burningbusch Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Hey Mac guys, chill. J+ is looking to possibly run the QL Pianos. These are resource hogs. I could not get them to run decently on my G5 Dual 2.0 Ghz, which is a pretty good performer. The QL Pianos run fine on my Mac Pro 2.8 Ghz 8-core, 10GB RAM, 4TB 7,200RPM HDs although I have to dedicate a couple of the processors to it in order for it to run without glitching in Protools. These pianos take up a mere 263GB of HD space. The Play engine is optimized for 64-bit operation and will take advantage of up to 128 GBs in 64-bit mode under Vista Ultimate. I really don't know how well these pianos would run on my MacBook Dual 2.4Ghz, 4 GB RAM, 250GB HD. Ultimate performance is going to be had with a tower not a laptop. What J+ has speced out looks like it will run the QL Pianos just fine. I would recommend a medium performance graphics card. I've always run mid-range graphics cards and never had issues. I don't play games or do 3D graphic rendering. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Fair enough and Mr. Busch is definitely a very good resource to help solve this riddle. I was figuring J+ was going for a new gig rig and I think the Mac platform has more going for it overall for gigging. If this is a very particular piece of software that works better on PC and he is doing a home studio play, then by all means follow the path you have put forward. Even though I'm a Mac convert, I am still just dipping my feet in terms of live gigging with a laptop. I highly prefer hardware over software for live gigs. Regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I just got one of the new Alum Macbooks... while there is a lot of negativity surrounding the lack of firewire, my needs are sufficed by USB2.0 Really love using it... still have a XP machine but everything just seems to gel better with the Macbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 If you are in a habit of making adjustments or moving windows while the DAW is running you need to make sure you have a decent graphics card. Otherwise when you move a window you can get static and cut-outs in your audio. I still can't believe this would be a problem unless there was a *lot* of graphics going on and some relatively bad thread/priority programming... But to be honest I'm not an expert on this because I haven't used a PC based DAW since about 2000, hence why I'm getting my feet wet again with the Macbook + Logic Audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 All I can say is that graphics are the single most common cause of crashes, hangs, and slowdowns on my G4 iMac. I can often keep a plug-in from crashing just by being cleevr with what windows are forward, hidden, etc. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Why not get a Mac? Why get a Mac? I get tired of ignorant people assuming that a Mac is better, period. Both platforms have their advantages, and only fools think the questions has been answered, once, for everyone, with a 3-letter answer. (Or with an answer beginning with W, which would also be inane.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Something to keep in mind about VISTA: It mirrors the memory used by your graphics card in main memory. So, if you have a card with 512M of graphics memory, deduct that amount of memory from your system total to find out how much you actually get to use. This is a real pain for the gaming industry. In any case, the system you're specifying would be a rocket for audio. Audio doesn't need a hot system. We've been doing pretty well for at least 5 years, even on systems running single-core, less than 1GHz. Sure, every program takes more these days, but if the *system* is well engineered, even a low-end notebook should work fine. And if the system is not well engineered, the best parts won't work well at all. That's the biggest argument in favor of the Mac: fewer choices means less variability. It works for others, so it'll work for you. (Clearly, the socialist's choice more than the libertarian's! -- JUST KIDDING! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 Thanks guys, This is the build I am considering: HP d5100t atx : Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz) 12MB L2 cache 8GB DDR2 dual channel SDRAM (4x2048) two 500GB hard drives (7200rpm) 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300, DVI-I, VGA adapter,HDMI E-MU 1212m PCI Sound Card 15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, audio HP w2408h 24in diagonal widescreen BrightView LCD Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit) LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive Full-sized ATX chassis and motherboard. Memory card reader: 15-in-1 Total memory slots: 4 DIMM Ports: 6 USB (2 front, 4 back), 2 IEEE 1394 (1 front, 1 back) Total slots: 1 PCIe (x16 graphics), 4 PCIe (x1), 2 PCI Power supply: 460 watts Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Why not get a Mac? Why get a Mac? I get tired of ignorant people assuming that a Mac is better, period. That's me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 LOL +1 "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I just can't not say this. I've never had a moment when I found a Windows-based machine was better than a Mac. Even those rare instances when I had to use a Windows machine because whatever I was doing didn't work on a Mac (DRM-locked live streaming of Champ Car races, and testing web sites in Internet Explorer/6 and /7), it was only because it worked, and it was still a PITA. God forbid something didn't work and I had to fix it, that's always a nightmare. And I'm probably an alpha geek, the guy people ask to fix their computers. I see no advantage to Windows. I don't consider being forced to use a different tool an advantage. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Why not get a Mac? Why get a Mac? I get tired of ignorant people assuming that a Mac is better, period. Both platforms have their advantages, and only fools think the questions has been answered, once, for everyone, with a 3-letter answer. (Or with an answer beginning with W, which would also be inane.) I have used Windows in a professional capacity for years and got a Mac recently.. they both have their great points... but the whole virus/spyware, installation, dll hell, registry stuff really hurts Windows.. I really wish MS would totally revamp Windows completely rather than offering GUI changes. I don't say this as someone who is ignorant or a Mac fanboy (some things on OS X seem really archaic or needless to me), I've been a software developer, scholar (PhD), for a long time now... Developing in a Windows environment has become extremely painful... I am enforced by my employers to work with Windows for purely political reasons.. I have pleaded with them to work in Linux as I mostly work with Java and Eclipse/MDSD but its to no avail as sometimes companies have special links and incentives from MS... but its the main platform purely for economic reasons and legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 This ignorant person just got a *three letter word for a computer* about 8 months ago and have felt liberated from Windows. Like many others, I use a Windows computer all day at work and still have 2 of them at home. I find the *xxx* OS to be easier to use, cleaner, faster, free from ads/spyware and simply more enjoyable. I plan to replace my other 2 Windows computers with either iMacs or Mac laptops within the next year. Regards, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Good for you Eric, for the record I don't find you ignorant... I can only assume Jeff was in a bad mood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 15-in-1 memory card readerHoly crap - there are 15 different common types of memory cards?!?!? A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Why not get a Mac? Why get a Mac? I get tired of ignorant people assuming that a Mac is better, period. Both platforms have their advantages, and only fools think the questions has been answered, once, for everyone, with a 3-letter answer. (Or with an answer beginning with W, which would also be inane.) As a former Windows user and happy convert, I can say with TOTAL certainty that if you were to try a Mac for 2 months you'd never look back. In Jazz+ case I'd argue that a comparable MacPro would be too costly as a private purchase, but if money (or cracked software) is not an issue you'd be crazy not to get a Mac. local: Korg Nautilus 73 | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Having used both - I have to admit that Mac tends to be a bit better for most music applications. But you can't overlook the benefits of the sheer economies of scale with a PC. Much more/cheaper software/hardware/support. And if everybody had a Mac, they would have the same spyware/virus problems. Hackers develop for PC because that's what everybody has. There is nothing magic about a mac that prevents attacks. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 There is nothing magic about a mac that prevents attacks. Exactly, and if y'all would notice, learjeff did mention that blind windows devotion is just as bad. I use nothing but Macs. I used to be a bit of a zealot, but now I understand that the only real good reason I have for using Macs and nothing else is that I've use nothing but Apple computers since 1979.... A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 I don't think I can get a Mac with the horsepower of the build I am considering for the same sort price of $1,750 can I? HP d5100t atx (~ $1,750): Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz) 12MB L2 cache 8GB RAM DDR2 dual channel SDRAM (4x2048) 1 TB hard drive (7200rpm) 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300, DVI-I, VGA adapter,HDMI E-MU 1212m PCI Sound Card 15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, audio HP w2408h 24in LCD monitor, 1920 x 1200 res., BrightView (EXCELLENT) Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit) LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive Full-sized ATX chassis and motherboard. Memory card reader: 15-in-1 Total memory slots: 4 DIMM Ports: 6 USB (2 front, 4 back), 2 IEEE 1394 (1 front, 1 back) Total slots: 1 PCIe (x16 graphics), 4 PCIe (x1), 2 PCI Power supply: 460 watts Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Having used both - I have to admit that Mac tends to be a bit better for most music applications. But you can't overlook the benefits of the sheer economies of scale with a PC. Much more/cheaper software/hardware/support. And if everybody had a Mac, they would have the same spyware/virus problems. Hackers develop for PC because that's what everybody has. There is nothing magic about a mac that prevents attacks. Yeah I kinda agree with that... though the way windows applications tend to embed themselves across your system in a myriad of ways (dlls, registries, et al) tends to make things very abstract and obscure for Windows... I remember the Windows guy behind this strategy making a public apology in one of his presentations... first slide was "Sorry we got it wrong..".. but alas its too far down the road to change now... Now, maybe Mac programs also do that too (this is really the first week I've ever had a Mac so I'm no expert)... I guess some programs have to relate to one another in some way so maybe the problem still persists.. but at least for now I love the idea of adding and deleting programs via folders... One thing I will say at this point is that there is something of a myth about "Macs never crashing"... I've had the Ableton demo crash out a few times this week and expect Logic to do the same... though the OS X part seems very stable... So yeah theres plenty of bullshit from both sides.. but I don't like those kind of rude outbursts from people... it just causes a mess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I don't think I can get a Mac with the horsepower of the build I am considering for the same sort price of $1,750 can I? It would cost a lot of dough thats for sure... I think only a Mac Pro would be able to achieve that level of expandability and spec... I'm using a 2.4 Ghz Macbook (5400 rpm drive et al) but I'm only planning to use Logic Audio and some basic instruments... not really thinking about those huge GB piano libraries at this juncture.