Sort of OT...College Dropout

[Catlin]

I started taking a college music course in September, at first I loved being around it everyday and I was learning lots of new things. Since returning from Xmas break it seems like the course has changed a great deal. It no longer seems organized, teachers are frustrated and no one seems to be all too happy. I know school is a stressful environment but this just seems to be stress caused by lack of organization.

 

I am on march break now, and I have been practicing a lot, and do not feel stressed out. I can focus on learning,creating, and playing.

 

When I am in classes it feels as if I am being pulled in so many different directions that I learn nothing, and I end up feeling worse about my abilities.

 

I have made a decision not to return next year to this particular school, I am also thinking of dropping some of my stressful courses and just finishing up the two months with ensembles and lessons.

 

I received a call yesterday from a band looking for a bass player to play with them in the club circuit. They are booked up for a year at some good clubs around the region and pay is pretty good. Even though I am more of jazz cat(this is Celtic rock I believe) I think I would gain lots of experience and it would fill the void of not being in classes.

 

I am not looking for a yes or no, just thoughts on school and getting a decent gig. I am still young and plan on going to a more organized program in the next couple years. -Catman

[Rocky McDougall]

Being a college dropout myself, I speak with some knowledge. In today's world, it is very important to get a degree, no matter what you plan to do in life. If you want to be a musician, you will probably need a day job to survive. Most employers really don't care what your degree is in, they just want to know that you had the discipline to finish the job. Life is frustrating, it is not confined to schools. The sooner you learn to deal with it, the better off you will be. If you want to have a musical career, do it as a professional not amateur.

[Ross Brown]

I dropped out then went back and earned a PhD. Now I make good money and can afford to play bass anytime, anywhere.

 

If you do drop out, keep an eye on resetting your goals to include a degree in something you are passionate about.

[davio]

All I can tell you is "finish ASAP!" I spent 5 years farting around with 4 majors at 3 school and now have ~$60k in student loan debt and no degree. After a few years of spinning my wheels (while playing plenty of good music, mind you) I'm hoping to start back part time this fall because my current company offers tuition reimbursment, but I should have been done long ago. The whole "I'll take a year/semester/some time off and go back to finish" thing is a joke. People told me that and I laughed because I thought I was more dedicated than that.

 

Good experience is never a bad thing, but finishing your degree is much better. Decent gigs aren't the hardest thing to come by...especially as you get older and more experienced and continue networking, but school gets harder and harder to go back to the longer you put it off. I'd be in a much better place financially if I had finished right away.

 

My 2 loonies.

[jeremy c]

I dropped out because I wasn't interested in my courses (and it was the 60's). Then I moved to California and started playing gigs full-time.

 

A few years later, I went back and majored in music, which is what I should have done the first time. I paid my way through school with my gigs.

 

I wouldn't have been able to get the teaching jobs I have had over the years without my degree in music.

 

And I met my wife in a class, so college was definitely worth it.

[LLroomtempJ]

Being a college dropout myself, I speak with some knowledge. In today's world, it is very important to get a degree, no matter what you plan to do in life. If you want to be a musician, you will probably need a day job to survive. Most employers really don't care what your degree is in, they just want to know that you had the discipline to finish the job. Life is frustrating, it is not confined to schools. The sooner you learn to deal with it, the better off you will be. If you want to have a musical career, do it as a professional not amateur.

 

there is a whole bunch of wisdom on this thread.

 

There are plenty of people that are plenty successful w/o degrees, but they are the exception. Most people looking to hire want a post-high school certification of some sort.

[...]

Since I'm the exception I'm going to throw my loonie into the hat.

 

I went to college because that's what everyone told me to do. I was planning on it since as early as I can remember because everyone said, "You need to go to college". OK. So I did. What to major in? Wow... no clue. I took prereq courses, lots of music classes, and tried to figure out what to do. Long story short I spent 6 years in college, got a pile of student loans (only about 1/3 davios, thankfully), and had no degree. I finally just bailed because I still had no idea what I wanted to do. Well.. sort of. I should have just done music performance like my gut was telling me to from the beginning. However the parental units were telling me that wasn't a good choice because "what would I do with that degree?" Lesson to learn here: don't go to college because someone is telling you to and don't study what someone else wants you to. Go for you and do what you want.

