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[alcohol]

There are some things you can prove and some you can't. You can't prove God exists or doesn't. So, even though I don't believe in God, I can't prove He doesn't exist, so I feel my opinion about his existence is just my opinion. Aesthetics are essentially subjective, so opinions are roughly equal. In some matters some opinions are just wrong. The opinion that the Holocaust didn't occur is simply wrong and it doesn't deserve to be thought of as just another opinion. In political matters, though opinions differ, like the Holocaust opinion, some just don't deserve the equivalent respect. In discussing politics, characterizing an opinion is part of exchange of ideas. A practice as old as history. Now if I went to some social gathering and I wanted to keep things from getting unsocial, I'd probably refrain from challenging someone's opinions aggressively. Here on the SSS, I think it's just fine to be aggressive. Though even here some judgement needs to be considered. I don't think characterizing Bush supporters as apologists or whatever is extreme. After all, government officials of this administration don't lack the temerity to suggest people that disagree with them are unpatriotic.

[GZsound]

[b]Originally posted by alcohol: The point is that mortgage rates are going up as a consequence of the deficit taking money away from the money supply despite the really low prime rate. [/b] Alchy, alchy... As a mortgage broker, I can only say you are so wrong as to be mind numbingly stupid. To blame mortgage interest rates on the deficit is not even worthy of a reply. To blame the "high" mortgage rates on the Bush Administration is so totally silly I'm surprised you even thought of it. Usually, there is a small ring of truth to your rant so it appears you might actually have a clue, but in this case you are so wrong as to be ludicrous. Current 30 year fixed rate mortgage rates (I get the rate sheets five times a day) are between 6 and 6.125%. Lower rates than we have had in thirty years. One month ago the 30 year fixed rate was 4.875% nearly a 50 year low. How can this be possible using your logic that the deficit is causing high interest rates? Wasn't there a deficit a month ago? I strongly suggest you continue your education and learn the relationship between the Fed rate, the Prime rate and mortgage rates. I also suggest you start learning a little bit about the bond markets and their relationship with mortages. I really strongly suggest you stop blaming non issue (higher interest rates) on the Bush administration. As was stated before, just throwing shit against a wall to see what sticks is starting to get old. Especially since your partisan mantra is so dreadfully wrong. Being conservative or liberal has nothing to do with this issue, you are simply making up nonsense to preach to the choir.

[GZsound]

[b]Originally posted by Anifa: GZsound, As far as my comment about Arnold S., I don't have any idea of the policies that he is campaigning to support, nor was I even paying attention to what political party he was engaged with. With all the other things going on in America that are happening in comparison with written facts about the take over of Hitler, it was only natural for red flags to fly when Arnie stepped up to the mound.[/b] As I said, trying to make some connection to the fact Arnold is from Austria and thus somehow aligned with Hitler is beyond simple good taste and beyond mere prejudice. [b]I studied German Culture while learning to speak the language. As German language was normally taught in the HIGH form(E. Berlin was still in existence while I was in school), and not Low German (W. Berlin); students were taught to study German history and their cultures as well as the division of the country and policies. Austria remained under the reign of the E. Berlin government and was kept in seclusion from liberated nations. Although the Berlin Wall has been destroyed, much of the separation of German territory continues. I really don't care what your opinion of me is because I have my own opinions and I'm not inclined to be hand-fed the poisoness babble of New World Order Leaders.[/b] Wow... Arnold a New World Order Leader. Arnold the Nazi. You studied German history and thus are qualified to make Arnold a Nazi. Sorry, I studied German in college too, well actually I studied one of the female German students..thus I am qualified to disagree with you. Here is your logic: Al Sharpton is black. I have studied black history. The Blacks speak High Rap and Low Rap and the Black Panthers were and are a violent group. Thus Al Sharpton is a Black Panther. He wants to Kill Whitey. Don't vote for Al for president. Unbelievable... and sad.

[alcohol]

GZ You got me. Mortgage rates were at there lowest in a 40 or 50 year history last month. Neverthless deficits and the prime rate along with economic expectations interact to affect the bond market and mortgage rates. Mortgage rates and interest rates are rising. "The rates on 30-year fixed mortgages are now the highest in nine months. The average interest rate today is 6.26 percent, according to a weekly survey of the 100 largest lenders by Bankrate.com. The lowest point was 5.28 percent in the week ended June 11. The increase makes a huge difference to borrowers, who had become so accustomed to falling rates in the last 18 months that many people refinanced more than once." http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/content_syndication/local_news/6422769.htm ---------------- Rising interest rates are tied to bond rates which are affected by deficits: "The sharp and swift decline in the bond market is to blame. "When bond prices drop, that has the effect of increasing bond yields -- the interest that bonds pay investors. .......... Traders are also focusing on two factors that tend to increase rates: If the economy is getting back on track, that would raise the demand for money. Plus, with the growing federal budget deficit, traders fear a flood of new government bonds will be issued at higher rates in order to keep the government running." http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/content_syndication/local_news/6422769.htm This report also indicates that rising interest rates seem to be ending the refinancing boom that has put money into consumers pockets. Which to me points to an economic policy that promised much but is delivering little. Indeed causing problems. We've had the lowest interest rates in 50 years and yet we have not rebounded in employment and have a feeble growth rate of 2.4%. Yes the author above states that the economy is getting back on track and some economic indicators have turned positive. At this point the success of Bush economic policies are a matter of opinion. We'll just have to wait and see whose opinion is right.

[GZsound]

Well, I'll give you this. You are starting to get it and you are certainly a fast learner. However, continue and see exactly what the prime rate is. Explain why the fed lowered the short term interest rate and mortgage rates went up. (I have to explain that all the time to my clients who think their new loan will be at a lower rate). The "deflation" comments by Mr. Greenspan triggered the bond buy that reduced the interest rates a month ago. The have now recovered to more realistic levels. If you bother to check the facts you will see that refinances are down around 24%, however, new home sales and purchase money firsts and seconds are still running at record levels. New home sales mean jobs. The fact the economy is growing at "only" 2.4% is proof the economy is growing. You want the economy to fail, you want the employment levels to continue to grow and it just isn't going to happen. I believe the term you would love to use is Stagflation. Not happening. George Bush inherited a declining economy and has had unbelievable problems to overcome..just wait. Start checking historic trends in economic growth, employment etc. and then add in the economic blow we took because of the 9/11 attacks and life is not all doom and gloom. Check out reasons why the bond market increases or decreases and you will see better why mortgage interest rates fluctuate. Also, keeping the interbank funds rate, the fed rate and the prime rate low stimulates the economy as well. Zero interest car loans, low interest credit cards, etc. all help to get consumers more confidence, buying more product and thus creating more jobs. Pretty much a textbook example of how to make an economy better. The California recall is a lot about the state government programs that all operate counter to this theory of how to grow an economy. Davis is sleeping with the government unions and pretty much gave away the farm in addition to raising taxes and fees. Not a good idea in these times.. Keep up the homework..I feel you are almost there.