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I don't think I can get a Mac with the horsepower of the build I am considering for the same sort price of $1,750 can I? HP d5100t atx (~ $1,750): Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz) 12MB L2 cache 8GB RAM DDR2 dual channel SDRAM (4x2048) 1 TB hard drive (7200rpm) 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300, DVI-I, VGA adapter,HDMI E-MU 1212m PCI Sound Card 15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, audio HP w2408h 24in LCD monitor, 1920 x 1200 res., BrightView (EXCELLENT) Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit) LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive Full-sized ATX chassis and motherboard. Memory card reader: 15-in-1 Total memory slots: 4 DIMM Ports: 6 USB (2 front, 4 back), 2 IEEE 1394 (1 front, 1 back) Total slots: 1 PCIe (x16 graphics), 4 PCIe (x1), 2 PCI Power supply: 460 watts No, never. A MacPro equivalent would start at $ 4,099 and that's without a screen or the baffling card-reader. Good thing, it would also be without Windows! Enjoy your new PC, Jazz+! [As an afterthought: it's only the 8GB RAM that necessitates the MacPro, the other specs are pretty much like a $1799 iMac, except for the hard drive and b----y card reader.] local: Korg Nautilus 73 | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 You might want to look into those new media-friendly hp computers. There's even talk that they are going to start offering their own Unix-based OS fairly soon. Some of us think it is a revival of something they had back in the 90;s. I use Windows and Linux, and sometimes Mac, at work. At home, since I have a PPC Mac, only Mac. Macs are expensive, which is why I still haven't upgraded from a G4 iMac. Apple keeps making bad decisions, thus pishing back my upgrade. I take upgrades serious as it isn't chump change, so it has to last five years or preferably eight. I'm not rich enough to play their games. Most of my core apps are Mac-only, and in fact I picked the Mac based on which apps I thought looked the most intuitive and efficient in workflow. Also to help my job skills and resume. For others, I recommend making the computer decision based on a combination of app preferences, budget, long-term plans, and how much you think you're going to invest in app software and plug-ins and how that might tie you into one platform or another. The truth of the matter is, both Apple and Microsoft, and associated Windows-based hardware vendors, are racing in a direction that is far removed from the needs of most audio and video professionals. This is a BIG problem. But Linux, great as it is for server work and certain other things, is a long ways off from providing an option for general purpose home/office computing and multimedia work. It's great for embedded devices. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I don't think I can get a Mac with the horsepower of the build I am considering for the same sort price of $1,750 can I? snip No, never. A MacPro equivalent would start at $ 4,099 and that's without a screen or the baffling card-reader. Good thing, it would also be without Windows! Enjoy your new PC, Jazz+! [As an afterthought: it's only the 8GB RAM that necessitates the MacPro, the other specs are pretty much like a $1799 iMac, except for the hard drive and b----y card reader.] I thought that at first then noticed the Quad Core... I think Quad Core for iMac is gonna be the next thing from Apple, I'd also think the next iMac would be more expandable in terms of RAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I thought another nice thing about the Apple was the fact Logic Studio was made by Apple only for Apple... By the way, many people have got OS X working on non Apple machines... if you google for Hackintosh you will come across all manner of people who are running OS X on DELL machines for example... (I should add that I don't recommend doing this if you are of the faint hearted!!!!) My guess is that OS X will eventually branch out to other machines eventually (I believe DELL approached Apple about this sometime ago), and then it'll be just as much a target for virus makers as Windows is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 One thing I will say at this point is that there is something of a myth about "Macs never crashing"... I've had the Ableton demo crash out a few times this week and expect Logic to do the same... though the OS X part seems very stable... That's what people mean by "Macs never crashing." More often than not, the only thing that crashes is the app, not the OS. And you don't have to restart just because one stupid app crashed. But I won't lie and say Mac OS X never crashes. It is pretty rare, though. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 My guess is that OS X will eventually branch out to other machines eventually (I believe DELL approached Apple about this sometime ago), and then it'll be just as much a target for virus makers as Windows is... This will never happen. A) Apple makes money selling hardware. 2) By controlling both the hardware and the software, Apple controls the whole experience, making everything work together. Some people don't like companies having that much control, but Steve Jobs won't give it up. He killed the first generation of Mac clones when he took over the company, and so far, history has proven him right. Apple's business model has been profitable for years, so why change it? At least, that's the going philosophy in Cupertino. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I hope so Joe... I'll be glad to be part of the 1% share of the market, or whatever it is, if it means I don't have to mess around with the AV crap I did in windows... (though saying that you can obviate much of that by using multi OS partitions in Windows and removing a lot of the AV/internet stuff in the music partition.... though not sure how disciplined I would be if I did that) mind you the Linux OS stuff looks pretty cool... just a shame none of the top shelf DAW companies have made anything available for it (yet)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I don't think I can get a Mac with the horsepower of the build I am considering for the same sort price of $1,750 can I? HP d5100t atx (~ $1,750): Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz) 12MB L2 cache 8GB RAM DDR2 dual channel SDRAM (4x2048) 1 TB hard drive (7200rpm) 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300, DVI-I, VGA adapter,HDMI E-MU 1212m PCI Sound Card 15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, audio HP w2408h 24in LCD monitor, 1920 x 1200 res., BrightView (EXCELLENT) Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit) LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive Full-sized ATX chassis and motherboard. Memory card reader: 15-in-1 Total memory slots: 4 DIMM Ports: 6 USB (2 front, 4 back), 2 IEEE 1394 (1 front, 1 back) Total slots: 1 PCIe (x16 graphics), 4 PCIe (x1), 2 PCI Power supply: 460 watts That looks like a groovy machine A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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