 

That's when I started working in the technical field because it was something that always interested me and I was just naturally good at it. After just over a year of working in the field I took someone up on an offer to submit my resume for me. I interviewed and got hired. My ten year anniversary with that company is less than a month from now. I still don't have my degree and it hasn't impacted my career one bit.

 

Eventually I'll finish what I started. I'm just in no hurry at this point.

[farnorth]

Here's an interesting article I came across recently:

 

Article

 

Not the "traditional" path to a degree but you can get a good education on your own if you're disciplined. I second those that said do what you want.

[davio]

Here's an interesting article I came across recently:

 

Article

 

Not the "traditional" path to a degree but you can get a good education on your own if you're disciplined. I second those that said do what you want.

So far we've been talking about how a degree will help you, not so much about the benefit of a "real" education. That goes without saying.

[...]

Indeed. There is a huge enormous difference between being book smart/doing well in school and being real world smart. In my experience a lot of school smart doesn't get you very far.

[davio]

School smart doesn't get you very far...just to that piece of paper...and that can get you very far (not by itself but it opens many doors that would otherwise be magnetically sealed...can't even blast your way out (easy reference)).

[...]

What an interesting smell you've discovered.

[Tom Capasso]

I think it's easier (not easy) to put up with college if you have a goal or a preference or an idea of what you'd like to do. That doesn't mean you end up doing that, but once you have the degree, it can open doors. Without that, you will be fumbling around like Tater and Davio. Sometimes that's OK and you discover something you like - and sometimes you end up with debts and not much more (though Davio and Tater probably learned a few things in their time).

 

I studied something I liked, and within five months of my first job I knew I needed to be doing something else. Three years down the road I got into technology and it's been great. The stuff I took in college was also great, so I was very lucky.

 

My son is probably a few phone calls and a project away from his BS, but I don't know that he'll ever finish. He is working in a job he likes very much and probably won't look back. My daughter got an honors BA degree and will graduate with a MA in May. Her plan is to get a PhD. To each their own...

 

Tom

[jeremy c]

My son works at the same place as tater nuts, which we will call Microwave. He's been there 7 years. He did go to college majoring in computer science which was something he wanted to do since 5th grade. He went to a college that had a department which specialized in the kind of computer graphics programming he was doing, the company came on a recruiting trip to his college and walked right into his classroom looking for an up and coming programmer and they hired him right of that class for a summer internship. After the internship, they said "go finish your degree and you will have a job here when you do."

 

He now is moving up the ranks as a developer there.

[moot]

My girl has a degree in geography and doesn't work in the field but, like Rocky says, it opens doors.

I was in and out of college for years. Out of high school I majored in mathematics and got a great education. Later certain career moves sent me back but, like so many others, I ain'ts gots me no degree.

It has never impacted me in any way - lately especially.

I am glad for all the math I took though. It's everything.

 

[getz out]

study your math... key to the universe.

[EddiePlaysBass]

I studied what I wanted to study (languages - more specifically translation) and had a blast doing so. But once I finished and got my degree, I realised that I really did not want to get into that field. And I still don't. In a way I really regret having studied what I did because even though I have the "piece of paper" it really opens less doors than I'd like it to, based on the specialisation I opted for.

 

Ever since I have been contemplating going back to school to study something different and have more doors opened, but I lack the proper motivation to actually go for it. When I read this thread my immediate reaction was "No, stay in school!" but having thought it through a bit, I'm not sure that I stand behind that opinion.

[The Geoff]

I was a lecturer at Glasgow College of Commerce for about 15 years. Socially, I've come across ex-students who didn't finish their courses.

