SteveC Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 This came up in my bright strings thread and I thought maybe it deserved it's own space. I was asking about the brightness of my strings and turning down the treble to compensate and maybe needing less bright strings. The subject of my tweeter and if I could turn it down was brought up. If I'm turning down mt treble - which is mostly going through the tweeter I assume - am I also loosing some of the highs that are sent to the 10" driver? If so, is turning down the treble a good thing, or is it better to have control over the tweeter? If it is, why didn't the guys at GB put a tweeter attenuator on this cab like they do on some of their others? Is putting one in myself an option? Would it really make that much of a difference? I am not up on all the technical aspects of this topic so thoughts are surely welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzilla Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I would think it would be best to send a full signal, and adjust from the amp/speaker if you have those controls there; if nothing else to see if that is the real problem. But if you don't, well, that's not an option. You either have to adjust the treble output on the amp, or on your bass's preamp. While I've heard of people putting in tweeter pads and such, I know it's beyond my electronics skills and wouldn't consider it unless things were erally bad (in which case I would get another cab- not that I'm trying to fuel any GAS for you). My Genz Benz 2x10 has a horn pad; I roll it off slightly. It's not harsh, and sometimes I do leave it on full (based on what rig I'm using and the sound of the room). My Carvin 2x10 had a harsh horn, and needed to be rolled off or turned off. Even then, it was still brighter than I liked; which is why it went away (in spite of it being lighter than the GB) "Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion) NEW band Old band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 There are very few tweeters that sound good in a bass cabinet, and even then you also need a high-quality cross-over to make it sound good. I would rather have no tweeter than a cheap tweeter and crossover. You could always disconnect the tweeter and just send the full signal to the 10" speaker. That is easy enough to reverse in the event of a sale. That is what I did with my Ampeg SVT410HE. My Acmes and Bergantinos have very nice sounding tweeters, so those stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I've used cabinets with tweeters for many years now and I'm not really sure why I do (except that the tweeters come with the cabs I like). I don't think that anyone actually hears the tweeter unless they are directly in front of it. Hmm...I'm directly in front of it. OK, the tweeter helps me hear myself on stage. Whether it helps anyone else hear me is debatable. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Yeah, the Bergies are great cabs. I'm not entirely sure that it's the tweeter in the GB though. I notice that my tone is plenty bright through the PA at church as well. I don't want to do away with the high end all together as I do like a brighter sound - maybe more than other bass players. I guess what I am wondering is if I reduce the treble on my preamp or amp, I'm assuming that it's reducing it to the driver as well and that is maybe not the best thing? I'm not looking for an excuse to get another amp. I mostly like my GB combo except for this little brightness thing. Maybe an email to GB would be a next step? They are pretty good when it comes to CS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b5pilot Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 In my opinion a cab with a tweeter should have a attenuator. That way some of the ultra highs can be filtered out or reduced without losing the highs coming out through the other speakers. Then again, unless you do a lot of slap, tapping or just want a more hi-fi sound tweeters aren't really necessary anyway. A lot of cabs also put those gawd-awful piezo style tweeters in them. Those are real brittle sounding. A diaphragm style (I think that's what they are called) tweeter is a bit more pleasing to the ear in my opinion. Getz is correct. The quality of the crossover also has a lot to do with the quality of the sound coming out. Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it. http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 IMHO - the best way to get your high end is from a single speaker (meaning no tweeters/crossovers). Unfortunately, 10" and smaller speakers are usually the only way to get that high end, and you gotta have a lot of them if you want significant low end (probably why the Ampeg 8x10 is so popular). A 15 just isn't going to have adequate high end. So next best thing would be 2 cabs, a 15 and a 4x10 or 2x10. If you're trying to keep it more compact and have to have a tweeter, cone style is best, followed by horn, followed by piezo. The Hartke's had a 5" speaker which is the right idea, but the Aluminum cones had other artifacts that aren not always pleasing. I have a Hartke 1155 combo that I got for cheap with no speakers in it (just the 3500 head in the box). I put a 15" paper cone speaker and covered the 5" hole. It sounds good except it is definitely lacking the high end. I've searching high and low for a suitable 5" to add to it. When I find one and try it out, I'll post the results. FYI - the 15 is a Selenium that goes up to about 4kHz (I had thought that would be high enough, but it's not). Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 IMHO - the best way to get your high end is from a single speaker (meaning no tweeters/crossovers). I completely disagree. If you've got good speakers, a quality cab design, and a good crossover network in place separates sound enormously better. There are very few tweeters that sound good in a bass cabinet, and even then you also need a high-quality cross-over to make it sound good. I would rather have no tweeter than a cheap tweeter and crossover. You could always disconnect the tweeter and just send the full signal to the 10" speaker. That is easy enough to reverse in the event of a sale. That is what I did with my Ampeg SVT410HE. My Acmes and Bergantinos have very nice sounding tweeters, so those stay on. All that is very extremely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 IMHO - the best way to get your high end is from a single speaker (meaning no tweeters/crossovers). I completely disagree. If you've got good speakers, a quality cab design, and a good crossover network in place separates sound enormously better. It also depends on your proximity to the cabinet. Separates are going to result in a different coverage pattern from different frequency ranges and different interactions between the drivers depending on your relative position to each - especially if it's a horn, which has a very controlled, focussed, dispersion, which is why I say cone drivers are better. Generally, if you are going to be directly in front of the cabinet at a pretty good distance, then your statement is accurate. But what if you're off to the side? Or right in front of it? A full range driver will give you more even coverage. And then there's the question of if you want to mic it up - where to you mic it to get full range if you have a 2-way cabinet? Granted most people are probably using direct outs, but it's something to consider. I'm not saying you CAN'T get a better sound out of a 2-way - quite the contrary, even a 10 is not going to hit anywhere near the highs of a horn driver, but in most cases it's EASIER to get a good sound with full-range drivers in a variety of applications due to the added complexity of the crossover, driver interactions, etc. Just my opinion - but I'm biased, my favorite cab is the Ampeg 8x10 (just wish I had the money/space/back strength for one) Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Gaffer tape some foam over the tweeter and see what it sounds like. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 If I'm turning down my treble - which is mostly going through the tweeter I assume - am I also loosing some of the highs that are sent to the 10" driver? If so, is turning down the treble a good thing, or is it better to have control over the tweeter? i think the real issue is whether you like your sound with the treble attenuated. it doesn't matter whether the treble is coming from the tweeter or whatever. ...A full range driver will give you more even coverage. And then there's the question of if you want to mic it up - where to you mic it to get full range if you have a 2-way cabinet? Granted most people are probably using direct outs, but it's something to consider. well, you're not going to get full range from a full range driver, anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. if you want a full range singal, mic the driver and blend with a direct signal for lows and highs. that's the standard approach, at least. robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote=robb}well, you're not going to get full range from a full range driver, anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. if you want a full range singal, mic the driver and blend with a direct signal for lows and highs. that's the standard approach, at least. Some 10's go as high as 6kHz-8kHz. While not technically full-range, I'd argue that for Bass Guitar, that's pretty close. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Some 10's go as high as 6kHz-8kHz. While not technically full-range, I'd argue that for Bass Guitar, that's pretty close. However once you get beyond about 1.5kHz the dispersion of a 10" is extremely poor so your sound varies hugely between the on-axis tone and off-axis. If you want to get even dispersion across all frequencies you need to cross over to progressively smaller drivers as you go higher in frequency, so woofer, midrange then tweeter (if you want the last octave or two). Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davio Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Steve, as I understand it adding an attenuator to your tweeter will sap power and efficiency. That doesn't mean it will sound bad, just slightly different. Alex (see above) can be a great resource for info on this subject if he feels inclined to chime in further on the OP. Personally, I only like tweeters for 1) getting that nice clackity sound when slapping and 2) hearing myself better when playing onstage if I'm playing busier music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't want to start digging in the guts of my amp. I think I may just keep turning down the treble and maybe try some DR Sunbeams. It's the cheapest and most practical solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't want to start digging in the guts of my amp. Aw c'mon. Get a screwdriver out and take a look inside the cab already! What if Sir Edmond Hillary said, "ah screwn it...it's a pretty tall mountain, don'cha know". Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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