, the action, the neck-relief...

 

Get this guitar set-up properly, and learn how to do that yourself and be able to keep it set-up correctly, before you go to a Floyd; otherwise, you'll only be in for even more headaches when the Floyd presents similar troubles to you again.

[Gifthorse]

I would take it to a guitar tech, but yeah changing tensions will totally mess with a tremelo.

 

Floyds are good for 1 thing. Staying in tune. A properly setup floyd with the strings stretched a bit will not go out. But the drawbacks are those damn pivot points it rests on. They get warn out over time. Depending on the player. If you are trying to copy Steve Vai and Satch and use it ALOT, then this aspect may drive you nuts.

 

I am not sure the options for Floyds now. I have mentioned before, my last Floyd was a Kahler Steeler. At the time it was the best one out. It was a licenced bridge from Floyd Rose. Exactly the same except it was made of higher grade tooled steel. It was heavier and the pivots were more durable, it also was less tinny sounding.

 

I have heard if you set it up like Eddie it will have better tone. He doesn't set his Floyds floating. They are all the way to the back. He claims this makes the tone better.

 

Floating bridges can be annoying for rythm guitar. Not to say one can't adapt to them, but they have a certain flutter effect if you like to palm mute.

 

I am not sure the alternatives to a Floyd nowadays. But the Floyd obviously locks at both ends which makes going out of tune almost impossible (unless your pivots are worn or have a burr). I remember the standard competition was Kahler back in the 80's.

 

Thier trademark bridge was very different, BUT it did NOT lock at both ends. Only by the nut. They didn't stay in tune that good as a result, and the tone wasn't as good because the strings were on these rollers. When you pushed it down, the strings would lost contact with the bridge and the tone would suffer. With a Floyd there was more contact with the bridge.

[anderz]

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/LR-Baggs-XBridge-for-Fender-American-Standard-Strat?sku=307100

 

I'm thinking about getting this, rather than a Floyd Rose. I really need a decent bridge that won't go out of tune when I equip a tremolo arm.

[Caevan O’Shite]

That looks to be a decent trem-bridge, but other than the cool "acoustic" saddle-transducer pickups in it, it's probably only marginally better than what you've already got, if at all; and it would still have to be set-up correctly to begin with.

 

Since you're already OK with throwing some money at the problem,

 

(A) Get this book: How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great!, by Dan Erlewine; EVERYTHING you will need to know about getting that guitar completely set-up to work its absolute best is covered in detail.

 

The book comes with a set of radius-gauges inside the back-cover; invest in a 6" "machinist's scale" (a little flexible 6" ruler) graduated in 64ths and 32nds on one edge. A capo will help with some set-up procedures. Buy a tube of Archer-brand Teflon gel lube from Radio-Shack to put in the nut-slots and bridge-saddle notches (a tiny dab will do), and anywhere else that could use it. Consider locking-tuners, as well.

 

(B) Settle on one specific brand, type, and gauge set of strings, and use the same exact strings on that guitar every time you change any; and when changing all six, swap 'em one string at a time, so as to keep the trem-bridges set-up from accidentally changing.

 

(C) Consider paying a qualified professional to do a thorough set-up on it, but still do steps A and B first!

[anderz]

Thanks a bunch, Caevan, and everybody who's posted. I really appreciate it and it seems everyone on the forum is a guitar tech. The dog on the avatar approves. She's probably sleeping, though.

 

These things seem to be the exact solution to my problem:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/DiMarzio-Tremolo-Bridge-Tension-Springs?sku=364742

 

Fender Bender93 seems to have the exact problem as I do, they seem to solve it immediately, I guess.

 

Caevan- I think I'm really settling with D'Addario XL Strings for now, probably for a while.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Please don't be offended by my saying this, but I think that your current stock springs are probably fine- it's more of a set-up/adjustment issue that you've got there.

 

The strings and the springs pull on the bridge in either direction, like a tug-of-war balancing a teeter-totter.

 

If you change the amount of tension in the strings by either changing their gauges, the tuning, or both, then the balancing-point at which the bridge rests will shift one way or the other.

 

Once you've changed string-gauges, you need to re-adjust the screws that hold the spring-claw inside the spring-cavity in the back of the guitar.

 

In this case, it looks like you need to loosen the strings (tune 'em down), like guitarzan said, tighten the two screws on the spring-claw just a little- until the bridge is a little further back towards the body than you want, then re-tune the strings up to pitch- which will pull the bridge forward a little again. Trial-and-error this way will eventually net you the resting-point that you want. (I'm assuming that you want the bridge to "float" still, allowing a little up-trem pull, right?)

 

Another approach:

 

If you block the bridge into place exactly where you want it with a couple of small wooden wedges placed on either side (front and back, not left-right/treble-bass), so that it's immobile, and then tune-up your strings to correct pitch and adjust their intonation, you can then remove the blocks, and loosen or tighten the spring-claw screws until the bridge returns to the balance-point that you had it at before when it was blocked, and the strings sound in-tune again.

 

Once you've gotten that trem under control again, maybe we can talk about trem-stabilizers; but not until you've got that axe handled! Seriously, it's just more set-up work either way; why fight it?

[ThisSiteSucks]

That is way,way too high. Take it to a pro if you're not sure how to set it up.

 

Most strats come with .009's and putting .010's on them will do that. A setup for the bridge, neck (truss rod adjustment) and intonation tweak are in order.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Another thing- raise or remove the middle-four screws that the bridge pivots on, leaving the outside two (the ones closest to the "High-E" and "Low-E" strings). Do a complete set-up, and then either leave those four screws out all together, or carefully put them back in adjusted to be identical to the outside-two in height and relation to the bridge-plate.

 

When they're unevenly adjusted, tuning stability can suffer; and those outside two are plenty enough by themselves- I believe that many of SRV's Strats with vintage-style trems only used the outside-two...

[anderz]

I will take it to a guitar tech probably today or something.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I will take it to a guitar tech probably today or something.

 

Keep us posted, let us know how it goes!

[anderz]

Alright..

 

It went well. The guy tweaked my bridge up a bit, it works. I'm thinking about getting a new bridge anyway, cause I always run into tremolo problems, as the hole for the tremolo is broken and I cannot use the whammy bar properly.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Buggered threads, perhaps? Is that the problem where "the hole for the tremolo is broken" and you "cannot use the whammy bar properly"?

 

If so, you might be able to clear it up some if someone carefully runs a well-oiled tap of the same thread-size as that of the holes (and handles) threads back and forth a few times.

 

Then you could snug up the feel to your satisfaction with a few winds of Teflon plumbing/thread tape (non-adhesive) wrapped around the threaded end of the bar; just a little, trial-&-error...