 

To a man, they've all said the same thing in the long run - 'I wish I could go back.'

 

G.

[EddiePlaysBass]

To a man, they've all said the same thing in the long run - 'I wish I could go back.'

 

For me, I really liked my college years and like I said, I had a blast studying and partying and playing bass. Had I known at the time how much free time I had, I'd have spent more of it playing bass, though Would've been a better player than I am now.

 

But my point was - and this is Belgium, so YMMV - that my degree ultimately did not open all that many doors. I disagree with the rest that "any given degree" will open doors. It will open certain ones, but if like me you find out that those are not the ones you want to walk through, are you better of?

[Jode]

I had basically the same experience as Tater, except that I escaped with a degree. My standard college advice to anyone in your situation is twofold:

 

1. Unless you are as certain as you can reasonably be that college is the place for you, DON'T GO. It's a damned expensive place to try to "find yourself." Do that shit out in the real world, where you can actually MAKE money while you figure it out.

 

2. If you are in college, and you feel you're in the wrong major, or at the wrong school, or just not cut out for college at all at this point in your life, LEAVE. This is especially true if you find yourself forced to choose between "my education" on one hand and "what I really wanted to do after college anyway, which is presenting itself as an opportunity right now" on the other. College will always be there, but opportunity is fleeting.

 

College is a place for people who know exactly why they're there, and what they expect to gain from it. If that's not you, there's no shame in walking away - at least, until you figure out what you want.

[DavidMPires]

I was 15 when I droped out of school, to help my folks and co's I couln't care less about school. Today I regret it...I am now wise enough to know what I want. That's why I recently finished some qualifications and am now planning on taking a degree in economics. Probably will start next year.

 

 

[davio]

FWIW, I couldn't disagree more with the "don't bother unless you know exactly what you want to do" sentiment. IME I've found that there are a handful of careers that require specific degrees (medical and law fields come to mind) but the vast majority of others don't care what's on the paper as long as you have the paper. I work in recruiting so I deal with anything from 18-year-olds going into entry-level positions to executives and, short of executive positions, you can get to most any level with or without a degree but the degree will most definitely put you ahead of a candidate with similar experience.

 

In an environment like mine, if you have a hypothetical goal of making 70k/year, you can either get a degree or spend 20+ years working for the company and jump on every promotion you can find.

 

My feelings are that graduate degrees (Master's, PhD's and whatever else you can find) are more for "when you know exactly what you want." An Associate's or Bachelor's degree is a few years of general study with some sort of focus in a particular field. It's more like continued high school with something you're interested thrown in.

 

[butcherNburn]

You already started, which is half that battle. Suffer and make your way through school as fast as you can. It seems like you found other musical inspirations so take that path, change up some courses, and get out of there with a degree as fast as you can.

As far as useful knowledge obtained in college, in most cases, is quite limited. Yes you know how many red cups are in a keg, now what.

 

I didn't get the chance to go to college. When I was about 15, my family hit a rough spot and someone, me, the youngest and most promising (academically) of the 3 kids, had to pick up the slack. While still in H.S., I worked at least 40 hours a week (sometimes as much as 70) in order to pay the bills. Ive had a job since I was 12 (illegally). That continued on after H.S., and when I saw my friends coming home from college, prepared for nothing and asking for me to get them a job as my assistant, I had some real thinking to do. I took on a grueling schedule of working as many hours as I could along with 20 hours of tech school at night for 2+ years, it was tough and I made it through. Now, I do wish I had a degree to put on my resume, but that would be the only value I would have for a few more years in school, and more student loans.

 

[5 string Mike]

My $.02

 

I am 31, and I have an associate's degree in applied science, majoring in Diesel Technology. I earned a full ride scolarship, carried a 3.7 GPA, had perfect attendance, made the Dean's list every term, all that stuff.

 

Then, I graduated, went into the real world with a real job making $7/ hour with a bunch of high school dropouts and under-achievers fixing broken trucks on the side of the road at 3 AM in the middle of February in Michigan. After that, it was 10 years of one lousy dealership after another, not happy at all, broke, stressed out, treated like a peon.

 

But, and this is a big but, that college degree opened up the door to get in the place I am now, where I'm very happy. Now, I do forensic testing on returned parts, prepare data sets, give presentations, and I have a direct impact on saving my company millions of dollars. The college degree plays a part in that, and so does the 10 years of real world experience. It goes hand in hand.

 

The good part of that is now I make OK money. Not great, but ok. The bad part of that is I now see 23 year old kids, straight out of college with a piece of paper bringing in 20-30% more than I do, many of whom I have to train on things. The people with the degree and several years of experience make twice what I do.

 

Now, with 20/20 hindsight, I look back and think 'I wish that I would have worked harder to get a 4 year degree, I could have done it.' Now, I have a wife, 4 kids, one with short term special needs, a mortgage and medical bills. I can't go back and get that degree now. In 5 years or so, I can start down that path, but not now.

 

The moral of the story- Success comes in realizing your potential and doing what you love to do- not from college degrees. It's hard work, drive, dedication, commitment to make yourself better. That being said, in this day and age, realizing your potential will be greatly crippled without some form of higher education. It's part of the drive to better yourself. Learning is a life long experience, not a blur of your twenty-something years. The longer you him and haw about committing to learn, the harder it will be. It's a product of life. You settle down, your commitments are harder to change, before you know it you have a family of your own, and that makes it harder. Not impossible, but harder.

 

Also, it takes patience and perseverence. Most places I have worked are just like you describe in your post. Departments are unorganized, things are stressful, people aren't happy. That's reality. You have to be able to function successfully in that kind of environmnent.

 

So don't give up, but really focus on what drives you. What are you thinking about when you aren't really trying? What I mean is, for me, all throughout my youth and adulthood, I would see a machine or something operate, and think to myself 'that's cool. Why does [x] do that when [y] does this? What keeps [z] from happening? How does that work?' My dad used to get frustrated at me in my adolescence because I was always ripping bikes, toys, everything apart to see how it worked. But, he told me, what surprised him the most is that I could put stuff back together and it would work just as good or better than it did before. I still have that with me. That is part of what makes me successful at my job. The other part was learning what I needed to learn to be the best I could- in my case, Diesel Technology. That's why I want to know how to fix my own bass gear, how it all works together, etc. [side note- after reading the theory threads and studying it more, I am starting to do the same thing with theory. I want to know all the inner workings and how it fits together]

 

Bottom line, there is no easy answer. Don't get a degree in something for the sake of a degree, get it because that's where your heart is at. It should be a tool that you are going to use to be the best you can be, not because it sounds impressive to have it. A hgher education could mean the difference between a decent gig and an awesome gig. You need every advantage you can get. It very well could be the difference on whether you are looking at the glass ceiling from above or below.

 

Good luck

[Rocky McDougall]

It has been said that some belong in college and some don't. That is true. Also, don't go unless you are sure about what you want to do for the rest of your life. I thik it is very rare for a teenager to know that. I do think we (In the USA) should raise the level of trade schools and make graduating from one more respectable. Good and enjoyable livings can be earned being a mechanic, a plumber or electrition, and it should not be looked down upon by the "Elite" I have a PHD/Master's Degree in mechanical engineering but I did not earn it in a college, I earned it through 50 years in the business.

Rocky

[davio]

But, and this is a big but...

You're a big but.

 

Now, I do forensic testing on returned parts, prepare data sets, give presentations, and I have a direct impact on saving my company millions of dollars.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[moot]

When I was growing up you had 3 choices upon graduating high school.

 

1> College/Tradeschool

2> Military

3> Gas station attendant

 

If you were lucky, your family had tuition money (mine didn't) or you won a scholorship (I did). A lot of the guys I grew up with chose the military - usually at the request of their parents or due to personal troubles. Like knocking up your girlfriend. Two of my buddies went that route.

Today it seems that parents coddle their kids and decide to let them figure it out by themselves. I believe this is dangerous and produces aimless slackers. My son is 12 and knows what he wants to be. Sure, that could change but at least he is looking that far ahead in stead of being 18 and looking forward to Tuesday at midnight when he gets off work at the local Pizza Hut to go get loaded and play Xbox.

 

[davio]

You're an aimless slacker. But then, so am I.

[rizzo9247]

Very diverse thread.

 

Last year, 85 percent of adults age 25 and over had completed at least high school, an all-time high. Also in 2003, 27 percent of adults age 25 and over had a college degree, another record.

While I imagine both of these numbers have increased over the past 6 years, but if you have a college degree you are probably still in the minority. As mentioned earlier, more opportunities will most likely be available to you, depending on the field, with a college degree, simple as that.

 

As I work for The Man, more education = more pay, so yay college!

[Eric VB]

My day job requires a bachelors. You cannot even apply without one.

 

I have friends in "technology". One was a stewardess and the other studied to be a priest for a while. Getting into that field (and staying there) has more to do with your actual abilities than having a degree. (So they tell me.) There's certainly some logic to that kind of thinking.

 

A college degree is definitely not for everyone.

 

I know someone who chose not to go to college and that was the best choice for him. Unfortunately he still hasn't been able to figure out what he wants to do for a career. So non-college kids can have just as hard a time finding their niche as college kids.

 

And I know another guy who wasn't ready for college right after high school. He worked for a while before deciding to go back full-time a few years later.

 

Catman, it sounds like you are in a jazz studies degree program at a traditional college. (Not a music school like Berklee.) Is that right?

 

From my experience I don't see how touring with a Celtic rock group is going to help you get into a jazz group later on. It seems like those kinds of opportunities go more to students/graduates in jazz studies programs. (Well, I never see offers like those on CL.) While it certainly sounds like a fun gig I don't see how it can do anything but derail you from your current goal.

 

You probably don't have enough life experience yet to understand this, but try. If you go off and tour for a year you will become a different person than you are today. Will that person want to go back to college? Or maybe a more exciting opportunity will present itself at that point and you'll be off for another year. And so on.

 

Time has a funny way of changing us and choices you make today will influence you tomorrow in ways you cannot imagine.

 

Sometimes that's good; sometimes it's bad. (Have you seen the movie The Butterfly Effect yet?)

 

Now, I'll let you in on a little secret. Sometimes a college program may have "weeder courses". Essentially these "weed out" the students who either aren't cut out for the field or aren't willing to put in the work. It certainly sounds like the "stressful courses" are testing your resolve whether or not they are true weeder courses. I can't guarantee that next year will be any better but it does look like they've put an obstacle in your path and you have to decide whether to go over it or choose a different path entirely.

 

Of course it is also true that not every college is a good fit for every student. If what you're sensing is correct and the college you're at is truly "disorganized", then maybe transferring to another college is a good idea. I'd suggest looking into it before taking the plunge. Not all of your credits will transfer and it may set you behind.

 

Just a few more things to think about. I promise.

 

Chances are you'll live a long, full life. Maybe 100 years the way things are going. Compared to that 4 or even 5 years is just a drop in the bucket. If you bite the bullet and get your degree over with now you can have the rest of your life to look forward to without having to wonder "what if?".

 

Then there's the brass ring to consider. When it comes up you either grab it or you never get a second chance at it. Luck and timing. Risk and opportunity. Is the rock band the turning point in your life that launches your career? Who knows. But they're sure not going to wait around for you to graduate.

 

 

Personally I would stay in school and graduate. Even if it doesn't bring any job opportunities your way you will have your degree forever. Nobody can ever take it away from you. You can lose your wealth, health and family, but you will always have that piece of paper. And you will have something that not everybody else has (or is able to obtain). If you do transfer, do it now. Don't take any time off. Once you drop the ball it's very hard to pick it up again. And I don't see the rock band as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you can't pass up.